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Post by rkarp on May 2, 2016 7:32:05 GMT -5
-for me, who watched the first round and not much more, now following the UDFA's is a little too much.
-I thought who the Pats drafted said a lot about who is on the team. the RB group as a whole should feel pretty good, and the fans should feel pretty good that Blount and Lewis most likely will be pretty healthy from day 1. I think Cannon/Wardle also should feel pretty good. The interior guys imo need to start looking in the mirror.
-I have not spoke with a single person (6 total since he was drafted) that thinks the Brissett choice was a good one. Ditto Valentine. In BB we trust
-seems everyone is in favor of Mitchell. if healthy, he appears to be a lock.
-fwiw, my friends back in Florida continue to say good things about Dobsons working out and his health. maybe this is his year?
-I assume we see some roster moves starting today on the back end. most importantly, will we see some extensions before training camp?
-I do think Harbaugh will find a way to ustilize KReynolds much the same way we all thought BB might
-the draft and its buildup was fun. but in no way shape or form does it figure into how the AFC East will shape up this season.
-really, really early attempt at some surprise roster moves...Devlin, Stork, Bostic, Amendola, Derby, Gaffney, Harper
-one of the players I was hoping landed with the Pats was Justin Simmons
-I do wish to again reconfirm my liking the Pats choice on Jones. very good CB imo, and in no way am I a draft expert or even follow it very much, but I did target him a few weeks back as someone I liked for the Pats. He is already the Pats primary return man, right?
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Post by ATJ on May 2, 2016 7:42:34 GMT -5
It seems that Valentine and Brissett are the consensus W.T.H.I.B.D* candidates this year, with Brissett higher up on the list. I'll be interested in seeing where each stands as the season unfolds.
Pretty much agree that DA is a restructure or gone candidate.
*What The Hell Is Belichick Doing
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Post by patslifer on May 2, 2016 8:43:47 GMT -5
I am lukewarm on Brisket (I prefer to refer to him as a smoked meat product until he does something), but I understand what BB was doing as he is building depth at the position if Jimmy G moves on in a couple, and/or, Brady serves the suspension and you need a backup to Jimmy G. I don't love the pick, but I get it.
Valentine is a load. To be fair, he was hurt most of last year with a high ankle sprain. Watch his tape from year prior and you'll see he is a load in the middle with a little bit of penetration. He was a good pick, although in typical BB fashion, one that could have been made 1-2 rounds or more from where he was taken. With the beef of our DL in jeaopardy for next year, Valentine is going to be a key cog in the middle to stop the run. This pick was made for next year for the possible departure of Branch & Pot Roast. You need girth in the middle and Valentine is both big and strong.
your surprise roster moves aren't big surprises other than Stork. Stork being released or traded would really surprise me. He played very well on the SB winning team. What is your justiification here? The rest I could absolutely see.
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Post by wazzu on May 2, 2016 8:53:34 GMT -5
-for me, who watched the first round and not much more, now following the UDFA's is a little too much. -I thought who the Pats drafted said a lot about who is on the team. the RB group as a whole should feel pretty good, and the fans should feel pretty good that Blount and Lewis most likely will be pretty healthy from day 1. I think Cannon/Wardle also should feel pretty good. The interior guys imo need to start looking in the mirror. -I have not spoke with a single person (6 total since he was drafted) that thinks the Brissett choice was a good one. Ditto Valentine. In BB we trust -seems everyone is in favor of Mitchell. if healthy, he appears to be a lock. -fwiw, my friends back in Florida continue to say good things about Dobsons working out and his health. maybe this is his year? -I assume we see some roster moves starting today on the back end. most importantly, will we see some extensions before training camp? -I do think Harbaugh will find a way to ustilize KReynolds much the same way we all thought BB might -the draft and its buildup was fun. but in no way shape or form does it figure into how the AFC East will shape up this season. -really, really early attempt at some surprise roster moves...Devlin, Stork, Bostic, Amendola, Derby, Gaffney, Harper -one of the players I was hoping landed with the Pats was Justin Simmons -I do wish to again reconfirm my liking the Pats choice on Jones. very good CB imo, and in no way am I a draft expert or even follow it very much, but I did target him a few weeks back as someone I liked for the Pats. He is already the Pats primary return man, right? -Gaffney and Blount are looking good. White and Brown will need to play well because DJ Foster is very skilled and looks like a perfect NE RB. -I think Andrews would be cut before Stork, but I agree that there could be a suprise cut there if Thurney is a capable Center. I think he will start at G, but if he can also be a backup RT and C that could be huge. -I didn't like Simmons, much. Mediocre athlete. -I think that the additions of Mitchell and Lucien spell the end for Dobson |
