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Post by DaPatriots on Apr 20, 2024 11:47:32 GMT -5
Drake has the tools. That's why he was my early favorite. I discovered upon further review that his decision making is suspect and in need of a TON OF WORK. And he maye (pun intended) never get there because it is a mental trait of antsyness (for lack of a better term/ probably not a real word lol) Its VERY HARD to coach POISE. You either have it or you don't! Right Mac Jones? Edit: Did you watch the 2nd half? I watched both videos. Based on Colt's comments, Penix is a much better QB.
Asked be Gruden: Penix or JJM?
Colt was almost embarrassed to admit: "if you look at the tape, I got Penix."
People seem desperate to anoint JJM and Drake the better QB, but when real NFL QBs analyze the tape (I've watched tons of tape myself), there is no comparison. Penix is the better QB in almost every way except scrambling.
One of the things people are afraid of about Penix is his unorthodox throwing style and inconsistent feet (they all have inconsistent feet). If I'm his NFL coach, I look to Aarong Rodgers and his development.
Rodgers had a similar flick-of-the-wrist throwing style coming out of Cal.
Slamming QB's for being different has always been a favorite pass time for talking heads. Kosar used to be slammed for side arms. Cunningham and Steve Young used to get slammed for scrambling. Elway and Doug Williams were slammed for throwing too hard. They just keep doing what they do until the criticism has to die.
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Post by texaspat on Apr 20, 2024 12:11:08 GMT -5
I wish that the Patriots had rolled dice and parted with a late round pick to acquire Justin Fields - just as the Steelers did. That would have made a trade for the 3rd overall pick easier to swallow. Not me. He’ll be available next year for nothing. I don’t see it with this guy. I'm of the opinion that Fields has the raw talent to succeed - certainly more than McEnroe Jones had. He was stuck on a bad team in Chicago. Time will tell.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 20, 2024 16:53:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't if I believed in Daniels or Maye (and I believe in Daniels) but this would be a pretty damn good haul if you didn't believe in either QB. YES! YES! YES! I definitely would! I am not fixated on any one QB this year. I think the top 6 QBs are all good enough to be coached up into a top 10 QB. If there was one year in 20 when you could be confident about taking QB4 or QB5 in Rd 1, 2024 is it. This will not happen again. That haul of picks will guarantee you have at least two Rd 1 picks in the two subsequent years. That is a lot of ammo in the next couple of years to course correct and reload for any misses, without having to tank a season for higher picks. If you hit it on all picks, then you should be in position for another dynasty. I have changed my mind since posting the above. Given how many teams have strong motivation to draft a QB, I have concluded that the risk that trading out of P3 leaves them empty-handed (of a QB) is too high to take. I would rather they take the risk of reaching for a QB than the risk of ending up with none of the top 6.
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Post by wonderdrums on Apr 20, 2024 17:01:08 GMT -5
I would not do this trade.
If they decide to trade back, they should not fall out of the top 10 unless they’re getting 3 firsts in return. Even then Im not sure. Something about #13 pick doesn’t seem all that valuable.
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Post by fisher on Apr 20, 2024 17:16:40 GMT -5
I would not do this trade. If they decide to trade back, they should not fall out of the top 10 unless they’re getting 3 firsts in return. Even then Im not sure. Something about #13 pick doesn’t seem all that valuable. Swapping 1st rd picks…additional 3 1st s..1 2nd or 3rd…. But you still need a quality QB.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 20, 2024 17:55:41 GMT -5
I would not do this trade. If they decide to trade back, they should not fall out of the top 10 unless they’re getting 3 firsts in return. Even then Im not sure. Something about #13 pick doesn’t seem all that valuable. If they trade down, teams sitting at P11-P13 could still move up ahead of them; then there are SEA and LAR. LAC will be open for business. Harbaugh, I believe, will want to both acquire a WR and at the same time beef up the interior OL. Trading down to P11-P13 could be the first transaction towards acquiring WR4 (Probably Brian Thomas) and OG1 or OC1. A move like that could cascade into a series of moves. NYG could be open for business. I am almost sure that CHI's P9 is also availiable to the highest bidder.
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Post by thehub on Apr 20, 2024 18:00:59 GMT -5
What if Minn offers a great haul and tosses in 27 year old Sam Darnold?
For the “build the team out first” posters that would be a smart move.
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Post by muzwell on Apr 20, 2024 18:09:46 GMT -5
I watched both videos. Based on Colt's comments, Penix is a much better QB.
Asked be Gruden: Penix or JJM?
Colt was almost embarrassed to admit: "if you look at the tape, I got Penix."
People seem desperate to anoint JJM and Drake the better QB, but when real NFL QBs analyze the tape (I've watched tons of tape myself), there is no comparison. Penix is the better QB in almost every way except scrambling.
One of the things people are afraid of about Penix is his unorthodox throwing style and inconsistent feet (they all have inconsistent feet). If I'm his NFL coach, I look to Aarong Rodgers and his development.
Rodgers had a similar flick-of-the-wrist throwing style coming out of Cal.
