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Post by ATJ on Apr 7, 2024 5:23:32 GMT -5
Could the Patriots have a Texans-like turnaround under Mayo?
Mike Reiss, ESPN Staff Writer
Apr 7, 2024, 06:00 AM ET
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- Quick-hit thoughts and notes around the New England Patriots and NFL:
1. Texans-like turnaround? First-year head coach Jerod Mayo was at the grocery store recently when a fan came up to him with a message of support. Kind of.
Summing up the challenge Mayo faces in his role, the fan said: "Houston did it!"
Mayo told that story to a group of season-ticket members last weekend, and then a few days later, the Texans were creating more buzz by acquiring receiver Stefon Diggs in a trade with the Bills. The outlook surrounding the Texans has been turned upside down from this time last year, a change that can spark hope -- and expectations -- for a rebuilding team like the Patriots.
The Texans, having solidified the quarterback position with C.J. Stroud as the No. 2 pick in the 2023 draft, went 10-7 and won the AFC South last season.
But there were two lean seasons before that -- 4-13 in 2021 under coach David Culley and 3-13-1 in 2022 under coach Lovie Smith. As a result, the job security and influence of former Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio, Houston's general manager, was viewed by some as shaky when the franchise hired former Texans linebacker DeMeco Ryans as head coach last offseason.
Those questions have been now extinguished, which shows how quickly things can change in the NFL, a point Mayo wanted to amplify.
"Remember, Caserio had been building that team for [two] years before they got C.J. Stroud in that position," he said. "So when you look at our team -- I'm not asking for patience, but I kind of am. It's a process. It's not only about the quarterback. Obviously you want to have that QB1 and build around him, but it doesn't always happen when you want it."
The Patriots have eight picks in the draft as of now, headlined by No. 3 and then high selections in the second (No. 34), third (No. 68) and fourth (No. 103) rounds.
Many assume they'll use the top pick on a quarterback. They had North Carolina's Drake Maye in for a visit Friday, LSU's Jayden Daniels is scheduled to be in town Tuesday and Michigan's J.J. McCarthy is expected to follow him the next week.
But Mayo's words also highlight the possibility that the team goes in a different direction -- perhaps trading down if another team offers "a bag" that is too good to pass up. Or even sticking and picking a player at a different position of significant need, such as receivers Marvin Harrison Jr. (Ohio State) and Malik Nabers (LSU) or offensive tackle Joe Alt (Notre Dame).
If it's the quarterback, as many expect, Mayo shared his viewpoint of how his coaching staff will approach things.
"Look, we could bring a QB in here and he may not be ready to play, realistically," he said. "That's why we have a guy like Jacoby [Brissett] coming along. Jacoby is great. He can still play football and also mentor someone in that room, and he has a connection to that offense with [offensive coordinator Alex] Van Pelt, so he can always be that teacher. That's how we're looking at it."
2. Hunter leads: The Patriots begin their voluntary offseason program early this week -- the first two weeks are limited to meetings, physical rehabilitation and strength and conditioning -- and veteran tight end, and returning captain, Hunter Henry plans to be among the team leaders in attendance.
As part of the three-year, $27 million contract Henry signed in March, he received a $350,000 workout bonus, one of the highest on the team. Brissett has the highest workout bonus among New England players at $500,000.
3. Guyton in town: The Patriots had several prospects at their facility last week as part of their allotted 30 pre-draft visits, with Oklahoma offensive tackle Tyler Guyton among them. The 6-foot-8, 322-pound Guyton is part of a strong OT class, but if the Patriots' visit with Guyton is reflective of legitimate interest, it might be asking too much to expect him to be there at the top of the second round at pick No. 34.
As ESPN analyst Field Yates noted on a draft conference call, several teams in the 20s have needs at offensive tackle, which could spark a run at the position. Yates had Guyton off the board at No. 25 to the Packers in his two-round mock draft.
4. Meaningful murals: Mayo has consistently talked about how he views "developing people" as a key part of his job as coach, and one early example of this is showing up on the walls inside the team facility.
Players who have entered the space within team offices in recent weeks have noted freshly painted walls -- by artists specializing in design -- as sending a powerful message to them about the importance of setting a positive example to their children, and the critical responsibility they have as parents, among other things. "A pleasant surprise," was how one player described it.
