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Post by coolade on Dec 9, 2017 9:54:08 GMT -5
Basically... The AFC east looks weaker because patriots are IN IT. .
So obvious. The teams are no worse than other divisions, maybe even better than most , they are just beaten down every year.
So patriots are " lucky" they are so good.. Lol.
Really . This topic is so overblown it's stupid to bring it up. But there's no shortage of stupid out there and around here too... Lol.
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Post by agcsbill on Dec 9, 2017 10:05:29 GMT -5
Basically... The AFC east looks weaker because patriots are IN IT. . So obvious. The teams are no worse than other divisions, maybe even better than most , they are just beaten down every year. So patriots are " lucky" they are so good.. Lol. Really . This topic is so overblown it's stupid to bring it up. But there's no shortage of stupid out there and around here too... Lol. It's called "one up-man-ship". Just accept the way things are and stop rationalizing or make excuses. Leave that to the haters and non-believers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 11:09:48 GMT -5
Taking the perhaps most stark example (2014) of what you are contending, it still shows two of the other three teams in the division as being in the mix until the last week or two for those playoff spots. Plus three other teams can say the same thing. That's 5 teams that could have made the playoffs other than those two AFCN teams. Any way you slice it, even using your best example, it's difficult to say that division was much more competitive. The other 3 teams in the east had 21 wins and the other 3 teams in the north had 27. And the AFCN played the NFCS that year where that division didn't have ONE team end up with a winning record! Talk about a cake schedule. Objectively speaking, there is precious little evidence to say the AFCE is much worse than any other division over that time. The eye test alone says it but what I posted backs it up. Just think about it... the Jets, Bills and Dolphins have only been to the playoffs 4 times over the past 10 seasons... that tells you all you need to know... and it’s not because they have to play the Pats 2 times each season, I already proved that “theory” wrong... talk about a cake schedule... the Pats have 6 games a season vs 3 teams who have made the playoffs 4 times... combined... (the Bills haven’t been to the playoffs forever) Winning record?? The bills just barely had a winning record, the jets and Dolphins didn’t. Did you happen to look who the NFCS played that year... compare the Bills schedule to the Panthers schedule.... the NFCS has a much more difficult schedule. Go back again and study the 10 year chart I posted, it’s mind blowing when you take it in and understand what it’s saying. You, as well as others continue to make arguments against it but they all get shot down by its data. Allow me to let you in on a little secret... the team with the best record doesn’t always win the SB but usually the best team wins the SB. You win SBs by getting to the playoffs... the Jets, Dolphins and Bills only been to the playoffs 4 times in 10 years combined. Really, just mind blowing what a weak division it is. The three other teams in the division had a combined 211- 269 record over the past decade. That's a 44% win rate compared to the league average of 50%. Hanging your hat on the rest of the division losing a lousy 6% more games than the league average while being in the same division as the winningest team of all is a precarious place for a hat; but go with that if you like .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 11:15:52 GMT -5
Collectively the other three teams in our division have averaged about a 1-4 W/L ratio against the Pats over the last 8 years. That's a huge disadvantage for them compared to the rest of the league. They are mostly competitive against the league but are dragged down by playing in the same division as the perennially winning Pats. Shot this one down already Babe. Go see the discussion we had concerning the Steelers and AFCN, and Packers and NFCN. What page is this shoot-down on?
