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Post by backbay on Mar 28, 2024 16:32:17 GMT -5
Hey, All Can someone elaborate on Mike Lombardi's use of term progression read and half read quarterback - and apply those terms to
Jayden Daniels Drake Maye JJ McCarthy Bo Nix Michael Penix
And what respective team uses a "pro-style" offense.
Thank you.
4:50 Lombardi mentions progression read vs. half read quarterbacks.
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Post by rkarp on Mar 28, 2024 16:41:20 GMT -5
I would understand progression reads and processing speed similarly.
how quickly can a QB process after the snap that option 1 is not available, option 2, option 3? each option is his next progression read.
has to make each decision in a split second.
half read QB imo is a QB that looks to option 1, and if it is not available, either will tuck and run, force the throw, throw the ball away, or take a sack.
I do not know as fact, but what I have read is that Williams and Nix are top tier for progression reads
Penix is next
Maye has the rep of trying to force the play
Daniels has the rep to tuck and run
I thought of all the top 6, JJMc played in the least pro style offense
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Mar 28, 2024 16:46:02 GMT -5
I would understand progression reads and processing speed similarly. how quickly can a QB process after the snap that option 1 is not available, option 2, option 3? each option is his next progression read. has to make each decision in a split second. half read QB imo is a QB that looks to option 1, and if it is not available, either will tuck and run, force the throw, throw the ball away, or take a sack. I do not know as fact, but what I have read is that Williams and Nix are top tier for progression reads Penix is next Maye has the rep of trying to force the play Daniels has the rep to tuck and run I thought of all the top 6, JJMc played in the least pro style offenseThat comment surprised me. I read on these boards that JJM wa sin a pro-style offense. Presumably because the HC was in the NFL for a long time? In what sense did JJM play in the least pro-style O? |
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Post by rkarp on Mar 28, 2024 16:48:42 GMT -5
I would understand progression reads and processing speed similarly. how quickly can a QB process after the snap that option 1 is not available, option 2, option 3? each option is his next progression read. has to make each decision in a split second. half read QB imo is a QB that looks to option 1, and if it is not available, either will tuck and run, force the throw, throw the ball away, or take a sack. I do not know as fact, but what I have read is that Williams and Nix are top tier for progression reads Penix is next Maye has the rep of trying to force the play Daniels has the rep to tuck and run I thought of all the top 6, JJMc played in the least pro style offenseThat comment surprised me. I read on these boards that JJM wa sin a pro-style offense. Presumably because the HC was in the NFL for a long time? In what sense did JJM play in the least pro-style O? he didn't throw the ball enough |
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Mar 28, 2024 16:49:56 GMT -5
That comment surprised me. I read on these boards that JJM wa sin a pro-style offense. Presumably because the HC was in the NFL for a long time? In what sense did JJM play in the least pro-style O? he didn't throw the ball enough Thanks. |
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Post by ucmiami on Mar 28, 2024 19:19:51 GMT -5
A progressive read is reading from receiver 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (as you get sacked) - there is a clear distinction as to which is the first read and so on.
A half read - is the QB is expected to only read half the field - generally keying on what a specific defender is doing. You often see college receivers on the back side of this system loafing around because they know they aint getting the rock.
A pro style offense is a little muddier in the modern NFL, but it is typically used to refer to 1 back, 2 TEs, 2 receivers or 1,1,3 with QB spending significant time under center (more optional now.)
The RPO with the QB being a viable option runner, the 4/5 receiver gun offenses, and various other college systems are not considered 'pro style'.
I believe people consider that Michigan ran a pro style offense, Oregon did not. It is not how often you pass, but how the personnel, plays, and expectations are laid out.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Mar 28, 2024 19:37:17 GMT -5
Did Mahomes play in a pro-style offense at Texas Tech?
Was Mahomes a Progression Read or a Half Read QB at Texas Tech?
