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Post by Wozzy on Apr 24, 2024 9:53:48 GMT -5
Sutton is signed for 2024 and 2025 and would cost the Pats $13m each season. his 2025 guaranteed money is 0 Surtain is also signed for 2024 (Base salary $1m) and 2025 and his salary ($20m) is guaranteed. Denver has $15m in cap spaceavailable and has $68m in cap space for 2025, assuming a flat cap, which we know will not happen. it will go up I am not advocating this deal. I would swing bigger (JJ Jefferson or Darrisaw) and picks from the Vikes. Buddy… a contract with one or two years and no guaranteed money left on it is not a masked criminal holding a gun to these player’s mother’s head forcing them to play football or else. These players could simply refuse to report to camp and demand a new deal. They’re not going to be sent to prison, that you pretend like that’s how these things work is laughable. According to Spotrac Denver is currently 3.9 million over the cap for this season. Are you lying again? Russell Wilson's release brought an $85 million dead money charge against the Broncos' salary cap over the next two years, with $53 million of that against this year's cap. Also Denver’s team sucks, royally, and they have no QB and have to find a way to sign 17 more players before camp to reach 90. This is the problem with your assessment, if the cap number doesn’t work you just shine a turd into a diamond until it does.
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Post by thejuice on Apr 24, 2024 10:52:40 GMT -5
Sutton is signed for 2024 and 2025 and would cost the Pats $13m each season. his 2025 guaranteed money is 0 Surtain is also signed for 2024 (Base salary $1m) and 2025 and his salary ($20m) is guaranteed. Denver has $15m in cap spaceavailable and has $68m in cap space for 2025, assuming a flat cap, which we know will not happen. it will go up I am not advocating this deal. I would swing bigger (JJ Jefferson or Darrisaw) and picks from the Vikes. Buddy… a contract with one or two years and no guaranteed money left on it is not a masked criminal holding a gun to these player’s mother’s head forcing them to play football or else. These players could simply refuse to report to camp and demand a new deal. They’re not going to be sent to prison, that you pretend like that’s how these things work is laughable. According to Spotrac Denver is currently 3.9 million over the cap for this season. Are you lying again? Russell Wilson's release brought an $85 million dead money charge against the Broncos' salary cap over the next two years, with $53 million of that against this year's cap. Also Denver’s team sucks, royally, and they have no QB and have to find a way to sign 17 more players before camp to reach 90. This is the problem with your assessment, if the cap number doesn’t work you just shine a turd into a diamond until it does. Spotrac has Denver with 16 mil in cap space this year fyi.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 24, 2024 11:06:40 GMT -5
Spotrac has Denver with 16 mil in cap space this year fyi. Here's ^ a screenshot from Spotrac taken 30 seconds ago, the far right number is their total cap space... what am I missing?
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Post by texaspat on Apr 24, 2024 11:18:37 GMT -5
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Post by quagmire3 on Apr 24, 2024 11:38:52 GMT -5
This reminds me Rodney Rodgers and Tony Delk for Joe Johnson AND a #1 pick! LOL In the long run these trades for older established players over potential young studs rarely work out!
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Post by rkarp on Apr 24, 2024 11:41:46 GMT -5
Sutton is signed for 2024 and 2025 and would cost the Pats $13m each season. his 2025 guaranteed money is 0 Surtain is also signed for 2024 (Base salary $1m) and 2025 and his salary ($20m) is guaranteed. Denver has $15m in cap spaceavailable and has $68m in cap space for 2025, assuming a flat cap, which we know will not happen. it will go up I am not advocating this deal. I would swing bigger (JJ Jefferson or Darrisaw) and picks from the Vikes. Buddy… a contract with one or two years and no guaranteed money left on it is not a masked criminal holding a gun to these player’s mother’s head forcing them to play football or else. These players could simply refuse to report to camp and demand a new deal. They’re not going to be sent to prison, that you pretend like that’s how these things work is laughable. According to Spotrac Denver is currently 3.9 million over the cap for this season. Are you lying again? Russell Wilson's release brought an $85 million dead money charge against the Broncos' salary cap over the next two years, with $53 million of that against this year's cap. Also Denver’s team sucks, royally, and they have no QB and have to find a way to sign 17 more players before camp to reach 90. This is the problem with your assessment, if the cap number doesn’t work you just shine a turd into a diamond until it does. Completely false They have $16m in cap space
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Post by rkarp on Apr 24, 2024 11:42:49 GMT -5
Spotrac has Denver with 16 mil in cap space this year fyi. Here's ^ a screenshot from Spotrac taken 30 seconds ago, the far right number is their total cap space... what am I missing? Everything As usual
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 24, 2024 12:00:23 GMT -5
Here's ^ a screenshot from Spotrac taken 30 seconds ago, the far right number is their total cap space... what am I missing? Everything As usual 16 million is only counting the top 51 players, the -3.9M number above represents total cap space. The laughable part of this conversation is 16 million with all their draft picks (5) that will need to be signed and the remaining 12 free agents that they'll need to bring to make 90 to camp. Now you want to factor in how much money it will cost them to re-sign their first team All-Pro CB in Surtain or extend Courtland Sutton... who they tried to trade away all offseason anyway in a fire sale? The cap is crap.... lol
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Post by thejuice on Apr 24, 2024 12:02:10 GMT -5
Spotrac has Denver with 16 mil in cap space this year fyi. Here's ^ a screenshot from Spotrac taken 30 seconds ago, the far right number is their total cap space... what am I missing? You’re in the wrong column…. The column that matters is top 51 and there they are 16 million under the cap. No team at any point in time after the league year starts in mid March, can be even $1 over the salary cap at any point in time during the season.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 24, 2024 12:04:05 GMT -5
You’re in the wrong column…. The column that matters is top 51 and there they are 16 million under the cap. No team at any point in time after the league year starts in mid March, can be even $1 over the salary cap at any point in time during the season. 16 million available to spend with five draft picks and 17 total players needed to bring 90 players to camp is broke... no matter how one spins it.
