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Post by coolade on Apr 27, 2016 12:09:33 GMT -5
Higher courts should produce higher intelligence... Representing closer adherence to things like the constitution, individual rights, freedoms... Etc.
You would think, right.? In America?
Instead you get dimwits chin and parker deciding to align with a dictatorship, while blaming the loosely written CBA and the players.
The fact that it was open to interpretation tells you how weak this judgment was , since the opportunity was there to see the whole case as Berman and katzman did.
INSTEAD, you see higher court judges simply choose to look the other way...This is impossible since, A higher court implies higher examination, more thoroughness, everything taken into account.
Yet these 2 idiots Chin and Parker just produce a disturbing , narrow minded, collusion with the NFL.
Shocking and no way will the nflpa let this stand.
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soups
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Post by soups on Apr 27, 2016 12:19:08 GMT -5
Well said. The other thing that gets me is, this was supposed to be about labor, not gamesmanship, psi, or performance. But Chin actually alluded to the the idea that Brady was "probably aware" and "might have participated" in deflation. But this wasn't supposed to be a rehash of Deflategate's "evidence," it was about the power of Goodell v. the NFLPA.
So why was it okay that in a court of alleged higher intellect, that they actually ended up basing their judgment at least partially on the "evidence" presented by Wells?
NFLPA just got hoodwinked.
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Post by coolade on Apr 27, 2016 13:05:54 GMT -5
Right... It really smells like collusion or a pay off. Chin bugs me since he was appointed democratic and he takes the side of blatantly powercorrupt Goodell and the billionaires.
Weird... Doesn't fit. Like there is a hidden bias in there. Sure would be nice if it gets exposed.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 27, 2016 13:10:57 GMT -5
In related news, Goodell is still a cVnt.
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Post by patseng on Apr 27, 2016 13:15:03 GMT -5
Remember when people went crazy when they found out Berman went to the same college as Kraft and said that was the reasoning for the ruling well..... Chin went to the same college as Mara and in Sept a reporter said from a high up source that Brady was guaranteed to lose this case, well many people felt it was Mara considering it came during a Giants game. Surprised this isn't brought up more
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 13:35:28 GMT -5
Maybe Chin and Parker just know the law better than you do?
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soups
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Post by soups on Apr 27, 2016 13:46:10 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not whether they know the law better than anyone else, it's their interpretation of it.
I hope to God that they do know the law better than those who aren't, you know, lawyers or judges. But one of those three judges doesn't agree, and thinks that Chin and Parker are generally ignorant here. He has called Chin and Parker flawed for their lack logic, their thinking, and was surprised by their votes. It's exceedingly rare that this isn't a unanimous vote.
No offense, but ZBellino shredded your and others' arguments last year. He pretty much called all of this from the get go while you were still crying guilty b/c of a faulty Mortensen report.
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Post by coolade on Apr 27, 2016 13:47:24 GMT -5
Remember when people went crazy when they found out Berman went to the same college as Kraft and said that was the reasoning for the ruling well..... Chin went to the same college as Mara and in Sept a reporter said from a high up source that Brady was guaranteed to lose this case, well many people felt it was Mara considering it came during a Giants game. Surprised this isn't brought up more Not sure what college that was but it seems not enough to influence a democratic judge. There's gotta be something else...
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 13:54:30 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not whether they know the law better than anyone else, it's their interpretation of it. I hope to God that they do know the law better than those who aren't, you know, lawyers or judges. But one of those three judges doesn't agree, and thinks that Chin and Parker are generally ignorant here. He has called Chin and Parker flawed for their lack logic, their thinking, and was surprised by their votes. It's exceedingly rare that this isn't a unanimous vote. No, it's not exceedingly rare for decisions to be split in appeals.
No offense, but ZBellino shredded your and others' arguments last year. He pretty much called all of this from the get go while you were still crying guilty b/c of a faulty Mortensen report. Z is a smart guy and I generally agree with him, but let's face it, his "law of the shop" argument really didn't hold up in the appeals court. It was a fair argument, but it is currently not the one to have prevailed.
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Post by coolade on Apr 27, 2016 13:56:15 GMT -5
Maybe Chin and Parker just know the law better than you do?  Maybe.... Except Berman and Katzman who are actual federal judges think chin and parker are idiots too.
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Post by coolade on Apr 27, 2016 14:01:16 GMT -5
"No, it's not exceedingly rare for decisions to be split in appeals. "
Yes it is to follow your thinking that it is a simple law question.
Wrong... This is a bigger question that should go to the supreme court (thanks to these dimwits) which goes to the limits of arbitrary punishment.
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morerings
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Post by morerings on Apr 27, 2016 14:07:41 GMT -5
They are not idiots. They are just like goodell and the league front office or any politician for that matter. They are not idiots........they are corrupt. Big Difference. There is only one true idiot in the world......his name is Bill Belichick.....