Slamming QB's for being different has always been a favorite pass time for talking heads. Kosar used to be slammed for side arms. Cunningham and Steve Young used to get slammed for scrambling. Elway and Doug Williams were slammed for throwing too hard. They just keep doing what they do until the criticism has to die. I don’t get worked up about mechanics. Nor footwork. I don’t care. And I don’t know enough about it to comment. Does the ball get where it needs to be when it needs to be there? I mean Phillip Rivers passed for a ton of yards and it looked like he was training with shotputters. Whatever. I do, however, care about injuries. I don’t want the Ras-I Dowling or Damien Easley of quarterbacks. You get hurt you tend to keep getting hurt. Age is a factor, too. I think I read somewhere that Penix is 6 months younger than Trevor Lawrence? I don’t know, maybe that’s irrelevant but it seems like it should be a concern. At the end of the first round or on day 2, maybe not as big of a deal.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 20, 2024 22:09:31 GMT -5
Not me. He’ll be available next year for nothing. I don’t see it with this guy. I'm of the opinion that Fields has the raw talent to succeed - certainly more than McEnroe Jones had. He was stuck on a bad team in Chicago. Time will tell. It's possible that he was too raw when he was drafted -. i.e., the time needed to develop him is too long for a coach who has 2 years to prove his worth by winning, else he'd lose his job on year 3. He could end up being another one of those QBs who went to the NFL before having thrown enough passes in college. He only threw 618 passes.
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Post by CWTB on Apr 20, 2024 22:37:52 GMT -5
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 20, 2024 22:41:25 GMT -5
Justin Fields wouldn't start over Jacoby Brissett, not unless the team was actively trying to lose.
Fields can possibly improve, but he'll never become a superior passer. He'll be a one/two/look and run QB at best, could become pretty good at that if he keeps improving. But he needs to stop throwing to the other team, and carrying the ball like a loaf of bread when he runs. He's a turnover machine.
If Jameis Winston could stop turning it over he'd be Warren Moon, if Mac Jones could stop turning it over he'd be Kirk Cousins... neither can. Wish in one hand, and sht in the other... tell me which fills up first?
After his rookie deal finishes, Fields hopefully lands somewhere talented and where he's a scheme fit. He can take time and hopefully become a better passer and protect the ball. Maybe in Pittsburgh, or Baltimore maybe, Harbaugh might be able to straighten him out.
But he wouldn't be smart for a team like the Patriots who should 100% draft a QB, and have a better veteran bridge QB already in Brissett. You can't develop or get all these guys snaps, there aren't that many snaps to go round in camp and preseason. Develop the rookie.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 20, 2024 23:02:10 GMT -5
As for this trade, I think this team could be good really fast, especially if they're smart and get a left tackle now, also a QB who could eventually take over... one, two in any order.. but preferably QB first.
That's two draft picks, leaving six picks left, a bunch of UDFA options and currently league leading cap space to get weapons and best players available.
If the QB you want isn't there at #3, move back 2-3 spots and take the next best QB, also a left tackle with the extra ammo you just acquired. Then load up on weapons... simple.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 21, 2024 0:05:24 GMT -5
Based on data from that site MI Rush attempts per game = 37.5 (61.0) Pass attempts per game = 24.0 UNC Rush attemps per game = 38.8 (51.9%) Pass attenpts per game = 36.0 Also, MI had 7 players at the combine.
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Post by garytx on Apr 21, 2024 8:02:22 GMT -5
Nix really bugs me. How can a guy with his numbers be ranked so low. Leadership skills apparently. I don't see how one can ignore those numbers though. I would think the team had confidence in him to deliver. I don't get this leadership stuff.
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Post by DaPatriots on Apr 21, 2024 8:31:28 GMT -5
Nix really bugs me. How can a guy with his numbers be ranked so low. Leadership skills apparently. I don't see how one can ignore those numbers though. I would think the team had confidence in him to deliver. I don't get this leadership stuff. Mind boggling. He dwarfs JJM, Caleb and Drake in efficiency/ overall production. Not Even Talked About
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Post by garytx on Apr 21, 2024 8:42:16 GMT -5
Nix really bugs me. How can a guy with his numbers be ranked so low. Leadership skills apparently. I don't see how one can ignore those numbers though. I would think the team had confidence in him to deliver. I don't get this leadership stuff. Mind boggling. He dwarfs JJM, Caleb and Drake in efficiency/ overall production. Not Even Talked About Yep. It's been bugging me to no end. The guys got the numbers but something holds him back. I've heard leadership is his downfall but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The production seems to refute that. The team seemed to be behind him. Out of all the QBs in the draft he is the least one talked about in general.
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Post by carawaydj on Apr 21, 2024 8:46:13 GMT -5
Nix really bugs me. How can a guy with his numbers be ranked so low. Leadership skills apparently. I don't see how one can ignore those numbers though. I would think the team had confidence in him to deliver. I don't get this leadership stuff. Ask Bailey Zappe.
