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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Apr 28, 2016 7:19:12 GMT -5
Florio thinks they should request the full court hears the case, and apparently that's something they can do that would take a long time. His rationale is that 2 Judges decided for Nflpa and 2 for NFL so there's a chance. I think Brady should keep fighting. If you're innocent, clearing your name should be the number 1 consideration. While I agree with what you are saying, that Brady should keep fighting, his name will never be clear in much of the countries mind. If you read the comments under any of Florio's articles on this subject, many of them repeatedly state all of the misinformation that was spewed during the process, and they accept it as gospel truth. Brady destroyed his phone knowing the league wanted to review it, Jastremski repeatedly called himself the deflator, Brady gifted the guys to make the psi lower, the Ideal Gas Law is BS etc, etc, etc. They were given a story and they bought it, and no dose of reality or truth is going to change their mind, because then they would have to admit they were wrong. Just a sad statement on the intelligence and open mindedness of people.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 28, 2016 7:25:54 GMT -5
Florio thinks they should request the full court hears the case, and apparently that's something they can do that would take a long time. His rationale is that 2 Judges decided for Nflpa and 2 for NFL so there's a chance. I think Brady should keep fighting. If you're innocent, clearing your name should be the number 1 consideration. While I agree with what you are saying, that Brady should keep fighting, his name will never be clear in much of the countries mind. If you read the comments under any of Florio's articles on this subject, many of them repeatedly state all of the misinformation that was spewed during the process, and they accept it as gospel truth. Brady destroyed his phone knowing the league wanted to review it, Jastremski repeatedly called himself the deflator, Brady gifted the guys to make the psi lower, the Ideal Gas Law is BS etc, etc, etc. They were given a story and they bought it, and no dose of reality or truth is going to change their mind, because then they would have to admit they were wrong. Just a sad statement on the intelligence and open mindedness of people. the rest of the country will always label the Pats cheaters because they wont bother to understand the facts of the case...same as Spygate, which was not cheating, simply pure arrogance Being exonerated by a court of law imo is just fine...I am for TB fighting this injustice to clear his name....HOWEVER, only if it does not take away from his football activities, training or preparedness...
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 28, 2016 7:33:15 GMT -5
Florio thinks they should request the full court hears the case, and apparently that's something they can do that would take a long time. His rationale is that 2 Judges decided for Nflpa and 2 for NFL so there's a chance. I think Brady should keep fighting. If you're innocent, clearing your name should be the number 1 consideration. I suspect the NFLPA will request an en banc review. I'm not sure if there is any disadvantage to them (other than cost) of requesting one. The likelihood though is it will be denied and that will pretty much end the case. I can't imagine the Supreme Court accepting this. Maybe the NFLPA can tie it up in the courts for a while by filing requests for an en banc hearing or an appeal, but that may be all they can accomplish. I'd have to look at Brady's contract, but there may actually be a financial advantage for him in taking the suspension sooner (when his salary is low) rather than later (when it's higher). That has to weigh into the decision too.
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madmc44
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Post by madmc44 on Apr 28, 2016 7:38:55 GMT -5
As I view the argument 4 judges have reviewed the case--it's 2---2. Hung jury. Case dismissed.
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 28, 2016 7:47:30 GMT -5
As I view the argument 4 judges have reviewed the case--it's 2---2. Hung jury. Case dismissed. But that's not how it works.
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Post by seawolf on Apr 28, 2016 12:38:05 GMT -5
I think Babe is correct
There is no way Goodell could hand this cess pool off with all of the lies that they were allowed to tell
The NFL would have also had to hand over the Wells Work Papers or Cross Examine Pash?
Another Arbritrator may have discovered the NFL witch hunt And maybe even have discovered that the Owners told Goodell to get the Pats at all costs because of Spygate- something Brady had nothing to do with
Goodell could never leave the barn door open for that
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Post by cyncalpatsfan on Apr 28, 2016 15:20:41 GMT -5
It's not about power. It's about the case they have. If they had a good case against Brady they would have happily sent it to an unbiased arbitrator because a favorable decision would have only made the league look good and Brady look bad. They didn't do that because they wanted to keep power. They didn't do that because they had a poor case against Brady. They actually did do this. After Goodell gave his punishment, the league league rushed (so they could get it in New York) into court to request a hearing before a judge to approve their finding in this case. That judge, Berman, ripped them to shreds to the point where Pash admitted in court that the league actually has NO evidence, NONE. The league obviously didn't like that ruling so they appealed. How these two judges could see it so dramatically opposed to Berman is what shocks me. For Chin to state the evidence is 'compelling, if not overwhelming' is just unbelievable. Did they not read Bermans finding and hear what Pash said? How could the leagues admitted NO evidence be compelling and overwhelming??
