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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:16:42 GMT -5
If the league REALLY had a case against Brady they would have eagerly handed it off to a neutral arbitrator.
But they didn't have much of a case at all, so they did the outrageous parlor trick of having Vincent render the decision so Goodell could hear the appeal.
It's called, CORRUPTION. And these two creepy judges should be impeached for aiding and abetting that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:26:06 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a dictator cede any power?
The failure begins and ends with the CBA. This is just one of the unintended consequences.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:38:28 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a dictator cede any power? The failure begins and ends with the CBA. This is just one of the unintended consequences. It's not about power. It's about the case they have. If they had a good case against Brady they would have happily sent it to an unbiased arbitrator because a favorable decision would have only made the league look good and Brady look bad. They didn't do that because they wanted to keep power. They didn't do that because they had a poor case against Brady. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:55:14 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a dictator cede any power? The failure begins and ends with the CBA. This is just one of the unintended consequences. It's not about power. It's about the case they have. If they had a good case against Brady they would have happily sent it to an unbiased arbitrator because a favorable decision would have only made the league look good and Brady look bad. They didn't do that because they wanted to keep power. They didn't do that because they had a poor case against Brady. It has nothing to do with the strength of the case. Stalin, Mao, Kim Il-Sung, Castro, etc. etc. etc. would never think "Hey, I know, just to appease my countrymen, I'll forgo my usual show trial and hand this case over to a true court of law". You are forgiven for thinking like a member of a democracy. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 16:01:41 GMT -5
It's not about power. It's about the case they have. If they had a good case against Brady they would have happily sent it to an unbiased arbitrator because a favorable decision would have only made the league look good and Brady look bad. They didn't do that because they wanted to keep power. They didn't do that because they had a poor case against Brady. It has nothing to do with the strength of the case. Stalin, Mao, Kim Il-Sung, Castro, etc. etc. etc. would never think "Hey, I know, just to appease my countrymen, I'll forgo my usual show trial and hand this case over to a true court of law". You are forgiven for thinking like a member of a democracy. I think you analogy is grossly misapplied. Stalin and such didn't care what the masses thought about their actions. The NFL absolutely does. So the strength of their case means everything in this instance. They have sent such matters to arbitrators in the past, so that alone thwarts your assertion. |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 27, 2016 16:02:51 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo
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Post by tanbass on Apr 27, 2016 16:06:07 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo How the media (isn't) making a bigger deal out of this alone is what's scary. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 16:13:30 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo Despite the rants of the homers from other teams, there are a whole lot of people out there who see this whole fiasco as a black eye for the league. Obviously if a neutral arbitrator found against Brady those detractors would have much less reason to criticize the league. They didn't use a neutral arbitrator because virtually no neutral arbitrator would have rendered the decision they did. The fact they did not test/release inflation data from the ensuing season only confirms what was already widely claimed. |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 27, 2016 16:24:14 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo How the media (isn't) making a bigger deal out of this alone is what's scary. I know he is a not a fave around here, but Peter King has been |
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Apr 27, 2016 16:38:32 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a dictator cede any power? The failure begins and ends with the CBA. This is just one of the unintended consequences. It's not about power. It's about the case they have. If they had a good case against Brady they would have happily sent it to an unbiased arbitrator because a favorable decision would have only made the league look good and Brady look bad. They didn't do that because they wanted to keep power. They didn't do that because they had a poor case against Brady. They actually did do this. After Goodell gave his punishment, the league league rushed (so they could get it in New York) into court to request a hearing before a judge to approve their finding in this case. That judge, Berman, ripped them to shreds to the point where Pash admitted in court that the league actually has NO evidence, NONE. The league obviously didn't like that ruling so they appealed. How these two judges could see it so dramatically opposed to Berman is what shocks me. For Chin to state the evidence is 'compelling, if not overwhelming' is just unbelievable. Did they not read Bermans finding and hear what Pash said? How could the leagues admitted NO evidence be compelling and overwhelming?? |