5. Diggs' departure: The good news for the Patriots is that Diggs, who has totaled 55 receptions for 702 yards and seven touchdowns in nine games against New England, is out of the AFC East. The 55 catches are Diggs' second-highest total against any team, as are the 7 TDs, while the 702 yards are third highest.
The bad news for the Patriots -- they'll still see Diggs next season as Houston is scheduled to visit New England. As for when that will happen, the full 2024 schedule will be released in May.
6. They said it: "Eliot [Wolf], [The Patriots' director of scouting] has the final decision, but at the same time, there's a lot that goes into that final decision. It's kind of like a call sheet. You get to a game with a call sheet, it's really already done. There's no bad play on a call sheet. The one benefit of being at three is that if we like the top five quarterbacks, we'll have our pick at No. 3. It doesn't really matter -- that's kind of how we're looking at it." -- Mayo
7. Local pro day: The Patriots hosted 23 prospects as part of their local pro day Thursday, which is for players from New England colleges or those from the region who play at schools outside New England.
For prospects such as Springfield College defensive end Quinn Sweeney (Hanson, Massachusetts) and Bentley linebacker Sal Lupoli Jr. (Chelmsford, Massachusetts), imagine the feeling they had walking through the doors of their hometown team as they strive to keep their longshot NFL dreams alive.
8. Trader Nick: As mentioned earlier, Caserio came up the ranks under former coach Bill Belichick in Foxboro, and one reminder of that is how often he wheels and deals. Consider that since Caserio became Texans general manager in January 2021, he has completed 41 trades, which is nine more than any other team. Belichick (a.k.a. "Trader Bill") would approve.
9. BB the Husky: Belichick doesn't have a full-time coaching job for the first time since 1975, which might turn out to be the University of Washington's gain. Belichick was dressed in UW gear for spring practice Saturday. He obviously has strong ties to the program with his son, Steve, serving as defensive coordinator, and head coach Jedd Fisch having been on the Patriots' staff in 2020.
10. Did you know: Diggs had 445 receptions in his four seasons with the Bills, which was the third most by a player over a four-year span who began the following season with a different team. Wes Welker's 449 receptions with the Patriots from 2009 to 2012, before he landed with Denver, are the most.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 7, 2024 5:50:00 GMT -5
I think the whole “building” a team is a bit of a cop out, especially when Mayo reminds us of it with Houston. I thought we were already rebuilding our own team the previous 2-3 years? And that’s the rub, without a QB you are always rebuilding, and then when you finally acquire a good one, guess what? All of the sudden your “rebuilding efforts” are brought to fruition.
Right now our team needs a QB, left tackle and receiver. They appear set on defense, but guess what, even if we do acquire the QB, receiver and left tackle THIS YEAR, next year we will need to rebuild the defense, offensive line center, tight end and who knows what else. Every team is rebuilding every single year, it’s just much more noticeable when you don’t have a QB.
Mayo is trying to buy time. And I guess he should because whoever they draft probably won’t be ready to play right away, and shouldn’t play right away without a left tackle being able to protect him. Get the QB now, let him sit and most likely we’ll be selecting in the top 5-7 next year and next season the young QB will walk out onto that field with hopefully more talent on offense, but keep in mind that other pieces of the team will then need to be “rebuilt” as well. But honestly if they do draft the QB, I’d try to get his starts towards the end if his rookie season…even if it’s handing the ball off and carefully throwing safe short stuff (kind of like Mac Jones first 7-8 games here that everyone goes Gaga over when it really was training wheels football that seemed successful until everyone figured out that the kid couldn’t throw better than a 13 year old girl).