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Post by patslifer on Apr 28, 2016 15:52:50 GMT -5
Florio thinks they should request the full court hears the case, and apparently that's something they can do that would take a long time. His rationale is that 2 Judges decided for Nflpa and 2 for NFL so there's a chance. I think Brady should keep fighting. If you're innocent, clearing your name should be the number 1 consideration. I suspect the NFLPA will request an en banc review. I'm not sure if there is any disadvantage to them (other than cost) of requesting one. The likelihood though is it will be denied and that will pretty much end the case. I can't imagine the Supreme Court accepting this. Maybe the NFLPA can tie it up in the courts for a while by filing requests for an en banc hearing or an appeal, but that may be all they can accomplish. I'd have to look at Brady's contract, but there may actually be a financial advantage for him in taking the suspension sooner (when his salary is low) rather than later (when it's higher). That has to weigh into the decision too. I don't think the financial advantage plays into Brady's line of thinking what so ever. They have assembled a good team this year. One on paper that is fully capable of going very deep this year assuming health. I think that plays into his decision/pats decision more than anything. Those 4 games could mean the difference between no post season and a post season. I think that is the driving force.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 28, 2016 16:23:12 GMT -5
I suspect the NFLPA will request an en banc review. I'm not sure if there is any disadvantage to them (other than cost) of requesting one. The likelihood though is it will be denied and that will pretty much end the case. I can't imagine the Supreme Court accepting this. Maybe the NFLPA can tie it up in the courts for a while by filing requests for an en banc hearing or an appeal, but that may be all they can accomplish. I'd have to look at Brady's contract, but there may actually be a financial advantage for him in taking the suspension sooner (when his salary is low) rather than later (when it's higher). That has to weigh into the decision too. I don't think the financial advantage plays into Brady's line of thinking what so ever. They have assembled a good team this year. One on paper that is fully capable of going very deep this year assuming health. I think that plays into his decision/pats decision more than anything. Those 4 games could mean the difference between no post season and a post season. I think that is the driving force. yeah, I dont think that plays at all. I do think the team (BB) will have the loudest voice on this.(behind closed doors of course). if he thinks Brady will be a distraction or Brady will not have the chance to properly prepare for the games, he will ask Brady to sit and have a go at it with Jimmy. the team will come first, and Brady is not bigger than the team
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Post by pauldeba on Apr 28, 2016 16:37:41 GMT -5
If the en banc gets rejected, the Civil Suit Brady vs Kensil, the NFL, Goodell and Wells for $800 million in front of a jury selected from Norfolk County Residents might help the NFL change thier stance on reducing this to a fine. Mike Kensil is on record for "we weighed the balls", he and Mortensen would have to testify under oath who leaked the inaccurate psi data and as the NFL agent responsible for Game Day operations and specifically the Colt's complaint of "low psi", the amount Brady would be awarded by a Norfolk County would be triple what Brady wants and 50% from Kensil and 50% from his employer, and it would be very uncomfortable for the punks that haven't testified under oath yet. and when we get McNally and Jastremski under oath corroborating Brady, all hell will break loose. That has to be the next step if the full court hearing is rejected. Brady has two years from the Mortensen tweet under Civil statute of limitations. There is ZERO reason not to do this
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mellymel6
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Post by mellymel6 on Apr 28, 2016 16:41:37 GMT -5
The appelate review could have simply looked at what Berman did and found that he had carefully looked at issues in the case and based his ruling on careful reasoning and found just cause for his ruling, had a sound legal rationale for his findings and made no errors in law or procedure. Or, they could decide that as a question of basic law, Berman had entirely missed the point and was dead wrong. They did the later, They found that Article 46 gave the NFL Commisioner total and complete discretion under the signed CBA to render all disciplne for any and all wrongdoings of any types by NFL players and that the Players Association agreed to it by their agreement. Period. No other issues come into the argument. Period. Berman overstepped his authority, according to a majority of the appeals court. Period. It's not me saying that, it's the decision of the Appeals Court. What you're saying is true, Melly. But IF jerkoff Goodell had a case against Brady he would have sent it to a neutral arbitrator because that would have shown a fairness that few could argue with. He didn't do that because his case against Brady was pure shyt. Agreed brother Babe...the man is a gutless wonder with "itty bitty balls" as Robert Parrish would emote!