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Post by rkarp on May 2, 2016 8:56:17 GMT -5
I am lukewarm on Brisket (I prefer to refer to him as a smoked meat product until he does something), but I understand what BB was doing as he is building depth at the position if Jimmy G moves on in a couple, and/or, Brady serves the suspension and you need a backup to Jimmy G. I don't love the pick, but I get it. Valentine is a load. To be fair, he was hurt most of last year with a high ankle sprain. Watch his tape from year prior and you'll see he is a load in the middle with a little bit of penetration. He was a good pick, although in typical BB fashion, one that could have been made 1-2 rounds or more from where he was taken. With the beef of our DL in jeaopardy for next year, Valentine is going to be a key cog in the middle to stop the run. This pick was made for next year for the possible departure of Branch & Pot Roast. You need girth in the middle and Valentine is both big and strong. your surprise roster moves aren't big surprises other than Stork. Stork being released or traded would really surprise me. He played very well on the SB winning team. What is your justiification here? The rest I could absolutely see. I have seen only limited you tube plays from both Briskett and Valentine, but taking the word from others who know much more about both players trhan I do: Briskett and Valentine may be good NFL players, but are a poor fit for the Pats. Briskett is a strong runner with a big arm, but has accuracy and touch issues. that does not sound like a fit in this offense if for some reason he is pressed into playing time sooner than later. Valentine is apprears is best suited for nose tackle in a 3-4 defense, but I continue to feel the Pats will play 5-6 DB's much of the time, and when they are not in that D, will play more a 2-5 defense. those who know more than me, also have all pointed out Valentine has a very questionale work ethic. real question if he makes this roster imo Stork imo when completely healthy is a middle of the pack C. lets see if he can play a Scar style OL with the needed foot work to pull and sometimes trap. going to be a different OL than Googs ran, and Googs ran to Stork's strength. I dont think Scar does/will |
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Ram
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Post by Ram on May 2, 2016 9:04:43 GMT -5
I'm not bothered by the player as much as I am the value you of the pick you used on him vs. when he was projected to go.
If the Pats saw Valentine as a top 100 player they needed to have done their homework and known everybody else saw him a a rd 5-7 player. They could have traded down from 91 to like 120, added a 5th rd pick and still taken him. With Connor Cook on the board still at that pick they also must have known Brissett wasn't going to be picked before that area of rd 4 as well.
I never liked the Tavon Wilson pick because I liked Lavonte David SO MUCH I could never fathom why BB did that. But I was ok with picks like Harmon and Richards, I just thought he needed to trade down one more round at least to maximize the value there.
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Post by patslifer on May 2, 2016 9:08:01 GMT -5
I am lukewarm on Brisket (I prefer to refer to him as a smoked meat product until he does something), but I understand what BB was doing as he is building depth at the position if Jimmy G moves on in a couple, and/or, Brady serves the suspension and you need a backup to Jimmy G. I don't love the pick, but I get it. Valentine is a load. To be fair, he was hurt most of last year with a high ankle sprain. Watch his tape from year prior and you'll see he is a load in the middle with a little bit of penetration. He was a good pick, although in typical BB fashion, one that could have been made 1-2 rounds or more from where he was taken. With the beef of our DL in jeaopardy for next year, Valentine is going to be a key cog in the middle to stop the run. This pick was made for next year for the possible departure of Branch & Pot Roast. You need girth in the middle and Valentine is both big and strong. your surprise roster moves aren't big surprises other than Stork. Stork being released or traded would really surprise me. He played very well on the SB winning team. What is your justiification here? The rest I could absolutely see. I have seen only limited you tube plays from both Briskett and Valentine, but taking the word from others who know much more about both players trhan I do: Briskett and Valentine may be good NFL players, but are a poor fit for the Pats. Briskett is a strong runner with a big arm, but has accuracy and touch issues. that does not sound like a fit in this offense if for some reason he is pressed into playing time sooner than later. Valentine is apprears is best suited for nose tackle in a 3-4 defense, but I continue to feel the Pats will play 5-6 DB's much of the time, and when they are not in that D, will play more a 2-5 defense. those who know more than me, also have all pointed out Valentine has a very questionale work ethic. real question if he makes this roster imo Stork imo when completely healthy is a middle of the pack C. lets see if he can play a Scar style OL with the needed foot work to pull and sometimes trap. going to be a different OL than Googs ran, and Googs ran to Stork's strength. I dont think Scar does/will Good point on Stork and Scar. We'll see. So you think Andrews is better suited to play C in the way Scar likes to run his OL? If those reports are