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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 6, 2024 13:26:25 GMT -5
I'm going with Thunderstick. He 100% changed the culture and brought the pieces together for 2 decades of success. He changed the culture? Or he brought in someone who changed the culture? Ninkovich talked about Patriots culture starting at the 9-min mark. He talked about joining the team at a time when the culture was already formed and he credited the OCs, DCs, and players there for that culture. But the OC, DC and a couple of the players he mentioned to be crucial to that culture were already there before BB joined the team. That culture was not there before BB. The team was under Carroll before BB. Carroll is more of a coach who likes being buddies with his players. The team's culture was very different under Carroll versus under BB. |
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Post by philskiw on Apr 6, 2024 13:49:29 GMT -5
Troy brown. Andre Tippett.
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Post by patslifer on Apr 6, 2024 14:41:58 GMT -5
I'm going with Thunderstick. He 100% changed the culture and brought the pieces together for 2 decades of success. He changed the culture? Or he brought in someone who changed the culture? Ninkovich talked about Patriots culture starting at the 9-min mark. He talked about joining the team at a time when the culture was already formed and he credited the OCs, DCs, and players there for that culture. But the OC, DC and a couple of the players he mentioned to be crucial to that culture were already there before BB joined the team. That culture was not there before BB. The team was under Carroll before BB. Carroll is more of a coach who likes being buddies with his players. The team's culture was very different under Carroll versus under BB. Who gave up a draft pick to acquire BB? Who ended up giving him both HC and GM responsibility? Who was hands off to let BB do what he did with minimal interference? Who decided to jettison BB when the ship had sunk? Who is going to resurrect the franchise? Thunderstick |
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 6, 2024 14:55:14 GMT -5
He changed the culture? Or he brought in someone who changed the culture? Ninkovich talked about Patriots culture starting at the 9-min mark. He talked about joining the team at a time when the culture was already formed and he credited the OCs, DCs, and players there for that culture. But the OC, DC and a couple of the players he mentioned to be crucial to that culture were already there before BB joined the team. That culture was not there before BB. The team was under Carroll before BB. Carroll is more of a coach who likes being buddies with his players. The team's culture was very different under Carroll versus under BB. Who gave up a draft pick to acquire BB? Who ended up giving him both HC and GM responsibility? Who was hands off to let BB do what he did with minimal interference? Who decided to jettison BB when the ship had sunk? Who is going to resurrect the franchise? Thunderstick Look I respect what he did for the fans by keeping the team in NE. But it was not the reason why the team ended up becoming great. And from a business perspective, he really did not have a choice. Moving the team down to Hartford would have been bad for business. He bought the team when game attendance was still the biggest driver of revenue. It would have been easier for NYJ fans than for fans in ME, NH, Boston and RI, to drive to Hartford. Had the only difference been that the team moved the Hartford, but all other things the same (BB there, OCs and DCs there, TB there), they still would have been a great team. Note something you said yourself in your post - he was hands off. That would be equivalent to saying someone was great because he gave Van Gogh a blank canvas and did not tell the painter what and how to paint. Hands off means he actually had nothing to do with buidling the team and creating the culture that made them great. |
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Post by jri37 on Apr 6, 2024 15:48:33 GMT -5
Who gave up a draft pick to acquire BB? Who ended up giving him both HC and GM responsibility? Who was hands off to let BB do what he did with minimal interference? Who decided to jettison BB when the ship had sunk? Who is going to resurrect the franchise? Thunderstick Look I respect what he did for the fans by keeping the team in NE. But it was not the reason why the team ended up becoming great. And from a business perspective, he really did not have a choice. Moving the team down to Hartford would have been bad for business. He bought the team when game attendance was still the biggest driver of revenue. It would have been easier for NYJ fans than for fans in ME, NH, Boston and RI, to drive to Hartford. Had the only difference been that the team moved the Hartford, but all other things the same (BB there, OCs and DCs there, TB there), they still would have been a great team. Note something you said yourself in your post - he was hands off. That would be equivalent to saying someone was great because he gave Van Gogh a blank canvas and did not tell the painter what and how to paint. Hands off means he actually had nothing to do with buidling the team and creating the culture that made them great. He might of moved to the team to Hartford but my guess was he leveraged Hartford to try and get the best deal possible. Thism is my opinion only based on multiple things I’ve read. www.wtnh.com/news/was-robert-kraft-ever-sincere-about-moving-patriots-to-connecticut/ |
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Post by digger0862 on Apr 6, 2024 15:49:33 GMT -5
I'm going with Kevin Faulk. He wasn't underrated while he was playing but he is slightly forgotten thanks to the greatness of James White.
Kevin could do it all. He got particularly good at finding 1st downs on the draw play. He played in four super bowls but he didn't stand out in any of them.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 6, 2024 16:37:54 GMT -5
Look I respect what he did for the fans by keeping the team in NE. But it was not the reason why the team ended up becoming great. And from a business perspective, he really did not have a choice. Moving the team down to Hartford would have been bad for business. He bought the team when game attendance was still the biggest driver of revenue. It would have been easier for NYJ fans than for fans in ME, NH, Boston and RI, to drive to Hartford. Had the only difference been that the team moved the Hartford, but all other things the same (BB there, OCs and DCs there, TB there), they still would have been a great team. Note something you said yourself in your post - he was hands off. That would be equivalent to saying someone was great because he gave Van Gogh a blank canvas and did not tell the painter what and how to paint. Hands off means he actually had nothing to do with buidling the team and creating the culture that made them great. He might of moved to the team to Hartford but my guess was he leveraged Hartford to try and get the best deal possible. Thism is my opinion only based on multiple things I’ve read. www.wtnh.com/news/was-robert-kraft-ever-sincere-about-moving-patriots-to-connecticut/What's that got to do with buidling a winning culture that patslifer gave him credit for? |
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Post by jri37 on Apr 6, 2024 16:47:19 GMT -5
What's that got to do with buidling a winning culture that patslifer gave him credit for? I was just commenting and giving my opinion on the part of your post where you mentioned about him keeping the team in NE. I already gave my underrated earlier in the thread. |
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 6, 2024 17:42:51 GMT -5
What's that got to do with buidling a winning culture that patslifer gave him credit for? I was just commenting and giving my opinion on the part of your post where you mentioned about him keeping the team in NE. I already gave my underrated earlier in the thread. Got it. I thought you were weighing in on his role on building a winning culture. |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 6, 2024 18:25:58 GMT -5
I was just commenting and giving my opinion on the part of your post where you mentioned about him keeping the team in NE. I already gave my underrated earlier in the thread. Got it. I thought you were weighing in on his role on building a winning culture. He hired BB. That is a decision. The winning culture is built through winning. I’m just giving him credit for helping put the foundation in place to build that culture. Did he build it by himself? No. But it wasn’t getting built without that hire. |
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