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Post by thejuice on Apr 24, 2024 13:19:45 GMT -5
You’re in the wrong column…. The column that matters is top 51 and there they are 16 million under the cap. No team at any point in time after the league year starts in mid March, can be even $1 over the salary cap at any point in time during the season. 16 million available to spend with five draft picks and 17 total players needed to bring 90 players to camp is broke... no matter how one spins it. Maybe…but it’s also definitely not 3 million over the cap
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Post by ATJ on Apr 24, 2024 14:24:31 GMT -5
Now there is an eventuality and an image that I will forever hold you personally responsible for burning into my consciousness. But the Colonoscopy comes with the greatest nap you ever take. It’s money! Pro tip: take pills not the fluid to prep. Now back to the draft…… Being of a certain age I have had a number of rather probing encounters. Kind of brings a whole new meaning to ‘not my first rodeo.’
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Post by jamesbrady2020 on Apr 24, 2024 21:54:12 GMT -5
I want an unprecedented trade package to move down from 3, especially if its to number 12. That offer listed isn't terrible, but its not close IMO. Add another two 1st round picks and remove Surtain from the trade, then it gets a little harder to turn down. The problem, as others said, is that you eventually have to pay Sutton a ton of money and your team is nowhere near good enough to win just yet.
Ultimately, its too far down IMO and you almost certainly miss out on McCarthy unless you trade back up giving up at least one of those 1sts you just got if not 2 of them.
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Post by muzwell on Apr 24, 2024 22:13:18 GMT -5
I want an unprecedented trade package to move down from 3, especially if its to number 12. That offer listed isn't terrible, but its not close IMO. Add another two 1st round picks and remove Surtain from the trade, then it gets a little harder to turn down. The problem, as others said, is that you eventually have to pay Sutton a ton of money and your team is nowhere near good enough to win just yet. Ultimately, its too far down IMO and you almost certainly miss out on McCarthy unless you trade back up giving up at least one of those 1sts you just got if not 2 of them. I’m the opposite when it comes to the players. They can keep the receiver but if they’re offering up the 23 year old stud corner I’m at least willing to listen. Age, ceiling, position scarcity, it’s all in favor of Surtain. Of course, they’ll both be wanting to get paid but I’m not paying a receiver when there are always guys just as good coming out of college. Corners like Surtain are a lot more valuable. To me anyway.