true on Valentine than it's a poor, poor pick. Questionable work ethic is the nail in the coffin for me, regardless of how talented a player is, forget about one who is a rookie trying to make the team. Assuming he puts in the work....Even in a sub-defense, the Pats are playing 2 guys inside with girth. Guys that could easily play in a 3-4 as both NTs or ends. So, I don't know why Valentine doesn't fit this? If his primary job is to stop the run, take on doubles and open up things for the LB's, he sounds like a decent fit. He's big like a typical 3-4 NT, but he is surprisingly quick for his size. Not to say he is Easley or even Vince when he was young. Your last sentence on Valentine is shocking..."real question if he makes this roster?".....How the hell could BB burn a 3rd round pick on a guy with questionable work ethic who is a question mark to even make the roster? That baffles me. |
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Post by patslifer on May 2, 2016 9:11:05 GMT -5
I'm not bothered by the player as much as I am the value you of the pick you used on him vs. when he was projected to go. If the Pats saw Valentine as a top 100 player they needed to have done their homework and known everybody else saw him a a rd 5-7 player. They could have traded down from 91 to like 120, added a 5th rd pick and still taken him. With Connor Cook on the board still at that pick they also must have known Brissett wasn't going to be picked before that area of rd 4 as well. I never liked the Tavon Wilson pick because I liked Lavonte David SO MUCH I could never fathom why BB did that. But I was ok with picks like Harmon and Richards, I just thought he needed to trade down one more round at least to maximize the value there. +1 he could have been had 1-2 rounds later. If he plays like a round 5-7 player then the Pats scouts need a reality check here. I find it odd that one team can have him graded out 2-4 rounds earlier than everyone else. I get part of that grade his system/team fit, but this isn't a 1 time deal as you point out with Wilson and many, many others who were not mentioned. |
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Post by rkarp on May 2, 2016 9:13:11 GMT -5
I have seen only limited you tube plays from both Briskett and Valentine, but taking the word from others who know much more about both players trhan I do: Briskett and Valentine may be good NFL players, but are a poor fit for the Pats. Briskett is a strong runner with a big arm, but has accuracy and touch issues. that does not sound like a fit in this offense if for some reason he is pressed into playing time sooner than later. Valentine is apprears is best suited for nose tackle in a 3-4 defense, but I continue to feel the Pats will play 5-6 DB's much of the time, and when they are not in that D, will play more a 2-5 defense. those who know more than me, also have all pointed out Valentine has a very questionale work ethic. real question if he makes this roster imo Stork imo when completely healthy is a middle of the pack C. lets see if he can play a Scar style OL with the needed foot work to pull and sometimes trap. going to be a different OL than Googs ran, and Googs ran to Stork's strength. I dont think Scar does/will Good point on Stork and Scar. We'll see. So you think Andrews is better suited to play C in the way Scar likes to run his OL? If those reports are true on Valentine than it's a poor, poor pick. Questionable work ethic is the nail in the coffin for me, regardless of how talented a player is, forget about one who is a rookie trying to make the team. Assuming he puts in the work....Even in a sub-defense, the Pats are playing 2 guys inside with girth. Guys that could easily play in a 3-4 as both NTs or ends. So, I don't know why Valentine doesn't fit this? If his primary job is to stop the run, take on doubles and open up things for the LB's, he sounds like a decent fit. He's big like a typical 3-4 NT, but he is surprisingly quick for his size. Not to say he is Easley or even Vince when he was young. Your last sentence on Valentine is shocking..."real question if he makes this roster?".....How the hell could BB burn a 3rd round pick on a guy with questionable work ethic who is a question mark to even make the roster? That baffles me. yes, in Scar's system, Andrews or Thuney may be better C's I think with Valentine, it is a numbers game. do they keep 4 or 5 DT's? Brown, Branch, Knighton are all locks. can they statsh him on the PS for a year? |
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Post by patslifer on May 2, 2016 10:04:47 GMT -5
yes, in Scar's system, Andrews or Thuney may be better C's I think with Valentine, it is a numbers game. do they keep 4 or 5 DT's? Brown, Branch, Knighton are all locks. can they statsh him on the PS for a year? I think they want to roll with 4-5 DTs. So, Brown, Branch, Knighton and Valentine should all be locks. I don't think they stash him as I expect to see him inserted at some point this year and he has to provide depth behind the 3 you mentioned. |
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jedediah10
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Post by jedediah10 on May 2, 2016 10:35:28 GMT -5
I feel like Valentine is classic Bill. High risk, high reward. Stating the obvious - if he works out it could be a great pick. If he doesn't work out he will just join the dozens of other picks, in that range, that flame out. There are no guarantees in the draft - How many known starters are available at this point in the draft?