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Post by garytx on Apr 21, 2024 8:51:07 GMT -5
Nix really bugs me. How can a guy with his numbers be ranked so low. Leadership skills apparently. I don't see how one can ignore those numbers though. I would think the team had confidence in him to deliver. I don't get this leadership stuff. Ask Bailey Zappe. Zappe came from a small program and was drafted in later rounds for that reason. Nix did well against opponents in the PAC10. Big difference. His numbers meet or exceed those are being considered in the first round who played at the same level.
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Post by patsfan2007 on Apr 21, 2024 9:16:52 GMT -5
When I look at the tape of these QBs, sometimes I think the talking heads have their QB rankings backwards.
History doesn't lie. It is what it is. As I've said before: Your probability of landing a good QB is effectively unrelated to where you draft your QB in the first round (except #1).
Every year we get caught up in the emotions of "being right" that we think the QB we like at #3 is much better than the QB we draft at #11 or later. We have to accept that we are not any better than the GMs from the previous 50 years.
It doesn't matter how "convinced" we are about a Drake Maye or JJM or Daniels at #3. Our opinions don't alter reality.
Trade down and take Bo Nix or Penix.
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Post by wazzu on Apr 21, 2024 9:29:43 GMT -5
When I look at the tape of these QBs, sometimes I think the talking heads have their QB rankings backwards. History doesn't lie. It is what it is. As I've said before: Your probability of landing a good QB is effectively unrelated to where you draft your QB in the first round (except #1). Every year we get caught up in the emotions of "being right" that we think the QB we like at #3 is much better than the QB we draft at #11 or later. We have to accept that we are not any better than the GMs from the previous 50 years. It doesn't matter how "convinced" we are about a Drake Maye or JJM or Daniels at #3. Our opinions don't alter reality. Trade down and take Bo Nix or Penix. It takes two to make a trade and I’m not sure NE is going to get much for good offers.
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Post by muzwell on Apr 21, 2024 10:00:54 GMT -5
When I look at the tape of these QBs, sometimes I think the talking heads have their QB rankings backwards. History doesn't lie. It is what it is. As I've said before: Your probability of landing a good QB is effectively unrelated to where you draft your QB in the first round (except #1). Every year we get caught up in the emotions of "being right" that we think the QB we like at #3 is much better than the QB we draft at #11 or later. We have to accept that we are not any better than the GMs from the previous 50 years. It doesn't matter how "convinced" we are about a Drake Maye or JJM or Daniels at #3. Our opinions don't alter reality. Trade down and take Bo Nix or Penix. It takes two to make a trade and I’m not sure NE is going to get much for good offers. This. Minnesota is the obvious trade up candidate but they don’t have to go all the way to 3. 4, 5 and 6 would all trade down and be happy to do so. And it would take less. The Pats are going to draft at 3. I don’t think they will have a choice.
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Post by wazzu on Apr 21, 2024 10:02:19 GMT -5
It takes two to make a trade and I’m not sure NE is going to get much for good offers. This. Minnesota is the obvious trade up candidate but they don’t have to go all the way to 3. 4, 5 and 6 would all trade down and be happy to do so. And it would take less. The Pats are going to draft at 3. I don’t think they will have a choice. I agree.
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Post by carawaydj on Apr 21, 2024 10:02:57 GMT -5
When I look at the tape of these QBs, sometimes I think the talking heads have their QB rankings backwards. History doesn't lie. It is what it is. As I've said before: Your probability of landing a good QB is effectively unrelated to where you draft your QB in the first round (except #1). Every year we get caught up in the emotions of "being right" that we think the QB we like at #3 is much better than the QB we draft at #11 or later. We have to accept that we are not any better than the GMs from the previous 50 years. It doesn't matter how "convinced" we are about a Drake Maye or JJM or Daniels at #3. Our opinions don't alter reality. Trade down and take Bo Nix or Penix. Nobody can argue with this. I've been pretty much saying the same thing. NFL history tells us most of these guys we think will be good won't be. It's possible this draft only produces one or two good QBs. Of the so-called top three, perhaps only one will be decent. This is reality. This is why the NFL isn't full of good QBs. You just gotta cross your fingers and hope the guy you pick is the guy or one of the two guys in the draft who will be good. The 1983 draft was a rare draft for QBs. What isn't rare is people thinking a draft class might be just as good…just to find out it wasn't.
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Post by muzwell on Apr 21, 2024 10:03:48 GMT -5
If there was a dark horse trade up candidate it might be Chicago looking to get Harrison to pair with Williams. But again they don’t have to go all the way to 3.
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Post by muzwell on Apr 21, 2024 10:05:36 GMT -5
When I look at the tape of these QBs, sometimes I think the talking heads have their QB rankings backwards. History doesn't lie. It is what it is. As I've said before: Your probability of landing a good QB is effectively unrelated to where you draft your QB in the first round (except #1). Every year we get caught up in the emotions of "being right" that we think the QB we like at #3 is much better than the QB we draft at #11 or later. We have to accept that we are not any better than the GMs from the previous 50 years. It doesn't matter how "convinced" we are about a Drake Maye or JJM or Daniels at #3. Our opinions don't alter reality. Trade down and take Bo Nix or Penix. Or just take the surest thing in the draft (Alt) at 3 and Nix at 34.
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