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Post by pumpsiegreen on Apr 27, 2016 16:43:21 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a dictator cede any power? The failure begins and ends with the CBA. This is just one of the unintended consequences. It's not about power. It's about the case they have. If they had a good case against Brady they would have happily sent it to an unbiased arbitrator because a favorable decision would have only made the league look good and Brady look bad. They didn't do that because they wanted to keep power. They didn't do that because they had a poor case against Brady. I think its all about power. The commissioner wants everyone to be clear that its only what he believes that counts. He thinks they have a good case; ergo, he can mete out punishment to his heart's content. Unfortunately, that is what is in the CBA; all the power rests with the commissioner. He is not about to set precedent by allowing some third party to make binding decisions in cases like this. Its all a bunch of BS in my opinion. Brady should appeal this all the way to the Supreme Court and Kraft should have had the cajones to try to get his draft pick back. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 17:09:23 GMT -5
It's not about power. It's about the case they have. If they had a good case against Brady they would have happily sent it to an unbiased arbitrator because a favorable decision would have only made the league look good and Brady look bad. They didn't do that because they wanted to keep power. They didn't do that because they had a poor case against Brady. They actually did do this. After Goodell gave his punishment, the league league rushed (so they could get it in New York) into court to request a hearing before a judge to approve their finding in this case. That judge, Berman, ripped them to shreds to the point where Pash admitted in court that the league actually has NO evidence, NONE. The league obviously didn't like that ruling so they appealed. How these two judges could see it so dramatically opposed to Berman is what shocks me. For Chin to state the evidence is 'compelling, if not overwhelming' is just unbelievable. Did they not read Bermans finding and hear what Pash said? How could the leagues admitted NO evidence be compelling and overwhelming?? Chin makes no sense whatsoever to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 17:15:09 GMT -5
I think its all about power. The commissioner wants everyone to be clear that its only what he believes that counts. He thinks they have a good case; ergo, he can mete out punishment to his heart's content. Unfortunately, that is what is in the CBA; all the power rests with the commissioner. He is not about to set precedent by allowing some third party to make binding decisions in cases like this. Its all a bunch of BS in my opinion. Brady should appeal this all the way to the Supreme Court and Kraft should have had the cajones to try to get his draft pick back. That makes no sense. This judgement has not assured his power. Another case in front of different judges could easily go against him. His "power" has not been certified. But he has alienated numerous pundits, owners and fans by arbitrating this himself instead of allowing a neutral party to do it. If he had a good case it is a no-brainer to allow a neutral party to render the decision. |
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mellymel6
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Post by mellymel6 on Apr 27, 2016 17:18:49 GMT -5
The appelate review could have simply looked at what Berman did and found that he had carefully looked at issues in the case and based his ruling on careful reasoning and found just cause for his ruling, had a sound legal rationale for his findings and made no errors in law or procedure. Or, they could decide that as a question of basic law, Berman had entirely missed the point and was dead wrong. They did the later, They found that Article 46 gave the NFL Commisioner total and complete discretion under the signed CBA to render all disciplne for any and all wrongdoings of any types by NFL players and that the Players Association agreed to it by their agreement. Period. No other issues come into the argument. Period. Berman overstepped his authority, according to a majority of the appeals court. Period. It's not me saying that, it's the decision of the Appeals Court.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 17:29:33 GMT -5
The appelate review could have simply looked at what Berman did and found that he had carefully looked at issues in the case and based his ruling on careful reasoning and found just cause for his ruling, had a sound legal rationale for his findings and made no errors in law or procedure. Or, they could decide that as a question of basic law, Berman had entirely missed the point and was dead wrong. They did the later, They found that Article 46 gave the NFL Commisioner total and complete discretion under the signed CBA to render all disciplne for any and all wrongdoings of any types by NFL players and that the Players Association agreed to it by their agreement. Period. No other issues come into the argument. Period. Berman overstepped his authority, according to a majority of the appeals court. Period. It's not me saying that, it's the decision of the Appeals Court. What you're saying is true, Melly. But IF jerkoff Goodell had a case against Brady he would have sent it to a neutral arbitrator because that would have shown a fairness that few could argue with. He didn't do that because his case against Brady was pure shyt. |
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Post by pumpsiegreen on Apr 27, 2016 20:30:11 GMT -5