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Post by rkarp on Apr 7, 2024 5:59:10 GMT -5
I think the whole “building” a team is a bit of a cop out, especially when Mayo reminds us of it with Houston. I thought we were already rebuilding our own team the previous 2-3 years? And that’s the rub, without a QB you are always rebuilding, and then when you finally acquire a good one, guess what? All of the sudden your “rebuilding efforts” are brought to fruition. Right now our team needs a QB, left tackle and receiver. They appear set on defense, but guess what, even if we do acquire the QB, receiver and left tackle THIS YEAR, next year we will need to rebuild the defense, offensive line center, tight end and who knows what else. Every team is rebuilding every single year, it’s just much more noticeable when you don’t have a QB. Mayo is trying to buy time. And I guess he should because whoever they draft probably won’t be ready to play right away, and shouldn’t play right away without a left tackle being able to protect him. Get the QB now, let him sit and most likely we’ll be selecting in the top 5-7 next year and next season the young QB will walk out onto that field with hopefully more talent on offense, but keep in mind that other pieces of the team will then need to be “rebuilt” as well. But honestly if they do draft the QB, I’d try to get his starts towards the end if his rookie season…even if it’s handing the ball off and carefully throwing safe short stuff (kind of like Mac Jones first 7-8 games here that everyone goes Gaga over when it really was training wheels football that seemed successful until everyone figured out that the kid couldn’t throw better than a 13 year old girl). huh? rebuilding the past 2-3 years? with piss poor drafts? lousy free agent signs? the team has major voids on offense, not only at QB. the past 2-3 years, the team has regressed. this is currently a 4 win roster. the OP says it all. we are striving to be the Texans. |
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Post by mthurl on Apr 7, 2024 6:18:12 GMT -5
I think the whole “building” a team is a bit of a cop out, especially when Mayo reminds us of it with Houston. I thought we were already rebuilding our own team the previous 2-3 years? And that’s the rub, without a QB you are always rebuilding, and then when you finally acquire a good one, guess what? All of the sudden your “rebuilding efforts” are brought to fruition. Right now our team needs a QB, left tackle and receiver. They appear set on defense, but guess what, even if we do acquire the QB, receiver and left tackle THIS YEAR, next year we will need to rebuild the defense, offensive line center, tight end and who knows what else. Every team is rebuilding every single year, it’s just much more noticeable when you don’t have a QB. Mayo is trying to buy time. And I guess he should because whoever they draft probably won’t be ready to play right away, and shouldn’t play right away without a left tackle being able to protect him. Get the QB now, let him sit and most likely we’ll be selecting in the top 5-7 next year and next season the young QB will walk out onto that field with hopefully more talent on offense, but keep in mind that other pieces of the team will then need to be “rebuilt” as well. But honestly if they do draft the QB, I’d try to get his starts towards the end if his rookie season…even if it’s handing the ball off and carefully throwing safe short stuff (kind of like Mac Jones first 7-8 games here that everyone goes Gaga over when it really was training wheels football that seemed successful until everyone figured out that the kid couldn’t throw better than a 13 year old girl). huh? rebuilding the past 2-3 years? with piss poor drafts? lousy free agent signs? the team has major voids on offense, not only at QB. the past 2-3 years, the team has regressed. this is currently a 4 win roster. the OP says it all. we are striving to be the Texans. I think what you’re missing here rkarp is what the definition of “rebuilding” in the NFL truly is. It’s total BS. What is different between one team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players, compared to another team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players? One team team calls it rebuilding and the other team calls it the off season. The fact that our “rebuild” failed doesn’t change the fact that we were in a “rebuild”. Same for a team that was successful and wasn’t in a “rebuild”. Both teams added new players at vital positions. Except the team that had a franchise QB won football games, the other didn’t. |
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Post by digger0862 on Apr 7, 2024 6:20:24 GMT -5
"I'm not asking for patience, but I kind of am." What? Learn some logic.
'freshly painted walls -- by artists specializing in design' Huh? Don't all artists specialize in design?
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 7, 2024 6:56:03 GMT -5
