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Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 11:19:02 GMT -5
I tend to agree but you start by figuring out how to defend 3rd and 25. It's really quite surprising to me how poorly that play was defended from all the breakdowns I've looked at. I don't think "give the new coaches a chance" really applies to that. If you don't have someone on the staff that knows how to defend 3rd and 25, then hire someone who does. Call a better play than zero blitz, drop some defenders back in coverage and make Dak beat you... it was a poor decision by either coaches or players. Getting more aggressive at the end actually got them in trouble. Individual pass rushers need to play better, beat their man more consistently, coaches could probably call better stunts and plays as well.
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Post by TrueChamp on Oct 20, 2021 11:51:48 GMT -5
Lazar is pretty even-keeled. He's been talking about this for a while. We're playing unusually conservative, even by BB's own standards. Some of it you can get and some you can't. You think this has anything to do with having a rookie QB with only six games under his belt who as good as he's looked doesn't know the entire playbook yet? New players on offense who are still learning that playbook? At the same time, trying to bring your rookie along slowly and not put too much on him? Yes!
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Post by TrueChamp on Oct 20, 2021 11:54:42 GMT -5
How 'bout new coaches that are still learning? Learning what? I'm also not aware of any position coaches that are "new" as in first year, unless you count Vinnie Sunseri with the RB's, but that's Ivan Fears operation until he hangs'em up. Yup the coach excuse is already tired. Didn't we just get 3x superbowl champion Matt Patricia back? Isn't that an infusion of superior coaching talent? Idk...
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Post by TrueChamp on Oct 20, 2021 12:00:09 GMT -5
Do you understand the concept of getting a 50 million dollar player more involved in an offense that hasn't performed very well?
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Post by TrueChamp on Oct 20, 2021 12:09:40 GMT -5
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Post by salcon on Oct 20, 2021 12:35:37 GMT -5
How 'bout new coaches that are still learning? Learning what? I'm also not aware of any position coaches that are "new" as in first year, unless you count Vinnie Sunseri with the RB's, but that's Ivan Fears operation until he hangs'em up. So, who's the offensive line coach again? The [expletive] that opted out for Covid. The special teams coach is in his second year. Some of these guys don't have tons of experience as coaches but I guess coaching doesn't mean much to you. Edit: BB likes to build his coaching staff from inside the organization. Some of these guys may have been pushed into their roles a little earlier than desired to the loss of other coaches such as Flores and Judge.
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Post by bostonts on Oct 20, 2021 13:16:30 GMT -5
I tend to agree but you start by figuring out how to defend 3rd and 25. It's really quite surprising to me how poorly that play was defended from all the breakdowns I've looked at. I don't think "give the new coaches a chance" really applies to that. If you don't have someone on the staff that knows how to defend 3rd and 25, then hire someone who does. Call a better play than zero blitz, drop some defenders back in coverage and make Dak beat you... it was a poor decision by either coaches or players. Getting more aggressive at the end actually got them in trouble. Individual pass rushers need to play better, beat their man more consistently, coaches could probably call better stunts and plays as well. Yes, obviously the players aren't off the hook and I have no way of knowing if they were freelancing and not where they were supposed to be. But it just seemed like a poorly coached play. And yes, they do have to be careful about getting aggressive if you define aggression as rushing the passer with extra guys. Right now the second corner is getting picked on in those situations etc.
But if you define aggression as going for it a bit more offensively, I think it's past time for that type of aggression.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 13:18:41 GMT -5
All TE's block, at least in this offense. In a West Coast offense like KC's not so much. Fix the blocking, fix the penalties and the production will fix itself. Throw to the open man.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 13:26:52 GMT -5
Yes, obviously the players aren't off the hook and I have no way of knowing if they were freelancing and not where they were supposed to be. But it just seemed like a poorly coached play. And yes, they do have to be careful about getting aggressive if you define aggression as rushing the passer with extra guys. Right now the second corner is getting picked on in those situations etc.
But if you define aggression as going for it a bit more offensively, I think it's past time for that type of aggression.