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mellymel6
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Post by mellymel6 on Apr 28, 2016 16:49:00 GMT -5
Well...what I think is of growing concern to the NFL might be a call by N.H. US Senator Shaheen's call for the NFL Commissioner to release the results of the season long effort of the NFL to "record Football presSures recorded by the NFL during games of the 2016 Season" in response to Deflategate Controversey." This is seen as a possible precursor to a request for congressional deflategate hearings...lmfao...MAY THE LORD HELP BADELL IF THIS ENTIRE THING WAS A LIE ON THE NFL'S PART AND THAT THEY NEVER TOOK ANY AIR PRESSURES DURING THE 2016 SEASON....THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE COMPLETE AND UTTER LIARS...THEN THE HEARINGS WILL COMMENCE...AND ROGER WILL END UP FIRED...WATCH...the owners will blame it all on roger the dodger
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 16:58:03 GMT -5
What you're saying is true, Melly. But IF jerkoff Goodell had a case against Brady he would have sent it to a neutral arbitrator because that would have shown a fairness that few could argue with. He didn't do that because his case against Brady was pure shyt. Agreed brother Babe...the man is a gutless wonder with "itty bitty balls" as Robert Parrish would emote! As I've noted before, I know well a number of persons who went to W&J outside Pittsburgh with Goodell. There are only 1500 students at that place. Everybody mostly knows everybody and to a man (and woman) they all were shocked he was made comish, because they all looked upon him as a nitwit.
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billge
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Post by billge on Apr 28, 2016 17:05:06 GMT -5
Same as Rick Perry at Texas A@M
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 28, 2016 20:54:16 GMT -5
If the en banc gets rejected, the Civil Suit Brady vs Kensil, the NFL, Goodell and Wells for $800 million in front of a jury selected from Norfolk County Residents might help the NFL change thier stance on reducing this to a fine. Mike Kensil is on record for "we weighed the balls", he and Mortensen would have to testify under oath who leaked the inaccurate psi data and as the NFL agent responsible for Game Day operations and specifically the Colt's complaint of "low psi", the amount Brady would be awarded by a Norfolk County would be triple what Brady wants and 50% from Kensil and 50% from his employer, and it would be very uncomfortable for the punks that haven't testified under oath yet. and when we get McNally and Jastremski under oath corroborating Brady, all hell will break loose. That has to be the next step if the full court hearing is rejected. Brady has two years from the Mortensen tweet under Civil statute of limitations. There is ZERO reason not to do thisYeah, as long as Brady doesn't mind wasting a ton of money on a suit he likely can't win.
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Post by portfolio1 on Apr 29, 2016 17:57:47 GMT -5
If the en banc gets rejected, the Civil Suit Brady vs Kensil, the NFL, Goodell and Wells for $800 million in front of a jury selected from Norfolk County Residents might help the NFL change thier stance on reducing this to a fine. Mike Kensil is on record for "we weighed the balls", he and Mortensen would have to testify under oath who leaked the inaccurate psi data and as the NFL agent responsible for Game Day operations and specifically the Colt's complaint of "low psi", the amount Brady would be awarded by a Norfolk County would be triple what Brady wants and 50% from Kensil and 50% from his employer, and it would be very uncomfortable for the punks that haven't testified under oath yet. and when we get McNally and Jastremski under oath corroborating Brady, all hell will break loose. That has to be the next step if the full court hearing is rejected. Brady has two years from the Mortensen tweet under Civil statute of limitations. There is ZERO reason not to do thisYeah, as long as Brady doesn't mind wasting a ton of money on a suit he likely can't win. There is winning and there is winning. You might just want to prove in public your innocence more than getting the money. SO while you might not win the money you could still win. Albeit for a price.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 22:06:21 GMT -5
I would be willing to bet there are lawyers out there who would work for Brady pro bono to slap the NFL down like the evil scum they are.
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Post by seawolf on Apr 30, 2016 6:10:07 GMT -5
This case is so unique in many ways hat all the odds stated by the media seem meaning bless
The big question s will a judge allow the suit or toss it?
If it's tossed then the $ loss is pretty minimal and Tom gets to go down with guns blazing but proving that he wouldn't go quietly. It would also always be said he was jobbed. It would stop those hateer from saying "see Brady really didn't tell the truth" and they will
On the other hand if he can he gets to put all these putz's on the Defensive for the first time.
He could also bring into the case that a Fed Judge said Goodell lied in the Ray Rice case. These ownersare all ready saying they want this case to stop. They will like it less when they get deposed and the lies are in the sun light. The CBA would also not shield the NFL. Pun intendd
Lastly as I keep saying,the net proceeds or a major chunk has to go to players in need. That would emphasize that it is about his name and would be a public relations big time winner. All the players would take notice. He might even be Revere D. And lastly it may give the Union the strength to make Arrival 46 go away by making more issues to to ral independent arbitrators like mlb
This is way bigger than just Tom It is also something Kraft couldn't or wouldn't do
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Post by agcsbill on Apr 30, 2016 7:56:29 GMT -5
As I said in my newly posted topic.. the NFL is fighting more to solidy the power of the commissioner to do what he pleases versus vetting out punishment for proven infractions.