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Post by johngrant on Mar 28, 2024 20:22:30 GMT -5
A progressive read is reading from receiver 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (as you get sacked) - there is a clear distinction as to which is the first read and so on. A half read - is the QB is expected to only read half the field - generally keying on what a specific defender is doing. You often see college receivers on the back side of this system loafing around because they know they aint getting the rock. A pro style offense is a little muddier in the modern NFL, but it is typically used to refer to 1 back, 2 TEs, 2 receivers or 1,1,3 with QB spending significant time under center (more optional now.) The RPO with the QB being a viable option runner, the 4/5 receiver gun offenses, and various other college systems are not considered 'pro style'. I believe people consider that Michigan ran a pro style offense, Oregon did not. It is not how often you pass, but how the personnel, plays, and expectations are laid out. Some college offenses are designed to take advantage of the wider hash marks too. |
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Post by DaPatriots on Mar 28, 2024 20:35:26 GMT -5
A progressive read is reading from receiver 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (as you get sacked) - there is a clear distinction as to which is the first read and so on. A half read - is the QB is expected to only read half the field - generally keying on what a specific defender is doing. You often see college receivers on the back side of this system loafing around because they know they aint getting the rock. A pro style offense is a little muddier in the modern NFL, but it is typically used to refer to 1 back, 2 TEs, 2 receivers or 1,1,3 with QB spending significant time under center (more optional now.) The RPO with the QB being a viable option runner, the 4/5 receiver gun offenses, and various other college systems are not considered 'pro style'. I believe people consider that Michigan ran a pro style offense, Oregon did not. It is not how often you pass, but how the personnel, plays, and expectations are laid out. Some college offenses are designed to take advantage of the wider hash marks too. A lot of screen plays! |
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Post by backbay on Mar 29, 2024 5:06:50 GMT -5
A progressive read is reading from receiver 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (as you get sacked) - there is a clear distinction as to which is the first read and so on. A half read - is the QB is expected to only read half the field - generally keying on what a specific defender is doing. You often see college receivers on the back side of this system loafing around because they know they aint getting the rock. A pro style offense is a little muddier in the modern NFL, but it is typically used to refer to 1 back, 2 TEs, 2 receivers or 1,1,3 with QB spending significant time under center (more optional now.) The RPO with the QB being a viable option runner, the 4/5 receiver gun offenses, and various other college systems are not considered 'pro style'. I believe people consider that Michigan ran a pro style offense, Oregon did not. It is not how often you pass, but how the personnel, plays, and expectations are laid out. Is Purdy a half read QB?
In a TB12 podcast, Brady elaborated about the complexity and knowledge of the Patriots' offense where the QB had to presnap processing (reading D?) and post snap processing (progressive read) of the whole field.
How would the 49ers offensive scheme be broken down? Is Purdy a half read Quarter back? I've heard that the "thinking/understanding/processing" by the QB is much, much simpler.
can someone elaborate?
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Mar 29, 2024 7:33:11 GMT -5
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Post by rkarp on Mar 29, 2024 7:50:26 GMT -5
A progressive read is reading from receiver 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (as you get sacked) - there is a clear distinction as to which is the first read and so on. A half read - is the QB is expected to only read half the field - generally keying on what a specific defender is doing. You often see college receivers on the back side of this system loafing around because they know they aint getting the rock. A pro style offense is a little muddier in the modern NFL, but it is typically used to refer to 1 back, 2 TEs, 2 receivers or 1,1,3 with QB spending significant time under center (more optional now.) The RPO with the QB being a viable option runner, the 4/5 receiver gun offenses, and various other college systems are not considered 'pro style'. I believe people consider that Michigan ran a pro style offense, Oregon did not. It is not how often you pass, but how the personnel, plays, and expectations are laid out. Is Purdy a half read QB?
In a TB12 podcast, Brady elaborated about the complexity and knowledge of the Patriots' offense where the QB had to presnap processing (reading D?) and post snap processing (progressive read) of the whole field.
How would the 49ers offensive scheme be broken down? Is Purdy a half read Quarter back? I've heard that the "thinking/understanding/processing" by the QB is much, much simpler.
can someone elaborate?
Bradys Pats teams won the play before the ball was snapped. Brady knew what the defense was going to do, and knew before the snap where he was going to throw the ball. if for some reason that first option was not available, he was able to quickly progress to his 2nd option. I find Purdy to be a similiar type QB, but with out Tom's accuracy, arm strength or touch (no one threw a better wheel route than Tom) Purdy was supposed to be Mac. Mac came out of school with everything Purdy does, except Mac did not have the coach like Shanhy, other than his rookie season, and Mac did not have Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittles or CMC |
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Post by rkarp on Mar 29, 2024 8:00:08 GMT -5
A progressive read is reading from receiver 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (as you get sacked) - there is a clear distinction as to which is the first read and so on. A half read - is the QB is expected to only read half the field - generally keying on what a specific defender is doing. You often see college receivers on the back side of this system loafing around because they know they aint getting the rock. A pro style offense is a little muddier in the modern NFL, but it is typically used to refer to 1 back, 2 TEs, 2 receivers or 1,1,3 with QB spending significant time under center (more optional now.) The RPO with the QB being a viable option runner, the 4/5 receiver gun offenses, and various other college systems are not considered 'pro style'. I believe people consider that Michigan ran a pro style offense, Oregon did not. It is not how often you pass, but how the personnel, plays, and expectations are laid out. I feel we are saying the same thing ragrding progressions I think we are saying similar regards half reads and one reads. I do not believe Michigan ran a pro style offense. really, there is no one thing as a "pro style offense". the NFL tends to pass to set up the run. Michigan is a run first and foremost team. from what I saw they run traditional 3 WR, 1 TE, 1Rb sets, and run gap schemes. counter, trap (both which Scar loved to do) and of course power, which given their OL the past number of seasons, is their bread and butter. MIchigan runs much more play action than most all NFL teams. |
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Post by section136 on Mar 29, 2024 8:04:38 GMT -5
When you were 24, did you think you were smarter and better then a 21 year old? I know I did. When I was 24 I thought I was smarter than everyone!  |
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Mar 29, 2024 8:07:26 GMT -5
My understanding is, progressions would apply to both half and full-field reads, with the latter being more complex, and requiring quicker processing in order to execute. A lot of college QB's have the luxury of operating out of half-field reads, where WR's are schemed wide open, and they aren't required to do much at the LOS pre-snap. These offense are more simplified, and the QB can often know where he's going with the football before the ball is even snapped. They're also mostly out of the shotgun.