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 11:53:34 GMT -5
Unbelievable. Do you honestly and seriously believe the shit you spew Sheldon? Those numbers are not meaningless. Are you really going to make that claim? Every other division in the NFL has more teams going to the playoffs than the AFC EAST. The Jets, Bills and Dolphins have been to the playoffs 4 times in the last 10 years! That’s a weak F’ing division. Those numbers tell the story, Sheldon. You can continue to act dumb and act like you don’t understand what the hell is going on but even I think your smarter than that. I continue to feed you L’s here, you look like a complete knuckle head. You are so stubborn you can’t even admit your wrong when it’s clear as day!! Those numbers don’t mean anything... lmao! They mean everything, Sheldon. Be a man and accept that you are wrong here. OK, I have had enough. You are not only willing to admit you are completely wrong, but you are bordering on insulting. You need to give yourself a warning, Mr. Admin. The reason that the AFC East has fewer playoff teams is because the Pats are so freakin' dominant. They start of with 0-2 each season. Tougher to make the playoffs when the winner goes 14-2 while other winners are 10-6. Nevermind. The ONLY numbers of significance that PROVE you wrong are the ones I presented three times -- and which you ignore. I am done responding your nonsense. You got your wish. I will leave it to other posters to point out to you that those numbers mean everything and PROVE just how strong the REST OF THE AFC East is. The dominant argument is total bullshit. I have already disproved that Sheldon. You need to read the the discussions instead of being so hell bent to try and prove me wrong. The Steelers are totally dominant in their division, 2 less playoff appearances in 10 years than the Pats, the Packers totally dominant in their division, same playoff appearances in 10 years as the Pats, yet the other teams in their division make the playoffs 2 and 3 times more than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills have. Totally disproves your lame dominance argument. I’m sorry you don’t like the findings here and can’t admit the Pats play in a weak division but they do. The proof is all here.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 12:01:01 GMT -5
Basically... The AFC east looks weaker because patriots are IN IT. . So obvious. The teams are no worse than other divisions, maybe even better than most , they are just beaten down every year. So patriots are " lucky" they are so good.. Lol. Really . This topic is so overblown it's stupid to bring it up. But there's no shortage of stupid out there and around here too... Lol. Can you not read?? You post totally shows that you haven’t read a single post in here. The Packers have been to just as many playoffs in 10 years as the Patriots have yet the other teams in the NFC North have been to the playoffs twice as many times as the Jets, Bills and Dolphins. The Steelers have been to the playoffs 2 times less than the Pats have in 10 years yet the rest of the division has been to the playoffs 12 times... compared to just 4 times for the Jets, Bills and Dolphins. So your comment is total bullshit.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 12:11:56 GMT -5
Lmao. www.google.com/amp/s/www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2017/8/24/16195240/pats-success-has-been-helped-by-weak-divisionHere’s another one... with numbers Sheldon, more numbers for you... The AFC East (2002-2013) - The weakest division in the NFL during the BB Era? Much has been made during the Patriots' tremendous run since BB took over the reigns over how weak the AFC East has been over that time. It is thought by many detractors of the Patriots that they've run up big records against these weak opponents, and that has propelled them into the playoffs year after year. But is it true? Is it really the case that the AFC East has been the NFL's weakest division? I will only use the years since the NFL went to the 8-division format, which means looking at 2002-2013. Of course this leaves out one of the Pats' Super Bowl seasons, but oh well. It's just easier this way. So yes, the AFC East has been one of the weaker divisions in the NFL during this time frame, which has undoubtedly benefited the Patriots.But, is it the Patriots' fault? NO! The Patriots can only play the teams on their schedule, it is not like they set up their own schedule, which is effectively a "first place" schedule year after year. Additionally, the Patriots are not responsible for how the other teams in the AFCE look like. Each team has the same opportunity to draft and sign players to create their team. For some reason the Pats do a better job year after year and people are very jealous of that and need to poke holes in it using the "weak AFCE" rationale. you are absolutely right and I totally agree with you. It’s not the Pats fault, they can only play the teams on their schedule. I’m not trying to discredit their accomplishments or anything, just stating the facts that they do play in a weak division. Move them to another division and they still win. Maybe they have one or two less SB appearances and 1 less SB win over the past 18 seasons or maybe not.. that’s never been part of my discussion here. All I’m saying is they play in a weak division, just as so many others also believe. That’s it... nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 12:13:19 GMT -5
Shot this one down already Babe. Go see the discussion we had concerning the Steelers and AFCN, and Packers and NFCN. What page is this shoot-down on? Page 5.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 12:53:34 GMT -5