That makes no sense. This judgement has not assured his power. Another case in front of different judges could easily go against him. His "power" has not been certified. But he has alienated numerous pundits, owners and fans by arbitrating this himself instead of allowing a neutral party to do it. If he had a good case it is a no-brainer to allow a neutral party to render the decision. I was referring to looking at it from Goodell's perspective. I am sure he didn't want to set a precedent and allow a third party to get involved with such decisions. In his mind the court decision vindicates him. The judgement is going to get appealed. I think Goodell will likely lose, eventually. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 20:59:01 GMT -5
That makes no sense. This judgement has not assured his power. Another case in front of different judges could easily go against him. His "power" has not been certified. But he has alienated numerous pundits, owners and fans by arbitrating this himself instead of allowing a neutral party to do it. If he had a good case it is a no-brainer to allow a neutral party to render the decision. I was referring to looking at it from Goodell's perspective. I am sure he didn't want to set a precedent and allow a third party to get involved with such decisions. In his mind the court decision vindicates him. The judgement is going to get appealed. I think Goodell will likely lose, eventually. But he already has put similar matters in the hands of a third party, so that kind of puts the kibosh on your point. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 22:43:49 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo Just to be clear. The balls did not deflate. Deflation involves letting gas out. This is just about air pressure going down with temperature.
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Post by pauldeba on Apr 27, 2016 22:56:55 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo Just to be clear. The balls did not deflate. Deflation involves letting gas out. This is just about air pressure going down with temperature.
Quite telling that after 15 months of front page news and probably the most trending topic in Sports for that time that almost no people can distinguish between air volume and pressure, which is at the key topic of the whole fake scandal. |
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Post by pauldeba on Apr 28, 2016 0:48:15 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a dictator cede any power? The failure begins and ends with the CBA. This is just one of the unintended consequences. Yes, Pinochet, Musharraff, the Argentine Junta (several times), the Thai Junta, Joao Figuereido, Hugo Banzer, Taiwan, South Korea etc etc etc |
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Post by ATJ on Apr 28, 2016 5:04:23 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo I'm inclined to agree. After expressly stating that they would make the results public they've kept them under wraps. To say the very least that is suspicious. |
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Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 28, 2016 5:48:34 GMT -5
IMO the most troublesome issue was not releasing the results of the ball deflating from this seasons games. For me, keeping that info secret, is blatantly admitting that the balls deflated exactly like they did against the Colts...with holding that information is an admission of guilt imo I'm inclined to agree. After expressly stating that they would make the results public they've kept them under wraps. To say the very least that is suspicious.
Also, on Karp's contention that "withholding" the information is an admission of guilt, I really think people are basing that conclusion on their own perception that this was some kind of research project rather than a pure enforcement activity. I think the league always envisioned what they were doing as some kind of "speed trap" to make teams wary of violating the rules. I don't think it was ever intended as a data-gathering exercise. As with so many things in deflategate, fans' perception of what they feel should happen clouds their ability to see what's actually happening. |
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davedsone
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Post by davedsone on Apr 28, 2016 6:18:29 GMT -5
Florio thinks they should request the full court hears the case, and apparently that's something they can do that would take a long time. His rationale is that 2 Judges decided for Nflpa and 2 for NFL so there's a chance. I think Brady should keep fighting. If you're innocent, clearing your name should be the number 1 consideration.
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Post by belestrator on Apr 28, 2016 6:25:35 GMT -5
If the league REALLY had a case against Brady they would have eagerly handed it off to a neutral arbitrator. But they didn't have much of a case at all, so they did the outrageous parlor trick of having Vincent render the decision so Goodell could hear the appeal. It's called, CORRUPTION. And these two creepy judges should be impeached for aiding and abetting that. I fully agree. In real corporations, auditors would find this to be a separation of duties issue and a potential conflict of interest. The NFL apparently operates without any checks and balances. Putrid. |
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nyc
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Post by nyc on Apr 28, 2016 7:18:49 GMT -5
Quick and Simple: It wasn't about fairness; it was about paranoia/retribution/revenge. Human emotions and frailties that have plagued humanity since we started walking on 2 feet.
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