It was a poorly called play I think, I don't see one of the linebackers changing the play to a zero blitz at the line. It is indicative of the play of the entire team, the team needs a play and somebody jumps offsides, they enter the red zone and there's a false start creating a 1st and 20, they need a score and a RB fumbles or a WR/TE lets the ball fly off his hands, they need to string drives together but OL miss blocking assignments, they need to prevent a first down and a defensive coach calls a terrible play... there's no one person at fault, but the coaches are tasked with fixing it. Ultimately shit rolls downhill and the buck stops at Belichick. I've never once seen BB make excuses or point the blame outwards... and he isn't now. They aren't good enough, they need to coach better, practice better and play better... that's not lip service, he means it when he says it.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Oct 20, 2021 13:35:34 GMT -5
Learning what? I'm also not aware of any position coaches that are "new" as in first year, unless you count Vinnie Sunseri with the RB's, but that's Ivan Fears operation until he hangs'em up. So, who's the offensive line coach again? The [expletive] that opted out for Covid. The special teams coach is in his second year. Some of these guys don't have tons of experience as coaches but I guess coaching doesn't mean much to you. Edit: BB likes to build his coaching staff from inside the organization. Some of these guys may have been pushed into their roles a little earlier than desired to the loss of other coaches such as Flores and Judge. Carmen Bricillo is in his 2nd season as the OL coach and 3rd with the team. Cameron Achord is in his 2nd season as the ST coordinator and 4th with the team. Actually the only "rookie" position coach is QB coach Bo Hardegree, and you could argue that he's done well, as Mac has played well, despite his lack of experience... and the issues up front, etc. In what way does coaching not mean much to me? If you're telling me that BB hired the wrong guys (or pushed them into roles a little earlier than desired), that's a knock on BB for not identifying the coaches that give him the best chance to win. BB doesn't have to hire from within, just because he likes to. If the coaching talent isn't there, then he should go elsewhere.
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Post by bostonts on Oct 20, 2021 13:37:33 GMT -5
Yes, obviously the players aren't off the hook and I have no way of knowing if they were freelancing and not where they were supposed to be. But it just seemed like a poorly coached play. And yes, they do have to be careful about getting aggressive if you define aggression as rushing the passer with extra guys. Right now the second corner is getting picked on in those situations etc.
But if you define aggression as going for it a bit more offensively, I think it's past time for that type of aggression.
It was a poorly called play I think, I don't see one of the linebackers changing the play to a zero blitz at the line. It is indicative of the play of the entire team, the team needs a play and somebody jumps offsides, they enter the red zone and there's a false start creating a 1st and 20, they need a score and a RB fumbles or a WR/TE lets the ball fly off his hands, they need to string drives together but OL miss blocking assignments, they need to prevent a first down and a defensive coach calls a terrible play... there's no one person at fault, but the coaches are tasked with fixing it. Ultimately shit rolls downhill and the buck stops at Belichick. I've never once seen BB make excuses or point the blame outwards... and he isn't now. They aren't good enough, they need to coach better, practice better and play better... that's not lip service, he means it when he says it. Yeah, I agree with just about all of that, but - I didn't like BB's answer to the 3rd and 25 play .
Granted, it was a presser, but I would have liked to hear something more like "We have to do a better job on that one" or "That can't happen" or "we needed to coach that one better" or even "I am going to take a hard look at the film as that can't happen."
I instead he gave a lot of credit to the other side for making a play, as if the D was good and a good play was simply made. That's not how I see that play, it should take an incredible play on O to beat a 3rd and 25 situation on one pass.
Other than that I don't really disagree with what you're saying at all and I agree BB means it. Now he has to execute on it and show that this year's team can improve like so many of his teams have in the past.
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Post by salcon on Oct 20, 2021 14:28:23 GMT -5
So, who's the offensive line coach again? The [expletive] that opted out for Covid. The special teams coach is in his second year. Some of these guys don't have tons of experience as coaches but I guess coaching doesn't mean much to you. Edit: BB likes to build his coaching staff from inside the organization. Some of these guys may have been pushed into their roles a little earlier than desired to the loss of other coaches such as Flores and Judge. Carmen Bricillo is in his 2nd season as the OL coach and 3rd with the team. Cameron Achord is in his 2nd season as the ST coordinator and 4th with the team. Actually the only "rookie" position coach is QB coach Bo Hardegree, and you could argue that he's done well, as Mac has played well, despite his lack of experience... and the issues up front, etc. In what way does coaching not mean much to me? If you're telling me that BB hired the wrong guys (or pushed them into roles a little earlier than desired), that's a knock on BB for not identifying the coaches that give him the best chance to win. BB doesn't have to hire from within, just because he likes to. If the coaching talent isn't there, then he should go elsewhere. I'm not saying the coaching talent isn't there but it may need further development. Sure, Bill could get coaches elsewhere but how long have you been following this team? You know that's not how he operates. Some are in their second year but perhaps put in that position a year earlier than desired. So maybe they're still learning? Yes, some of these guys have been with the team longer but in what capacity before or earlier in their tenure? The assistant to the assistant coffee guy?