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Post by jamesbrady2020 on Apr 24, 2024 22:16:13 GMT -5
I want an unprecedented trade package to move down from 3, especially if its to number 12. That offer listed isn't terrible, but its not close IMO. Add another two 1st round picks and remove Surtain from the trade, then it gets a little harder to turn down. The problem, as others said, is that you eventually have to pay Sutton a ton of money and your team is nowhere near good enough to win just yet. Ultimately, its too far down IMO and you almost certainly miss out on McCarthy unless you trade back up giving up at least one of those 1sts you just got if not 2 of them. I’m the opposite when it comes to the players. They can keep the receiver but if they’re offering up the 23 year old stud corner I’m at least willing to listen. Age, ceiling, position scarcity, it’s all in favor of Surtain. Of course, they’ll both be wanting to get paid but I’m not paying a receiver when there are always guys just as good coming out of college. Corners like Surtain are a lot more valuable. To me anyway. The reason I chose Sutton over Surtain is only because we need receiver help in the worst way and we at least have a decent corner room when Gonzo is out there. I wouldn't hate it if you switched the 2 exactly for the reasons you mentioned. But Sutton would help us with whoever our future young QB would end up being. Plus you can then focus on tackle at the top of the 2nd round, which is what I want this team to do anyway.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 25, 2024 6:28:24 GMT -5
You’re in the wrong column…. The column that matters is top 51 and there they are 16 million under the cap. No team at any point in time after the league year starts in mid March, can be even $1 over the salary cap at any point in time during the season. 16 million available to spend with five draft picks and 17 total players needed to bring 90 players to camp is broke... no matter how one spins it. you are talking about cash to sign those players if talking about cap, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. they only need high $3m to sign their draft picks. assuming a flat cap next year, Denver has $68m available. assuming a cap increase of 5%, Denver will have $80m available next year. to think they cannot sign Surtain or Sutton is funny
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Post by muzwell on Apr 25, 2024 6:32:33 GMT -5
I’m the opposite when it comes to the players. They can keep the receiver but if they’re offering up the 23 year old stud corner I’m at least willing to listen. Age, ceiling, position scarcity, it’s all in favor of Surtain. Of course, they’ll both be wanting to get paid but I’m not paying a receiver when there are always guys just as good coming out of college. Corners like Surtain are a lot more valuable. To me anyway. The reason I chose Sutton over Surtain is only because we need receiver help in the worst way and we at least have a decent corner room when Gonzo is out there. I wouldn't hate it if you switched the 2 exactly for the reasons you mentioned. But Sutton would help us with whoever our future young QB would end up being. Plus you can then focus on tackle at the top of the 2nd round, which is what I want this team to do anyway. It’s the classic case of picking need over the best player. I think you would come to regret that choice when Surtain is making all-pro and Sutton’s career is winding down.
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Post by jamesbrady2020 on Apr 25, 2024 7:53:48 GMT -5
The reason I chose Sutton over Surtain is only because we need receiver help in the worst way and we at least have a decent corner room when Gonzo is out there. I wouldn't hate it if you switched the 2 exactly for the reasons you mentioned. But Sutton would help us with whoever our future young QB would end up being. Plus you can then focus on tackle at the top of the 2nd round, which is what I want this team to do anyway. It’s the classic case of picking need over the best player. I think you would come to regret that choice when Surtain is making all-pro and Sutton’s career is winding down. Its not like Sutton is 32 and out of his prime, he's 28. Probably will be good for at least 2-3 more years. I'm not against Surtain or anything though. That would just be my preference.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 25, 2024 7:56:12 GMT -5
you are talking about cash to sign those players if talking about cap, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. they only need high $3m to sign their draft picks. assuming a flat cap next year, Denver has $68m available. assuming a cap increase of 5%, Denver will have $80m available next year. to think they cannot sign Surtain or Sutton is funny You suggested they were available in trade… why?
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Post by rkarp on Apr 25, 2024 8:34:14 GMT -5
you are talking about cash to sign those players if talking about cap, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. they only need high $3m to sign their draft picks. assuming a flat cap next year, Denver has $68m available. assuming a cap increase of 5%, Denver will have $80m available next year. to think they cannot sign Surtain or Sutton is funny You suggested they were available in trade… why? I did not suggest they were. the OP did teams came calling on Surtain earlier in trades and Denver said no. if they are available, I assume it is because Denver wants a specific QB. Surtain for me is similar to Gonzo, Barmore and Onwenu. teams resign these guys they draft if they are top of league players, regardless if the cost is top of market. How is Denver having $80m in cap space next year and resigning both players any different than the Pats having $80m in cap space this year and resigning Dugger and Onwenu?
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 25, 2024 8:39:00 GMT -5
I did not suggest they were. the OP did Hahaha… you’re the OP.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 25, 2024 8:40:51 GMT -5
I did not suggest they were. the OP did Hahaha… you’re the OP. Mike Kadlick from eei proposed, not me
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 25, 2024 8:44:42 GMT -5
Mike Kadlick from eei proposed, not me You posted it.
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Post by thejuice on Apr 25, 2024 11:57:21 GMT -5
I’m the opposite when it comes to the players. They can keep the receiver but if they’re offering up the 23 year old stud corner I’m at least willing to listen. Age, ceiling, position scarcity, it’s all in favor of Surtain. Of course, they’ll both be wanting to get paid but I’m not paying a receiver when there are always guys just as good coming out of college. Corners like Surtain are a lot more valuable. To me anyway. The reason I chose Sutton over Surtain is only because we need receiver help in the worst way and we at least have a decent corner room when Gonzo is out there. I wouldn't hate it if you switched the 2 exactly for the reasons you mentioned. But Sutton would help us with whoever our future young QB would end up being. Plus you can then focus on tackle at the top of the 2nd round, which is what I want this team to do anyway. a shutdown cb like surtain is always going to be more (way more in fact) valuable than any decent wr.. hell, its going to be more valuable than a true stud wr imo also.
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Post by thejuice on Apr 25, 2024 11:59:14 GMT -5
Mike Kadlick from eei proposed, not me unfortunately, for mike kadlick, since he posted this yesterday morning, he is no longer employed by weei.
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