Pro-style offenses on the other hand are more complex and nuanced, requiring more understanding of coverage and what defenses are trying to do, making calls/audibles/adjustments pre-snap, understanding route adjustments, throwing into tighter windows, and operating out of a mix of shotgun and from under center. Now there could be some of this nuance in the college systems, but to a lesser degree.
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Post by mthurl on Mar 29, 2024 8:11:50 GMT -5
A progressive read is reading from receiver 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (as you get sacked) - there is a clear distinction as to which is the first read and so on. A half read - is the QB is expected to only read half the field - generally keying on what a specific defender is doing. You often see college receivers on the back side of this system loafing around because they know they aint getting the rock. A pro style offense is a little muddier in the modern NFL, but it is typically used to refer to 1 back, 2 TEs, 2 receivers or 1,1,3 with QB spending significant time under center (more optional now.) The RPO with the QB being a viable option runner, the 4/5 receiver gun offenses, and various other college systems are not considered 'pro style'. I believe people consider that Michigan ran a pro style offense, Oregon did not. It is not how often you pass, but how the personnel, plays, and expectations are laid out. Is Purdy a half read QB?
In a TB12 podcast, Brady elaborated about the complexity and knowledge of the Patriots' offense where the QB had to presnap processing (reading D?) and post snap processing (progressive read) of the whole field.
How would the 49ers offensive scheme be broken down? Is Purdy a half read Quarter back? I've heard that the "thinking/understanding/processing" by the QB is much, much simpler.
can someone elaborate?
Not sure on SF, but discussing Brady and our offense while he was here, Brady and the receivers had to be on the same page while they played (more so than we know). Aside from the pre snap reads BOTH the receivers and Brady had built in sight adjustments based off coverage - they would change their routes and Brady would know when that would happen and the ball would be in the air. When it worked it was bullet proof, when it didn’t you usually saw an interception and Brady screaming at the receiver or pointing at himself. |
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Post by CWTB on Mar 29, 2024 8:23:02 GMT -5
Playing Under Center hardest thing in the world for a COLLEGE QB. You need to work for deception.
Great play action, beats all DEFENSES!
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Post by backbay on Mar 29, 2024 8:47:14 GMT -5
thanks for posting, I thought that was a good video. |
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Post by backbay on Mar 29, 2024 8:52:23 GMT -5
My understanding is, progressions would apply to both half and full-field reads, with the latter being more complex, and requiring quicker processing in order to execute. A lot of college QB's have the luxury of operating out of half-field reads, where WR's are schemed wide open, and they aren't required to do much at the LOS pre-snap. These offense are more simplified, and the QB can often know where he's going with the football before the ball is even snapped. They're also mostly out of the shotgun. Pro-style offenses on the other hand are more complex and nuanced, requiring more understanding of coverage and what defenses are trying to do, making calls/audibles/adjustments pre-snap, understanding route adjustments, throwing into tighter windows, and operating out of a mix of shotgun and from under center. Now there could be some of this nuance in the college systems, but to a lesser degree. Thanks for your post. What you wrote is very much in line with what JT O'Sullivan describe in Bostonsportsfan111 posted. |
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Mar 29, 2024 8:58:32 GMT -5
My understanding is, progressions would apply to both half and full-field reads, with the latter being more complex, and requiring quicker processing in order to execute. A lot of college QB's have the luxury of operating out of half-field reads, where WR's are schemed wide open, and they aren't required to do much at the LOS pre-snap. These offense are more simplified, and the QB can often know where he's going with the football before the ball is even snapped. They're also mostly out of the shotgun. Pro-style offenses on the other hand are more complex and nuanced, requiring more understanding of coverage and what defenses are trying to do, making calls/audibles/adjustments pre-snap, understanding route adjustments, throwing into tighter windows, and operating out of a mix of shotgun and from under center. Now there could be some of this nuance in the college systems, but to a lesser degree. Thanks for your post. What you wrote is very much in line with what JT O'Sullivan describe in Bostonsportsfan111 posted. You're welcome... I really enjoy his content, too. |
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Post by backbay on Mar 29, 2024 9:02:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the posts. I really appreciate it.
Most of the videos on the QB prospects don't really discuss/assess a player's current QB style of play (Progressions, Progressions with option or in-game football intelligence?
Kurt Warner said that it's difficult to assess pre- and post- processing skills just via film alone; and that would require face to face interviews?
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