What page is this shoot-down on? Page 5. That didn't shoot down anything. If a team goes 9-7 ten straight years and makes the playoffs every time, and another goes 8-8 every year and misses the playoffs every year for 10 straight years, the 9-7 team is still only one win better in quality. Your clinging to the playoff picture to try to make your case omits the reality that these last berths are decided by very little difference between the teams. The rest of the AFC East performs about 6% below the league average for wins. That's insignificant.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 13:01:46 GMT -5
That didn't shoot down anything. If a team goes 9-7 ten straight years and makes the playoffs every time, and another goes 8-8 every year and misses the playoffs every year for 10 straight years, the 9-7 team is still only one win better in quality. Your clinging to the playoff picture to try to make your case omits the reality that these last berths are decided by very little difference between the teams. The rest of the AFC East performs about 6% below the league average for wins. That's insignificant. Is there a team that goes 9-7 10 straight years and makes the playoffs every year and another team that’s going 8-8 10 straight years and misses the playoffs every year, Babe? Or is that just a hypothetical that your throwing out?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 13:12:00 GMT -5
That didn't shoot down anything. If a team goes 9-7 ten straight years and makes the playoffs every time, and another goes 8-8 every year and misses the playoffs every year for 10 straight years, the 9-7 team is still only one win better in quality. Your clinging to the playoff picture to try to make your case omits the reality that these last berths are decided by very little difference between the teams. The rest of the AFC East performs about 6% below the league average for wins. That's insignificant. Is there a team that goes 9-7 10 straight years and makes the playoffs every year and another team that’s going 8-8 10 straight years and misses the playoffs every year, Babe? Or is that just a hypothetical that your throwing out? It's a hypothetical to illustrate the point. Just because one division gets more playoff appearances doesn't indicate that the division is necessarily that much more competitive than another who is getting nearly as many wins but not as many playoff berths. The bottom line is that the other teams in the division have only 6% less wins than the league average (even considering they play the best team of all twice a year). There's no getting around that.
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Post by Shelly on Dec 9, 2017 13:31:16 GMT -5
All you guys are getting sidetracked by TFB12's playoff crap. The only real determinant of which division's competition for the division winner is the out of division record for teams #2, #3 and #4. When that is done for the last fifteen years the NFL East's also-rans comes out as either best, or close to the best group.
TFB12 has totally avoided addressing that issue -- and with good reason. That being that it totally destroys his AFC East is weak contention. The facts are that it is just the opposite, so he avoids addressing it because he would have to admit he is wrong. So, he lives on in his delusions that he had "proven" it, that he is handing us "Ls", and that he has destroyed us. At least he is happy in his fantasy world of delusions -- or at least I hope so.
So, fellas, how about getting back on track and hammer home the real issue -- the stats I provided conclusively show the opposite of what TFB12 maintains is true?
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Post by Shelly on Dec 9, 2017 13:43:05 GMT -5
OK, I have had enough. You are not only willing to admit you are completely wrong, but you are bordering on insulting. You need to give yourself a warning, Mr. Admin. The reason that the AFC East has fewer playoff teams is because the Pats are so freakin' dominant. They start of with 0-2 each season. Tougher to make the playoffs when the winner goes 14-2 while other winners are 10-6. Nevermind. The ONLY numbers of significance that PROVE you wrong are the ones I presented three times -- and which you ignore. I am done responding your nonsense. You got your wish. I will leave it to other posters to point out to you that those numbers mean everything and PROVE just how strong the REST OF THE AFC East is. The dominant argument is total bullshit. I have already disproved that Sheldon. You need to read the the discussions instead of being so hell bent to try and prove me wrong. The Steelers are totally dominant in their division, 2 less playoff appearances in 10 years than the Pats, the Packers totally dominant in their division, same playoff appearances in 10 years as the Pats, yet the other teams in their division make the playoffs 2 and 3 times more than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills have. Totally disproves your lame dominance argument. I’m sorry you don’t like the findings here and can’t admit the Pats play in a weak division but they do. The proof is all here. Duh! The PROOF is in the stats I provided for the combined out of division W-L for the #2, #3, and #4 teams in each division. Forget I even said anything about dominant. That was in trying to help you understand. Just go by the stats I provided which show that the AFCs also-rans over the last 15 years have somewhere between the BEST w-l percentage and the fifth best w-l percentage (probably much closer to first). It has been days now, with numerous posts from you and you have not even attempted to find any holes it what I provided. Instead you go off on some tangent or other like "playoff appearances". Duh! Stop being a delusional coward and address the numbers I provided. (Hint: the only way you can prove me wrong is by going into a year by year, division by division, analysis to get the actual out of division records for the division winners. You would need something like a 5-5 to get the AFC East to be near the bottom. NFW.) Waiting.........