I think the whole “building” a team is a bit of a cop out, especially when Mayo reminds us of it with Houston. I thought we were already rebuilding our own team the previous 2-3 years? And that’s the rub, without a QB you are always rebuilding, and then when you finally acquire a good one, guess what? All of the sudden your “rebuilding efforts” are brought to fruition. Right now our team needs a QB, left tackle and receiver. They appear set on defense, but guess what, even if we do acquire the QB, receiver and left tackle THIS YEAR, next year we will need to rebuild the defense, offensive line center, tight end and who knows what else. Every team is rebuilding every single year, it’s just much more noticeable when you don’t have a QB. Mayo is trying to buy time. And I guess he should because whoever they draft probably won’t be ready to play right away, and shouldn’t play right away without a left tackle being able to protect him. Get the QB now, let him sit and most likely we’ll be selecting in the top 5-7 next year and next season the young QB will walk out onto that field with hopefully more talent on offense, but keep in mind that other pieces of the team will then need to be “rebuilt” as well. But honestly if they do draft the QB, I’d try to get his starts towards the end if his rookie season…even if it’s handing the ball off and carefully throwing safe short stuff (kind of like Mac Jones first 7-8 games here that everyone goes Gaga over when it really was training wheels football that seemed successful until everyone figured out that the kid couldn’t throw better than a 13 year old girl). If CJ Stroud joined the 2021 Patriots they would have contended for a championship immediately. If he joined the 2020 roster they, still would been middling to poor. The Patriots after 2019 needed a rebuild, a bad roster with a good QB position still isn’t winning. That being said they missed badly on Mac Jones and still need a QB, they still have the most cap space, all their draft picks and a good roster outside of the QB position and left tackle. If they draft really well at the end of the month the Pats could be very competitive with Brissett starting. The Pats don’t need to rebuild anything now, they just need a QB… but that doesn’t dismiss the need for some teams in need of a total rebuild. Dead last in dead cap, missing draft picks, old aged out roster… some teams need a total rebuild that even a single good rookie QB won’t fix. |
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Post by philskiw on Apr 7, 2024 6:56:49 GMT -5
"I'm not asking for patience, but I kind of am." What? Learn some logic. 'freshly painted walls -- by artists specializing in design' Huh? Don't all artists specialize in design? hopefully the “art” has deep meaning. Probably doesn’t do much for daycare but Thunderstick thinks it’s nice. Wow my double wife has a new coat of paint! It’s still a double wide |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 7, 2024 7:11:33 GMT -5
huh? rebuilding the past 2-3 years? with piss poor drafts? lousy free agent signs? the team has major voids on offense, not only at QB. the past 2-3 years, the team has regressed. this is currently a 4 win roster. the OP says it all. we are striving to be the Texans. I think what you’re missing here rkarp is what the definition of “rebuilding” in the NFL truly is. It’s total BS. What is different between one team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players, compared to another team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players? One team team calls it rebuilding and the other team calls it the off season. The fact that our “rebuild” failed doesn’t change the fact that we were in a “rebuild”. Same for a team that was successful and wasn’t in a “rebuild”. Both teams added new players at vital positions. Except the team that had a franchise QB won football games, the other didn’t. Reiff is rebuilding? Anderson is rebuilding? Drafting 4IOL in2 years is rebuilding? Not! |
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 7, 2024 7:18:18 GMT -5
"I'm not asking for patience, but I kind of am." What? Learn some logic. 'freshly painted walls -- by artists specializing in design' Huh? Don't all artists specialize in design? If the left tackle they draft ends up sucking, and the almost inevitable happens that Chuka Okorafor sucks... after this season lands with a thud they'll say they need more time. The reality is they could have signed any number of good free agent left tackles this offseason for similar money (they could still sign Andrus Peat right now!) and the entire offensive line would be set assuming health. They could have a really good offensive line. Then they could focus all 8 draft picks on offense and adding talent at QB and weapons... it would be a luxury draft. Fix the O-Line now... I'll have patience for a rookie QB to develop, I won't have patience for a GM making rookie personnel moves like signing a terrible free agent left tackle. |
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Post by wazzu on Apr 7, 2024 8:35:57 GMT -5
huh? rebuilding the past 2-3 years? with piss poor drafts? lousy free agent signs? the team has major voids on offense, not only at QB. the past 2-3 years, the team has regressed. this is currently a 4 win roster. the OP says it all. we are striving to be the Texans. I think what you’re missing here rkarp is what the definition of “rebuilding” in the NFL truly is. It’s total BS. What is different between one team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players, compared to another team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players? One team team calls it rebuilding and the other team calls it the off season. The fact that our “rebuild” failed doesn’t change the fact that we were in a “rebuild”. Same for a team that was successful and wasn’t in a “rebuild”. Both teams added new players at vital positions. Except the team that had a franchise QB won football games, the other didn’t. Great post. Agree 100% |
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Post by mthurl on Apr 8, 2024 3:33:19 GMT -5