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Post by patslifer on May 2, 2016 10:45:15 GMT -5
I feel like Valentine is classic Bill. High risk, high reward. Stating the obvious - if he works out it could be a great pick. If he doesn't work out he will just join the dozens of other picks, in that range, that flame out. There are no guarantees in the draft - How many known starters are available at this point in the draft? It's a valid point, however, when Valentine was taken there were at least another 5-7 "better" DL that could have been had. I put quote marks around "better" because it's subjective, but I think a lot of us here at several guys rated higher we would have expected taken before Valentine. I went back to the 2014 season (when he was 100% healthy) and watched as much on him as I could...I wasn't too impressed to be honest. He got washed out of a lot of run plays and didn't play like a guy his size at times. I don't know if this conditioning, technique or what, but he wasn't the load I expected him to be. If anyone is interested, watch him against USC, you'll see what I mean. |
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jedediah10
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Post by jedediah10 on May 2, 2016 10:47:01 GMT -5
I feel like Valentine is classic Bill. High risk, high reward. Stating the obvious - if he works out it could be a great pick. If he doesn't work out he will just join the dozens of other picks, in that range, that flame out. There are no guarantees in the draft - How many known starters are available at this point in the draft? It's a valid point, however, when Valentine was taken there were at least another 5-7 "better" DL that could have been had. I put quote marks around "better" because it's subjective, but I think a lot of us here at several guys rated higher we would have expected taken before Valentine. I went back to the 2014 season (when he was 100% healthy) and watched as much on him as I could...I wasn't too impressed to be honest. He got washed out of a lot of run plays and didn't play like a guy his size at times. I don't know if this conditioning, technique or what, but he wasn't the load I expected him to be. If anyone is interested, watch him against USC, you'll see what I mean. ----------- Thanks - i will watch that game to get better a sense of who he is. |
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Post by rkarp on May 2, 2016 12:05:44 GMT -5
seems to me any player needs to play and practice hard and take well to coaching, especially here. there seems to be some murmurs he is a bit lazy.