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Post by agcsbill on Dec 9, 2017 13:44:35 GMT -5
But, is it the Patriots' fault? NO! The Patriots can only play the teams on their schedule, it is not like they set up their own schedule, which is effectively a "first place" schedule year after year. Additionally, the Patriots are not responsible for how the other teams in the AFCE look like. Each team has the same opportunity to draft and sign players to create their team. For some reason the Pats do a better job year after year and people are very jealous of that and need to poke holes in it using the "weak AFCE" rationale. you are absolutely right and I totally agree with you. It’s not the Pats fault, they can only play the teams on their schedule. I’m not trying to discredit their accomplishments or anything, just stating the facts that they do play in a weak division. Move them to another division and they still win. Maybe they have one or two less SB appearances and 1 less SB win over the past 18 seasons or maybe not.. that’s never been part of my discussion here. All I’m saying is they play in a weak division, just as so many others also believe. That’s it... nothing more, nothing less. ..and we'll never know just how they would do in another division. When you look at their W-L record outside of the AFCE, it is the best around. That in itself says something about the way this franchise goes about its business. Do yo think an AFCN team wants the Pats in their division? The AFCS? Plus, if they did play in a tougher division, wouldn't that make them even better outside of the division since tougher inter division play would improve the team? Again, we'll never know and accept the greatness for what it is now.
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Post by Shelly on Dec 9, 2017 13:47:26 GMT -5
Is there a team that goes 9-7 10 straight years and makes the playoffs every year and another team that’s going 8-8 10 straight years and misses the playoffs every year, Babe? Or is that just a hypothetical that your throwing out? It's a hypothetical to illustrate the point. Just because one division gets more playoff appearances doesn't indicate that the division is necessarily that much more competitive than another who is getting nearly as many wins but not as many playoff berths. The bottom line is that the other teams in the division have only 6% less wins than the league average (even considering they play the best team of all twice a year). There's no getting around that. Case in point. This year the AFC North could possibly have had three playoff teams had Cincy held on against Pittsburgh. Playoff counts mean nothing in this argument.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 13:48:31 GMT -5
Is there a team that goes 9-7 10 straight years and makes the playoffs every year and another team that’s going 8-8 10 straight years and misses the playoffs every year, Babe? Or is that just a hypothetical that your throwing out? It's a hypothetical to illustrate the point. Just because one division gets more playoff appearances doesn't indicate that the division is necessarily that much more competitive than another who is getting nearly as many wins but not as many playoff berths. The bottom line is that the other teams in the division have only 6% less wins than the league average (even considering they play the best team of all twice a year). There's no getting around that. Yeah, I knew it was a hypothetical. Hypotheticals don’t work, Babe. That’s why nobody ever uses hypotheticals. Lol. Come on, get serious. “They play the best team of all twice a year”. That argument doesn’t work either, Babe. We already covered this multiple times. The packers are the dominate team in their division the past 10 years, every team in their division has to play them twice a year too... yet, the other teams in that division make the playoffs twice the amount of times the jets, Bills and Dolphins have. The AFC North is more dominate of a division than the AFC East.. even with the Browns in the division dragging the averages down they are still a tougher division than the AFC East.