I think the whole “building” a team is a bit of a cop out, especially when Mayo reminds us of it with Houston. I thought we were already rebuilding our own team the previous 2-3 years? And that’s the rub, without a QB you are always rebuilding, and then when you finally acquire a good one, guess what? All of the sudden your “rebuilding efforts” are brought to fruition. Right now our team needs a QB, left tackle and receiver. They appear set on defense, but guess what, even if we do acquire the QB, receiver and left tackle THIS YEAR, next year we will need to rebuild the defense, offensive line center, tight end and who knows what else. Every team is rebuilding every single year, it’s just much more noticeable when you don’t have a QB. Mayo is trying to buy time. And I guess he should because whoever they draft probably won’t be ready to play right away, and shouldn’t play right away without a left tackle being able to protect him. Get the QB now, let him sit and most likely we’ll be selecting in the top 5-7 next year and next season the young QB will walk out onto that field with hopefully more talent on offense, but keep in mind that other pieces of the team will then need to be “rebuilt” as well. But honestly if they do draft the QB, I’d try to get his starts towards the end if his rookie season…even if it’s handing the ball off and carefully throwing safe short stuff (kind of like Mac Jones first 7-8 games here that everyone goes Gaga over when it really was training wheels football that seemed successful until everyone figured out that the kid couldn’t throw better than a 13 year old girl). If CJ Stroud joined the 2021 Patriots they would have contended for a championship immediately. If he joined the 2020 roster they, still would been middling to poor. The Patriots after 2019 needed a rebuild, a bad roster with a good QB position still isn’t winning. That being said they missed badly on Mac Jones and still need a QB, they still have the most cap space, all their draft picks and a good roster outside of the QB position and left tackle. If they draft really well at the end of the month the Pats could be very competitive with Brissett starting. The Pats don’t need to rebuild anything now, they just need a QB… but that doesn’t dismiss the need for some teams in need of a total rebuild. Dead last in dead cap, missing draft picks, old aged out roster… some teams need a total rebuild that even a single good rookie QB won’t fix. Every team tries to improve their roster every year. Every single year. Fan boys call that a rebuild - as if contractors are hired and walls are torn down, supports are installed and a brand new $80,000 dollar kitchen is installed - with new flooring, cabinets, appliances and twelve foot ceilings. Meanwhile the dinning room is falling apart and will need to be replaced next year. Every team has a salary cap (we hear this every year), every team has draft picks, the ability to make trades, cut players, sign players, bring in a new positional coach (or two or three). This is NFL football ^^, it’s not a general contractor that shows up at the house of some 40 year old that just inherited $200k from grandma and is installing an in-ground pool accompanied by 50 grand of hard scape and an outside fireplace. When you have no quarterback your team sucks, plain and simple. Doesn’t matter about much else, everyone will be fired (just ask the greatest coach of all time). Then the owner and new coach will call everything a “rebuild”, and idiots will buy it, just like they’ll buy the jersey and popcorn. A new coach needs time, absolutely, to install whatever scheme he’s using, but the team either is good and has a QB, or it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t? Guess what? He’ll be gone too in a couple years. Rinse repeat. |
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Post by mthurl on Apr 8, 2024 3:41:05 GMT -5
I think what you’re missing here rkarp is what the definition of “rebuilding” in the NFL truly is. It’s total BS. What is different between one team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players, compared to another team signing free agents, making trades, drafting players? One team team calls it rebuilding and the other team calls it the off season. The fact that our “rebuild” failed doesn’t change the fact that we were in a “rebuild”. Same for a team that was successful and wasn’t in a “rebuild”. Both teams added new players at vital positions. Except the team that had a franchise QB won football games, the other didn’t. Reiff is rebuilding? Anderson is rebuilding? Drafting 4IOL in2 years is rebuilding? Not! Were the KC Chiefs “rebuilding” when they signed Joe Thuney to a 80 million dollar contract, and a year later followed it up by giving Jawaan Taylor an 80 million dollar contract? |
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Post by ucmiami on Apr 8, 2024 7:56:25 GMT -5
The comparison to the Texans is getting tired - Caserio had pulled off a great a highway robbery of a trade for the Browns' first-round draft picks in 2022, 2023, and 2024, as well as a 2022 fourth-round pick, a 2023 third-round pick and a 2024 fourth-round pick in exchange for a 2024 fifth round pick and a 'franchise QB' who refused to play for the team. On top of that, in 2022 their assigned pick was #3 and in 2023 it was #2, and they also had the Browns #15 pick in 2022 and #12 in 2023.
So their 'magical' turnaround was based on two terrible on-field season netting them two top 3 draft picks, and a trade that netted them 3 addition #1 draft picks that ended up as #15 and #12 (and #23 this year.) Teams have seldom if ever had that much draft capital in the space of 2 years (Miami came close and also has had a 'rapid' rise.)