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Post by patriotsnumero1fan on Oct 20, 2021 15:00:07 GMT -5
This brung all these so called weapons only to be conservative. Maybe they get aggressive against the jests but i doubt it. Jonnu Smith and Agholor have been bust pickups up to this point.
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Post by patriotsnumero1fan on Oct 20, 2021 15:02:41 GMT -5
The cap number for jonnu smith in 2022 and 2023 is such a waste .
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mikeod
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
Posts: 769
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Post by mikeod on Oct 20, 2021 15:09:31 GMT -5
The cap number for jonnu smith in 2022 and 2023 is such a waste . C’mon. The man is only 6 games into his first year with a new team. If your judging by receptions, yards, TDs, you may be missing what the team is actually asking him to do each play. With the current status of the OL, he may have to focus more on blocking than receiving for now, especially since Mac appears to have synch’d with Henry.
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Post by rkarp on Oct 20, 2021 15:12:46 GMT -5
This brung all these so called weapons only to be conservative. Maybe they get aggressive against the jests but i doubt it. Jonnu Smith and Agholor have been bust pickups up to this point. they brought in all these weapons for Cam. they may have been more aggressive with Cam I thiknk they prefer to spoon feed Mac and bring him along exactly like they have been. It is working very, very well for Mac Maybe not so much for the free agents signed or the team, but those are the growing pains with a rookie QB
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Post by muzwell on Oct 20, 2021 15:51:32 GMT -5
The cap number for jonnu smith in 2022 and 2023 is such a waste . What is this "cap" you speak of? There were rumors of some sort of cap back in the oughts, but no solid proof of any such thing has surfaced that I'm aware of. There was this photo but it can't be verified as anything other than hoax, although cap-like features do seem vaguely prominent. I wouldn't be overly concerned.
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Post by backbay on Oct 20, 2021 17:34:22 GMT -5
The cap number for jonnu smith in 2022 and 2023 is such a waste . C’mon. The man is only 6 games into his first year with a new team. If your judging by receptions, yards, TDs, you may be missing what the team is actually asking him to do each play. With the current status of the OL, he may have to focus more on blocking than receiving for now, especially since Mac appears to have synch’d with Henry. but, according to some, his resume is so spectacular. What amaaaazing performance elsewhere. He's a Veteran, shouldn't he know how to block like Gronk, catch like Gronk, using his body like Gronk to position self properly for catches, win the majority of 50/50 balls?
Protecting QB1 should have been everyone's priority from day 1 of training.
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Post by backbay on Oct 20, 2021 17:43:09 GMT -5
This brung all these so called weapons only to be conservative. Maybe they get aggressive against the jests but i doubt it. Jonnu Smith and Agholor have been bust pickups up to this point. they brought in all these weapons for Cam. they may have been more aggressive with Cam I thiknk they prefer to spoon feed Mac and bring him along exactly like they have been. It is working very, very well for Mac Maybe not so much for the free agents signed or the team, but those are the growing pains with a rookie QB Probably many reasons why to go conservative with Mac Jones - the main one is to minimize INTs. The coaches really didn't know what they had come game 1 - with anyone new to the team. I think it was the right call - BUT Mac has shown a great deal of poise and has performed above my expectations - and the coaches probably should have been more dynamic and give him more along the way - SOONER. IMO, it's the other players who have played below expectations. They were all veterans with stellar resumes with other teams, right?