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Post by lowfbiq on Dec 9, 2017 13:49:05 GMT -5
All you guys are getting sidetracked by TFB12's playoff crap. The only real determinant of which division's competition for the division winner is the out of division record for teams #2, #3 and #4. When that is done for the last fifteen years the NFL East's also-rans comes out as either best, or close to the best group. TFB12 has totally avoided addressing that issue -- and with good reason. That being that it totally destroys his AFC East is weak contention. The facts are that it is just the opposite, so he avoids addressing it because he would have to admit he is wrong. So, he lives on in his delusions that he had "proven" it, that he is handing us "Ls", and that he has destroyed us. At least he is happy in his fantasy world of delusions -- or at least I hope so. So, fellas, how about getting back on track and hammer home the real issue -- the stats I provided conclusively show the opposite of what TFB12 maintains is true? No the playoff part is foolish. I already said so. The playoff way of trying to decide if a whole division is more competitive on a regular basis is analogous to the argument of yards being more important than points. It is the same exact basis of the argument and not understand the game and the way it is structured. Facts are facts and only three divisions out of eight have a slightly higher total winning percentage than the AFC East in the last 10 years. More importantly the winning % differences in either direction over long periods of time is almost completely negligible between divisions. Like I already mentioned earlier, one need look no further than this season at its current state. AFCEast #2 division winning percentage. No current wild card playoff team. Of course this throws a wrench in their claims so they will ignore it. People are truly making themselves look silly. Lets look at 2015 AFC East vs AFC North(which is a big talking point apparently). AFC East was 36-28 while the AFC North was 30-34. Yet even though the AFC East was better the AFC North had a wild card team get in and NOT the AFC East. The Steelers and Jets both finished second in their divisions with the same record of 10-6. Probably the Steelers won some tie breaker. Using the playoffs as an indicator is just so dumb and this example is exactly why. The AFC East won not 1 more game than the AFC North BUT SIX MORE GAMES. On top of that a 9-7 Texans team also got in even though with a worse record than the Jets because they won their crappy division that year. That fact that some people do not understand this is really every bit as amusing as the ones that do not understand points being the most important thing.
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Post by Shelly on Dec 9, 2017 13:52:45 GMT -5
All you guys are getting sidetracked by TFB12's playoff crap. The only real determinant of which division's competition for the division winner is the out of division record for teams #2, #3 and #4. When that is done for the last fifteen years the NFL East's also-rans comes out as either best, or close to the best group. TFB12 has totally avoided addressing that issue -- and with good reason. That being that it totally destroys his AFC East is weak contention. The facts are that it is just the opposite, so he avoids addressing it because he would have to admit he is wrong. So, he lives on in his delusions that he had "proven" it, that he is handing us "Ls", and that he has destroyed us. At least he is happy in his fantasy world of delusions -- or at least I hope so. So, fellas, how about getting back on track and hammer home the real issue -- the stats I provided conclusively show the opposite of what TFB12 maintains is true? No the playoff part is foolish. I already said so. The playoff way of trying to decide if a whole division is more competitive on a regular basis is analogous to the argument of yards being more important than points. It is the same exact basis of the argument and not understand the game and the way it is structured. Facts are facts and only three divisions out of eight have a slightly higher total winning percentage than the AFC East in the last 10 years. More importantly the winning % differences in either direction over long periods of time is almost completely negligible between divisions. Like I already mentioned earlier, one need look no further than this season at its current state. AFCEast #2 division winning percentage. No current wild card playoff team. Of course this throws a wrench in their claims so they will ignore it. People are truly making themselves look silly. Lets look at 2015 AFC East vs AFC North(which is a big talking point apparently). AFC East was 36-28 while the AFC North was 30-34. Yet even though the AFC East was better the AFC North had a wild card team get in and NOT the AFC East. The Steelers and Jets both finished second in their divisions with the same record of 10-6. Probably the Steelers won some tie breaker. Using the playoffs as an indicator is just so dumb and this example is exactly why. The AFC East won not 1 more game than the AFC North BUT SIX MORE GAMES. On top of that a 9-7 Texans team also got in even though with a worse record than the Jets because they won their crappy division that year. That fact that some people do not understand this is really every bit as amusing as the ones that do not understand points being the most important thing. Please replace the first three letters of your handle with these four -- h, i, g, h