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Post by muzwell on May 2, 2016 13:28:52 GMT -5
Just for fun, name these two college QBs (last two years only):
QB A (23 games):
Compl: 380
Att: 618
Compl. Pct: 61.5%
Yards: 4,644
TDs: 30
INTs: 16
QB B (26 games):
Compl: 458
Att: 765
Compl. Pct: 59.9%
Yards: 5,268
TDs: 43
INTs: 11
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Post by Shelly on May 2, 2016 13:49:47 GMT -5
Just for fun, name these two college QBs (last two years only): QB A (23 games): Compl: 380 Att: 618 Compl. Pct: 61.5% Yards: 4,644 TDs: 30 INTs: 16 QB B (26 games): Compl: 458 Att: 765 Compl. Pct: 59.9% Yards: 5,268 TDs: 43 INTs: 11 I don't know but my guess is that A is the first pick in the draft and B is the one we picked. |
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Post by muzwell on May 2, 2016 13:52:46 GMT -5
Just for fun, name these two college QBs (last two years only): QB A (23 games): Compl: 380 Att: 618 Compl. Pct: 61.5% Yards: 4,644 TDs: 30 INTs: 16 QB B (26 games): Compl: 458 Att: 765 Compl. Pct: 59.9% Yards: 5,268 TDs: 43 INTs: 11 I don't know but my guess is that A is the first pick in the draft and B is the one we picked. Almost...A is Tom Brady, B is Jacqueline Bissett, Briskett, Biscuit (or whatever his name is...). |
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Post by mthurl on May 2, 2016 15:03:13 GMT -5
Of course we aren't experts, but watching some of the video on these guys and reading the stuff that's out there (and there's a lot), we can form our own uneducated opinions. My opinion is mixed at best. At first I really didn't like this draft...didn't care for Jones much...thought the pick for the QB was absurd and quite honestly something I also fully expected from them. But I actually liked the Valentine pick; Belichick rarely misses on defensive linemen, especially the fat ones. This kid moves pretty well for a big guy, he really does. Belichick has plucked so many big defensive linemen over the years in the middle of drafts that I'm somewhat confident this kid will be ok. Malcolm doesn't look like he can separate to me, despite his 40 time, but he is still getting healthy from his knee injury. The offensive lineman looks pretty good and versatile. The kid Kamu looks like a physical freak that will make the roster just based off of speed and hitting ability (and hopefully in a year he'll be a safety). I love projects like this kid. www.hudl.com/athlete/3416661/highlights/316122417The receiver in the 7th looks intriguing, actually more intriguing to me than Malcolm. And you know there will be one or two surprises out of the UFA's. I'll give it a C. And without a first round pick and picking so low, is that bad? I don't think so. |
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Post by mthurl on May 2, 2016 17:52:57 GMT -5
It's a valid point, however, when Valentine was taken there were at least another 5-7 "better" DL that could have been had. I put quote marks around "better" because it's subjective, but I think a lot of us here at several guys rated higher we would have expected taken before Valentine. I went back to the 2014 season (when he was 100% healthy) and watched as much on him as I could...I wasn't too impressed to be honest. He got washed out of a lot of run plays and didn't play like a guy his size at times. I don't know if this conditioning, technique or what, but he wasn't the load I expected him to be. If anyone is interested, watch him against USC, you'll see what I mean. ----------- Thanks - i will watch that game to get better a sense of who he is. I watched the USC game and honestly I didn't think it was too bad. He got handled on a double team...he got turned by an absolutely huge guard, but other than that I didn't think he was easy to move. He holds his ground pretty well - as he should for a guy his size - it looks like he needs work keeping his shoulders square to the line of scrimmage when he runs, but I imagine they can work on that. Watch the Iowa game, he is pretty impressive. If he's lazy, then yeah, he won't last, but I think he's huge and I think there's plenty to work with. What was this defense ranked on third and short running plays last year? It seemed like those were a given every time they would run it, hopefully that will change with Knighton and this kid. |
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Post by patslifer on May 2, 2016 18:07:35 GMT -5
I watched the USC game and honestly I didn't think it was too bad. He got handled on a double team...he got turned by an absolutely huge guard, but other than that I didn't think he was easy to move. He holds his ground pretty well - as he should for a guy his size - it looks like he needs work keeping his shoulders square to the line of scrimmage when he runs, but I imagine they can work on that. Watch the Iowa game, he is pretty impressive. If he's lazy, then yeah, he won't last, but I think he's huge and I think there's plenty to work with. What was this defense ranked on third and short running plays last year? It seemed like those were a given every time they would run it, hopefully that will change with Knighton and this kid. Will do. I will watch the Iowa game and see if I come with a different opinion on him. Thanks man. |
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Post by fletcherbrook on May 2, 2016 18:15:28 GMT -5
I'm not bothered by the player as much as I am the value you of the pick you used on him vs. when he was projected to go. If the Pats saw Valentine as a top 100 player they needed to have done their homework and known everybody else saw him a a rd 5-7 player. They could have traded down from 91 to like 120, added a 5th rd pick and still taken him. With Connor Cook on the board still at that pick they also must have known Brissett wasn't going to be picked before that area of rd 4 as well. I never liked the Tavon Wilson pick because I liked Lavonte David SO MUCH I could never fathom why BB did that. But I was ok with picks like Harmon and Richards, I just thought he needed to trade down one more round at least to maximize the value there. Well put |
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Post by lowfbiq on May 2, 2016 18:40:03 GMT -5
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