On the flip side, Mayo has a inherited a better defense than most bad teams field - if he can maintain that defense (while getting his best defenders back from injury) he only needs to focus on a few glaring weaknesses on offense. They need a QB and they need a left tackle above journeyman level.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 8, 2024 8:15:06 GMT -5
The comparison to the Texans is getting tired - Caserio had pulled off a great a highway robbery of a trade for the Browns' first-round draft picks in 2022, 2023, and 2024, as well as a 2022 fourth-round pick, a 2023 third-round pick and a 2024 fourth-round pick in exchange for a 2024 fifth round pick and a 'franchise QB' who refused to play for the team. On top of that, in 2022 their assigned pick was #3 and in 2023 it was #2, and they also had the Browns #15 pick in 2022 and #12 in 2023. So their 'magical' turnaround was based on two terrible on-field season netting them two top 3 draft picks, and a trade that netted them 3 addition #1 draft picks that ended up as #15 and #12 (and #23 this year.) Teams have seldom if ever had that much draft capital in the space of 2 years (Miami came close and also has had a 'rapid' rise.) On the flip side, Mayo has a inherited a better defense than most bad teams field - if he can maintain that defense (while getting his best defenders back from injury) he only needs to focus on a few glaring weaknesses on offense. They need a QB and they need a left tackle above journeyman level. the Texans embraced a rebuild. have the Pats? would they get a draft haul (not saying as good as the Texans) trading #3 and also trading Judon? if both moves netted the team 3 #1 picks and 3 #2 picks on top of their own next year, in theory that would give them 8 draft picks over the next two draft cycles. would thatr drastically change the teams fortunes this season? |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 8, 2024 8:16:43 GMT -5
Reiff is rebuilding? Anderson is rebuilding? Drafting 4IOL in2 years is rebuilding? Not! Were the KC Chiefs “rebuilding” when they signed Joe Thuney to a 80 million dollar contract, and a year later followed it up by giving Jawaan Taylor an 80 million dollar contract? for me, no they were not. they were selectively filling holes on a SB contender. again, for me, I see the Pats in a completely different situation today. |
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 8, 2024 8:49:38 GMT -5
Every team tries to improve their roster every year. Every single year. Fan boys call that a rebuild - as if contractors are hired and walls are torn down, supports are installed and a brand new $80,000 dollar kitchen is installed - with new flooring, cabinets, appliances and twelve foot ceilings. Meanwhile the dinning room is falling apart and will need to be replaced next year. Every team has a salary cap (we hear this every year), every team has draft picks, the ability to make trades, cut players, sign players, bring in a new positional coach (or two or three). This is NFL football ^^, it’s not a general contractor that shows up at the house of some 40 year old that just inherited $200k from grandma and is installing an in-ground pool accompanied by 50 grand of hard scape and an outside fireplace. When you have no quarterback your team sucks, plain and simple. Doesn’t matter about much else, everyone will be fired (just ask the greatest coach of all time). Then the owner and new coach will call everything a “rebuild”, and idiots will buy it, just like they’ll buy the jersey and popcorn. A new coach needs time, absolutely, to install whatever scheme he’s using, but the team either is good and has a QB, or it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t? Guess what? He’ll be gone too in a couple years. Rinse repeat. There are teams that require a total teardown and start over. It doesn’t mean there isn’t some carryover players or players the coaching staff want to build around or have contracts they can work with. Then there are more turnkey situations where the team is in decent cap situation already, have all their picks and a decent roster. Dead cap debt alone is a precursor for a rebuild, dead cap and a depleted roster is usually what a new head coach walks into which is why you see fire sales of expensive vet players right after a new coach gets hired. 2020 Pats = They started with the 3rd most dead cap in the NFL, had vets with bloated cap hits due to kicking their cap down the road for 3-4 years prior, had 11-12 starters or major contributors that needed re-signing or replacing, had an aged out roster and a bunch of first/second year players. Rebuild. 2024 Pats = They started with the 3rd most available cap space in the NFL, the 3rd overall pick, 8 picks total, the 5th ranked defense last season and 4 out of 5 starting offensive linemen. Not a rebuild. You telling us you don’t see ^ a difference? |
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Post by ucmiami on Apr 8, 2024 11:14:59 GMT -5
The comparison to the Texans is getting tired - Caserio had pulled off a great a highway robbery of a trade for the Browns' first-round draft picks in 2022, 2023, and 2024, as well as a 2022 fourth-round pick, a 2023 third-round pick and a 2024 fourth-round pick in exchange for a 2024 fifth round pick and a 'franchise QB' who refused to play for the team. On top of that, in 2022 their assigned pick was #3 and in 2023 it was #2, and they also had the Browns #15 pick in 2022 and #12 in 2023. So their 'magical' turnaround was based on two terrible on-field season netting them two top 3 draft picks, and a trade that netted them 3 addition #1 draft picks that ended up as #15 and #12 (and #23 this year.) Teams have seldom if ever had that much draft capital in the space of 2 years (Miami came close and also has had a 'rapid' rise.) On the flip side, Mayo has a inherited a better defense than most bad teams field - if he can maintain that defense (while getting his best defenders back from injury) he only needs to focus on a few glaring weaknesses on offense. They need a QB and they need a left tackle above journeyman level. the Texans embraced a rebuild. have the Pats? would they get a draft haul (not saying as good as the Texans) trading #3 and also trading Judon? if both moves netted the team 3 #1 picks and 3 #2 picks on top of their own next year, in theory that would give them 8 draft picks over the next two draft cycles. would thatr drastically change the teams fortunes this season? I do not see Judon fetching much - last year of contract coming off injury and 32 years old. Maybe a 3rd rounder in 2025 and maybe from a contender with an injury issue a second rounder at trade deadline if he is playing well.