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 13:57:24 GMT -5
All you guys are getting sidetracked by TFB12's playoff crap. The only real determinant of which division's competition for the division winner is the out of division record for teams #2, #3 and #4. When that is done for the last fifteen years the NFL East's also-rans comes out as either best, or close to the best group. TFB12 has totally avoided addressing that issue -- and with good reason. That being that it totally destroys his AFC East is weak contention. The facts are that it is just the opposite, so he avoids addressing it because he would have to admit he is wrong. So, he lives on in his delusions that he had "proven" it, that he is handing us "Ls", and that he has destroyed us. At least he is happy in his fantasy world of delusions -- or at least I hope so. So, fellas, how about getting back on track and hammer home the real issue -- the stats I provided conclusively show the opposite of what TFB12 maintains is true? I don’t avoid addressing anything, Sheldon. Your numbers mean absolutely nothing. Your trying way to hard to baffle us with your bullshit. The Ravens are better than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the last 10 years. The Bengals are better than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the last 10 years. The Jets, Dolphins and Bills are better than the Browns over the last 10 years. Which division is tougher? That’s about as simple as I can make it for you Sheldon, if you still don’t get it then there is no help for you on this one. You can go back and live in your plastic bubble.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 14:00:56 GMT -5
All you guys are getting sidetracked by TFB12's playoff crap. The only real determinant of which division's competition for the division winner is the out of division record for teams #2, #3 and #4. When that is done for the last fifteen years the NFL East's also-rans comes out as either best, or close to the best group. TFB12 has totally avoided addressing that issue -- and with good reason. That being that it totally destroys his AFC East is weak contention. The facts are that it is just the opposite, so he avoids addressing it because he would have to admit he is wrong. So, he lives on in his delusions that he had "proven" it, that he is handing us "Ls", and that he has destroyed us. At least he is happy in his fantasy world of delusions -- or at least I hope so. So, fellas, how about getting back on track and hammer home the real issue -- the stats I provided conclusively show the opposite of what TFB12 maintains is true? No the playoff part is foolish. I already said so. The playoff way of trying to decide if a whole division is more competitive on a regular basis is analogous to the argument of yards being more important than points. It is the same exact basis of the argument and not understand the game and the way it is structured. Facts are facts and only three divisions out of eight have a slightly higher total winning percentage than the AFC East in the last 10 years. More importantly the winning % differences in either direction over long periods of time is almost completely negligible between divisions. Like I already mentioned earlier, one need look no further than this season at its current state. AFCEast #2 division winning percentage. No current wild card playoff team. Of course this throws a wrench in their claims so they will ignore it. People are truly making themselves look silly. Lets look at 2015 AFC East vs AFC North(which is a big talking point apparently). AFC East was 36-28 while the AFC North was 30-34. Yet even though the AFC East was better the AFC North had a wild card team get in and NOT the AFC East. The Steelers and Jets both finished second in their divisions with the same record of 10-6. Probably the Steelers won some tie breaker. Using the playoffs as an indicator is just so dumb and this example is exactly why. The AFC East won not 1 more game than the AFC North BUT SIX MORE GAMES. On top of that a 9-7 Texans team also got in even though with a worse record than the Jets because they won their crappy division that year. That fact that some people do not understand this is really every bit as amusing as the ones that do not understand points being the most important thing. Yet the Jets, Bills and Dolphins have only made the playoffs 4 times combined in the past 10 years. The best teams aren’t getting shut out from the playoffs year after year yet you want us to believe the Jets Bills and Dolphins are. Lol! Yeah, good argument there. Haha!!