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Post by TrueChamp on Oct 20, 2021 20:28:14 GMT -5
The cap number for jonnu smith in 2022 and 2023 is such a waste . C’mon. The man is only 6 games into his first year with a new team. If your judging by receptions, yards, TDs, you may be missing what the team is actually asking him to do each play. With the current status of the OL, he may have to focus more on blocking than receiving for now, especially since Mac appears to have synch’d with Henry. But if he's only on the field for 30% of the passing plays and he's been known as a weaker blocking TE, does that bode well for your confidence in him? Bill didn't give him chump change. The New England Patriots inked tight end Jonnu Smith to a four-year contract worth $50 million, including a $15 million signing bonus and $31.25 million in guaranteed money. His average annual earnings will be $12.5 million, tied with his new teammate Hunter Henry for third-most among tight ends in the NFL.Apr. 13, 2021
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 20:34:41 GMT -5
What is this "cap" you speak of? There were rumors of some sort of cap back in the oughts, but no solid proof of any such thing has surfaced that I'm aware of. There was this photo but it can't be verified as anything other than hoax, although cap-like features do seem vaguely prominent. I wouldn't be overly concerned.
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Post by muzwell on Oct 20, 2021 21:10:55 GMT -5
What is this "cap" you speak of? There were rumors of some sort of cap back in the oughts, but no solid proof of any such thing has surfaced that I'm aware of. There was this photo but it can't be verified as anything other than hoax, although cap-like features do seem vaguely prominent. I wouldn't be overly concerned. Aye. It was said back in the day that the cap would swallow up an entire team and leave it for dead. Laid to waste, a shell of itself. A terrible thing to see. They even came up with a name, called it “dead money.” That dead money will bring the whole lot of you down, they’d say. And you could tell by the far away look in their eyes, they believed it. This was a real thing they’d seen. They’d never be the same. Poor bastards. But, there’s a new breed now. They laugh at the cap. Like it never existed. Like a shark with no teeth. What’s it gonna gum you to death? They enjoy coming up with clever new ways of getting over on it. They’re taunting it, teasing it. Even the great sickness of ‘20 when the cap was supposed to be at its most ferocious was no match for these whiz kids. Like it never happened. But the old timers say it’s just a matter of time. Dead money will get you, they say. It’ll get all of you smartasses, they say. Old fools.
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Post by lowfbiq on Oct 20, 2021 21:37:45 GMT -5
Going for it worked out swimmingly for the Bills Monday night. Oh, wait. ...but but wait there's always the fans who think going from a 38% probability of win to a 44% probability of a win is something to get worked up about even though BOTH are still well BELOW 50% probability of a win. SMH Also assume the inverse is true. Go for it on 4th down and FAIL your loss probability goes up by taking the bigger gamble. Cowboys analytics must have said yeah go for it on 4th down from your own 30 something yard line. Got stuffed and Pats promptly drove a very short 30+ yards for a quick TD. Also probably thought going for it on 4th down at the goal line was an analytics gimmie till it ended in a touchback. Cowboys analytics dept. Probably just said oopsie after neither one worked out.
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Post by mthurl on Oct 21, 2021 3:44:37 GMT -5
Do you understand the concept of getting a 50 million dollar player more involved in an offense that hasn't performed very well? Well, truthfully it’s just another BS answer from Belichick to detract from Junno not getting it done on the field. No one is saying throw it to him 10 times a game, he’d have to be good to attempt that. Out of all the signings this off season, this is the most disappointing to me...I figured this guy would be a huge upside signing and a guy who would not have a problem getting THERE. Wrong. No maybe if the offensive line looked better/played better Junno would look better too, but some of the drops he’s had and how limited he’s been in the passing game? I’m concerned because this was not supposed to happen. I’m going to hold out faith a little bit longer on him, but it’s not looking good. Agoholor is another one - that drop Sunday was absolutely horrendous - and his weekly disappearing acts are too.
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Post by backbay on Oct 21, 2021 19:19:44 GMT -5
Do you understand the concept of getting a 50 million dollar player more involved in an offense that hasn't performed very well? Well, truthfully it’s just another BS answer from Belichick to detract from Junno not getting it done on the field. No one is saying throw it to him 10 times a game, he’d have to be good to attempt that. Out of all the signings this off season, this is the most disappointing to me...I figured this guy would be a huge upside signing and a guy who would not have a problem getting THERE. Wrong. No maybe if the offensive line looked better/played better Junno would look better too, but some of the drops he’s had and how limited he’s been in the passing game? I’m concerned because this was not supposed to happen. I’m going to hold out faith a little bit longer on him, but it’s not looking good. Agoholor is another one - that drop Sunday was absolutely horrendous - and his weekly disappearing acts are too. isn't Smith guaranteed $30+ mil out of the $50 mil? $15 mil bonus just to sign? Maybe he feels he scored big time in the bank - and doesn't care what happens on field.
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