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Post by coolade on Apr 27, 2016 14:20:49 GMT -5
Maybe Poussies is a better description of a court or judges that are afraid to set a precedent as if all cases fall into little categories .
Wrong again. All cases require total judgment of all circumstances and in this case the basis for the punishment was blatantly flawed ... Which was the CAUSE for the appeal in the FIRST PLACE.
CORRECTION.. this does make them idiots.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 14:28:27 GMT -5
Parker is a republican appointee. His view is understandable. Chin is an Obama guy. That's not.
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soups
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Post by soups on Apr 27, 2016 14:38:32 GMT -5
Pro, it's not that it's rare to lose or win the appeal in a fair fight, but this was stacked. They weren't going to consider ANY of the evidence for or against Brady as a result of Deflategate. This was an investigation into the power of the union v. the power of arbitrary punishment from the NFL.
But then they actually cited, in court, Brady's phone destruction, as well as texts about "the Deflator" during this appellate process. They continued to use, on appeal, Wells' conclusion that Brady "more probably than not" had knowledge of active deflation. Never supposed to enter the appeals process.
Two judges had no problem that the NFL defied the process by presenting this evidence in the appellate court. They made zero connection b/t this "evidence" and its impact on the relationship b/t the NFL and the NFLPA.
So yeah, it's kind of rare that two of the three judges disregarded their own process. It's even more rare that the lone dissenter has basically called the two assenters morons.
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fourjays30
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Post by fourjays30 on Apr 27, 2016 14:48:41 GMT -5
I don't know how much more of the law they know or not but something is fishy when they said they ruled strictly that the CBA gave Goodell the right to be the chief judge jury and executioner but they cherry picked the earlier testimony to bolster their decision. If they thought their ruling was sound on the law why did they have to do that? My feeling is if they ruled solely on article 46 everyone would have called their BS. They thought what the counsel for the NFL presented was fact and they did not have the moral fortitude to check it out for themselves. You have to remember all this is taken place in New York so no one was going to go out of the way to help the Pats. It will be interesting to see how the Peterson case plays out because if he wins then there is precedent that Goodell does not have the right under article 46 to be the divine wind bag.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 27, 2016 14:52:44 GMT -5
I just think they copped out and did not want to get involved in a collectively bargained agreement and Article #46 was a convenient out. As many people have pointed out, article #46 has been in place since the 1st CBA. Why? Because any reasonable person knows contracts are negotiated with an understanding of good faith and so is Article #46. Only the previous commish's acted fairly and reasonably while wielding the same exact powers. The judges ruling the way they did means they would also turn a blind eye if Rogah had banned the entire starting offense, FOR LIFE, over deflategate. As in there is NO LIMIT to what is allowed by article #46, good faith and reason-ability be damned. I do not believe they believe that or would allow that. They copped out because although ridiculous for something that probably never even happened, it is still only 4 games of football. EVERYONE, including the judges, know the NFL did not operate with even a trace of good faith or reasonableness.
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Post by cyncalpatsfan on Apr 27, 2016 14:53:04 GMT -5
Maybe Chin and Parker just know the law better than you do? And maybe the Chief Justice who voted against the ruling being overturned knows better than they do? Seems to me, we have a tie. Two for and two against.
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 14:56:36 GMT -5
Parker is a republican appointee. His view is understandable. Chin is an Obama guy. That's not. Parker was actually nominated for a district court seat by Clinton and then promoted to the appeals court by Bush.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:04:12 GMT -5
Parker is a republican appointee. His view is understandable. Chin is an Obama guy. That's not. Parker was actually nominated for a district court seat by Clinton and then promoted to the appeals court by Bush.
Yeah, he is a rare bird. The democrat controlled senate returned his nomination the first time around.
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Post by juleswinnfield on Apr 27, 2016 15:19:47 GMT -5
Or, the judges applied case law, rather than the laws of extreme homerism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:24:50 GMT -5
Or, the judges applied case law, rather than the laws of extreme homerism. How does that explain that two judges applied case law in Brady's favor? Were they "homers"?
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 17:43:02 GMT -5
Duplicate
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 17:44:18 GMT -5
In case you never noticed before, judges frequently disagree what the law means and requires. Law is a pretty complex thing. That's actually why we have appeals courts. That's also why we have law schools—so judges actually are educated in the law.
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Post by seawolf on Apr 28, 2016 9:47:55 GMT -5
Given Chin's relationship with Mara - He should of recused himself. He had no buisness hearing this case- He was compromised- And the evidence is how he acted at the Hearing and his agreement of this opinion. An opinon far beyond Article 46
This is how our Pols do business - with a wink and a nod That is exactly how Obama people work They dont have to be told - they just know
And yeah we dont have strong Labor laws lol- I gues only if we havent achieved a communist workers party here yet- lmao
Our system is almost entirely corrupt Why else do we have a Trump doing what he is doing? (I am not getting into a pro Trump debate here)
As D Breez said he has no faith in any NFl investigation - and now you can add judges like Chin-
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