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Post by agcsbill on Dec 9, 2017 14:04:49 GMT -5
All you guys are getting sidetracked by TFB12's playoff crap. The only real determinant of which division's competition for the division winner is the out of division record for teams #2, #3 and #4. When that is done for the last fifteen years the NFL East's also-rans comes out as either best, or close to the best group. TFB12 has totally avoided addressing that issue -- and with good reason. That being that it totally destroys his AFC East is weak contention. The facts are that it is just the opposite, so he avoids addressing it because he would have to admit he is wrong. So, he lives on in his delusions that he had "proven" it, that he is handing us "Ls", and that he has destroyed us. At least he is happy in his fantasy world of delusions -- or at least I hope so. So, fellas, how about getting back on track and hammer home the real issue -- the stats I provided conclusively show the opposite of what TFB12 maintains is true? No the playoff part is foolish. I already said so. The playoff way of trying to decide if a whole division is more competitive on a regular basis is analogous to the argument of yards being more important than points. It is the same exact basis of the argument and not understand the game and the way it is structured. Facts are facts and only three divisions out of eight have a slightly higher total winning percentage than the AFC East in the last 10 years. More importantly the winning % differences in either direction over long periods of time is almost completely negligible between divisions. Like I already mentioned earlier, one need look no further than this season at its current state. AFCEast #2 division winning percentage. No current wild card playoff team. Of course this throws a wrench in their claims so they will ignore it. People are truly making themselves look silly. Lets look at 2015 AFC East vs AFC North(which is a big talking point apparently). AFC East was 36-28 while the AFC North was 30-34. Yet even though the AFC East was better the AFC North had a wild card team get in and NOT the AFC East. The Steelers and Jets both finished second in their divisions with the same record of 10-6. Probably the Steelers won some tie breaker. Using the playoffs as an indicator is just so dumb and this example is exactly why. The AFC East won not 1 more game than the AFC North BUT SIX MORE GAMES. On top of that a 9-7 Texans team also got in even though with a worse record than the Jets because they won their crappy division that year. That fact that some people do not understand this is really every bit as amusing as the ones that do not understand points being the most important thing. Recall the year the Pats finished 11 - 5, 2008, and did not get into the playoffs. Miami got in with the same record, as did the Ravens, as a result of tie breaker rules. that was also the year the super 8 - 8 Chargers got in. Miami got whacked by the Ravens in the playoffs.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 14:08:11 GMT -5
you are absolutely right and I totally agree with you. It’s not the Pats fault, they can only play the teams on their schedule. I’m not trying to discredit their accomplishments or anything, just stating the facts that they do play in a weak division. Move them to another division and they still win. Maybe they have one or two less SB appearances and 1 less SB win over the past 18 seasons or maybe not.. that’s never been part of my discussion here. All I’m saying is they play in a weak division, just as so many others also believe. That’s it... nothing more, nothing less. ..and we'll never know just how they would do in another division. When you look at their W-L record outside of the AFCE, it is the best around. That in itself says something about the way this franchise goes about its business. Do yo think an AFCN team wants the Pats in their division? The AFCS? Plus, if they did play in a tougher division, wouldn't that make them even better outside of the division since tougher inter division play would improve the team? Again, we'll never know and accept the greatness for what it is now. I’m not saying anything about the Pats other than they play in a weak ass division. As I have said numerous times already, move them to any division.. maybe they only make it to 5 SBs instead of 7, maybe so maybe not, maybe they win 1 less SB, maybe, maybe not... this isn’t about the Patriots.. it’s about the rest of the division they are in. The patriots play in a weak division. Period. Does that mean the Patriots aren’t the best team in the NFL... nope! They are still the single best team in the NFL over that period.