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 30, 2016 9:20:00 GMT -5
As I said in my newly posted topic.. the NFL is fighting more to solidy the power of the commissioner to do what he pleases versus vetting out punishment for proven infractions. Exactly. And that's why the union is bringing Olson into the game. This has become an epic battle between business owners and their employees to determine which is in control. The owners want near absolute power to discipline their employees. The employees want more give and take. Olson will no doubt elevate the argument to one of fundamental labour rights, while Clement will argue that the bargained contract and arbitration process always takes precedence. It's just possible that Olson will be able to present the case as one with a much broader application to all labour disputes. And if he does that, he has a chance of winning an en banc review and even of getting the Supreme Court to consider hearing the case. Still, the case is no longer really about Brady. It's about employer-union relationships and the reach of collectively bargained agreements. Only by making the case about things beyond Brady and much more important than Brady does it have a chance of being heard at the next level of appeal.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 13:32:19 GMT -5
As I said in my newly posted topic.. the NFL is fighting more to solidy the power of the commissioner to do what he pleases versus vetting out punishment for proven infractions. The league is not pursuing this to solidify their power. They are doing this to chastise the Patriots. That is clear or they would have simply meted out a reasonable punishment and saw perhaps no challenge from the union to their authority at all. They are USING the language to do their dirty deed, not doing the dirty deed to validate the CBA.
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Post by prolate0spheroid on May 1, 2016 13:51:12 GMT -5
Right now, it's not the league that's pursuing anything . . . it's the union that's doing the pursuing currently.
And at this point in the game, it has nothing at all to do with the Patriots or Brady. It's simply about the power balance between union and league.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 14:05:48 GMT -5
Right now, it's not the league that's pursuing anything . . . it's the union that's doing the pursuing currently.
And at this point in the game, it has nothing at all to do with the Patriots or Brady. It's simply about the power balance between union and league. Well yeah, since they won the last court decision the league wouldn't be pursuing it, duh. State the obvious much? Of course it has to do with the Patriots and Brady, prostate0sphinctoid. The union was the one that was taking it to court and the NFL beat them to the punch to get it in NY. It's not like the NFL was looking to test the CBA in court so they over-punished Brady. You're dense.
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Post by patslifer on May 1, 2016 14:09:47 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree. After expressly stating that they would make the results public they've kept them under wraps. To say the very least that is suspicious. ATJ, do you have a source for the claim that the NFL expressly stated that they would make the results public? I'm not sure that's true. There was a lot of speculation that they would, but I'm not sure the NFL ever made any official statement to that effect.
Also, on Karp's contention that "withholding" the information is an admission of guilt, I really think people are basing that conclusion on their own perception that this was some kind of research project rather than a pure enforcement activity. I think the league always envisioned what they were doing as some kind of "speed trap" to make teams wary of violating the rules. I don't think it was ever intended as a data-gathering exercise. As with so many things in deflategate, fans' perception of what they feel should happen clouds their ability to see what's actually happening. Perhaps. But if roger was serious about checking football psi, he would have been doing it and recording it with a bit more rigor. They approached the whole thing very casually. And, if it was that important to the integrity of the league, they would have come out with a baseline punishment...if we catch any team deflating or inflating balls outside legal limits, they will lose a 1st round pick p,us whatever else based on situation. That is how you enforce a rule. Publish the punishment with the rule.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 10:45:26 GMT -5
ATJ, do you have a source for the claim that the NFL expressly stated that they would make the results public? I'm not sure that's true. There was a lot of speculation that they would, but I'm not sure the NFL ever made any official statement to that effect.
Also, on Karp's contention that "withholding" the information is an admission of guilt, I really think people are basing that conclusion on their own perception that this was some kind of research project rather than a pure enforcement activity. I think the league always envisioned what they were doing as some kind of "speed trap" to make teams wary of violating the rules. I don't think it was ever intended as a data-gathering exercise. As with so many things in deflategate, fans' perception of what they feel should happen clouds their ability to see what's actually happening. Perhaps. But if roger was serious about checking football psi, he would have been doing it and recording it with a bit more rigor. They approached the whole thing very casually. And, if it was that important to the integrity of the league, they would have come out with a baseline punishment...if we catch any team deflating or inflating balls outside legal limits, they will lose a 1st round pick p,us whatever else based on situation. That is how you enforce a rule. Publish the punishment with the rule. If the NFL had the slightest hope that checking psi would have made them look better they would have done so and published the findings in a full page ad in the NY Times, LOL. Their omission verifies their dishonesty. Paying any heed to prostate0sphinctoid is a worthless endeavor.
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