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Post by Shelly on Dec 9, 2017 14:08:26 GMT -5
All you guys are getting sidetracked by TFB12's playoff crap. The only real determinant of which division's competition for the division winner is the out of division record for teams #2, #3 and #4. When that is done for the last fifteen years the NFL East's also-rans comes out as either best, or close to the best group. TFB12 has totally avoided addressing that issue -- and with good reason. That being that it totally destroys his AFC East is weak contention. The facts are that it is just the opposite, so he avoids addressing it because he would have to admit he is wrong. So, he lives on in his delusions that he had "proven" it, that he is handing us "Ls", and that he has destroyed us. At least he is happy in his fantasy world of delusions -- or at least I hope so. So, fellas, how about getting back on track and hammer home the real issue -- the stats I provided conclusively show the opposite of what TFB12 maintains is true? I don’t avoid addressing anything, Sheldon. Your numbers mean absolutely nothing. Your trying way to hard to baffle us with your bullshit. The Ravens are better than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the last 10 years. The Bengals are better than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the last 10 years. The Jets, Dolphins and Bills are better than the Browns over the last 10 years. Which division is tougher? That’s about as simple as I can make it for you Sheldon, if you still don’t get it then there is no help for you on this one. You can go back and live in your plastic bubble. You can call it bullshit all you want, but you still have not shown in ANY way whatsoever that they "mean absolutely nothing" -- because they are the ONLY meaningful numbers. You can go on living with your delusions. Anyway, still Waiting.........
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 9, 2017 14:19:11 GMT -5
I don’t avoid addressing anything, Sheldon. Your numbers mean absolutely nothing. Your trying way to hard to baffle us with your bullshit. The Ravens are better than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the last 10 years. The Bengals are better than the Jets, Dolphins and Bills over the last 10 years. The Jets, Dolphins and Bills are better than the Browns over the last 10 years. Which division is tougher? That’s about as simple as I can make it for you Sheldon, if you still don’t get it then there is no help for you on this one. You can go back and live in your plastic bubble. You can call it bullshit all you want, but you still have not shown in ANY way whatsoever that they "mean absolutely nothing" -- because they are the ONLY meaningful numbers. You can go on living with your delusions. Anyway, still Waiting......... Yes, I showed they mean absolutely nothing by telling you the Jets, Dolphins and Bills have only made the playoffs 4 times combined over the last 10 years. Show me another division that is so weak. You haven’t and you won’t be able to, no matter what bullshit you try to spew on here. 4 playoffs combined in 10 years!! That is weak!! That is not a competitive division. Sorry that you can’t accept that, sorry that you dislike me so much that your stubborness won’t let you admit defeat... but your in denial, Sheldon. Continue to live in your plastic bubble with those hideous rose colored glasses on.
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Post by agcsbill on Dec 9, 2017 14:21:15 GMT -5
..and we'll never know just how they would do in another division. When you look at their W-L record outside of the AFCE, it is the best around. That in itself says something about the way this franchise goes about its business. Do yo think an AFCN team wants the Pats in their division? The AFCS? Plus, if they did play in a tougher division, wouldn't that make them even better outside of the division since tougher inter division play would improve the team? Again, we'll never know and accept the greatness for what it is now. I’m not saying anything about the Pats other than they play in a weak ass division. As I have said numerous times already, move them to any division.. maybe they only make it to 5 SBs instead of 7, maybe so maybe not, maybe they win 1 less SB, maybe, maybe not... this isn’t about the Patriots.. it’s about the rest of the division they are in. The patriots play in a weak division. Period. Does that mean the Patriots aren’t the best team in the NFL... nope! They are still the single best team in the NFL over that period. But, and you do throw a big BUT in there, they play in a weak division which may have contributed to their success, if not their greatness, over that period. Like I have said earlier, we'll never know how they would have done if the other teams in the AFCE produced better competition or if they played in another division. Where you have been getting in trouble, TFB, is your "weak division" position, which no matter how valid is devaluing the success of this franchise. If another poster, not like a regular here and the Pats' fan you are, let's say UD6, presented these arguments like you are, you just may be one of the first to counter UD's position is nothing but a slap at the success of the Patriots by a jealous poster.
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