As for the #3, yeah I could see them getting say the #11 and #23 picks, plus a 1st next year - the Texans traded #12, #33, a next years first and third, for pick #3 and a fourth (#105) and that was for an edge, teams trading up for a QB tend to be more desperate and I don't think the Texans were in a bidding war.
That would be a tempting trade, and they could probably move up from #11 to say #7 for a lot less if they wanted to draft whoever the 4th QB would be. They would get a starting LT or the 3rd or 4th WR at #11, and maybe be in range to get Nix/Penix if they like either at #23, or take the best remaining LT/WR or BPA. And then still have their #34 and 68 picks to fill in with whatever they hadn't already taken in terms of needs.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 8, 2024 19:28:43 GMT -5
Every team tries to improve their roster every year. Every single year. Fan boys call that a rebuild - as if contractors are hired and walls are torn down, supports are installed and a brand new $80,000 dollar kitchen is installed - with new flooring, cabinets, appliances and twelve foot ceilings. Meanwhile the dinning room is falling apart and will need to be replaced next year. Every team has a salary cap (we hear this every year), every team has draft picks, the ability to make trades, cut players, sign players, bring in a new positional coach (or two or three). This is NFL football ^^, it’s not a general contractor that shows up at the house of some 40 year old that just inherited $200k from grandma and is installing an in-ground pool accompanied by 50 grand of hard scape and an outside fireplace. When you have no quarterback your team sucks, plain and simple. Doesn’t matter about much else, everyone will be fired (just ask the greatest coach of all time). Then the owner and new coach will call everything a “rebuild”, and idiots will buy it, just like they’ll buy the jersey and popcorn. A new coach needs time, absolutely, to install whatever scheme he’s using, but the team either is good and has a QB, or it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t? Guess what? He’ll be gone too in a couple years. Rinse repeat. There are teams that require a total teardown and start over. It doesn’t mean there isn’t some carryover players or players the coaching staff want to build around or have contracts they can work with. Then there are more turnkey situations where the team is in decent cap situation already, have all their picks and a decent roster. Dead cap debt alone is a precursor for a rebuild, dead cap and a depleted roster is usually what a new head coach walks into which is why you see fire sales of expensive vet players right after a new coach gets hired. 2020 Pats = They started with the 3rd most dead cap in the NFL, had vets with bloated cap hits due to kicking their cap down the road for 3-4 years prior, had 11-12 starters or major contributors that needed re-signing or replacing, had an aged out roster and a bunch of first/second year players. Rebuild. 2024 Pats = They started with the 3rd most available cap space in the NFL, the 3rd overall pick, 8 picks total, the 5th ranked defense last season and 4 out of 5 starting offensive linemen. Not a rebuild. You telling us you don’t see ^ a difference? So you don’t think this right now is a “rebuild”? I think the previous situation you mention is forgetting one giant thing, that was the year Brady left. But I get what you’re saying, it’s just that what you are describing is a little rare…I can think of the time when the Baltimore a ravens went rock bottom after their Super Bowl spending splurge, but for the most part I think a lot of what we see is typical. People like to throw the Texans out there as a successful “rebuild”, but they were a 3 win team before Stroud was drafted. He made the difference, and he made a difference to a 3 win team. No one is mentioning that little tad bit in their masterful “rebuild”. |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 8, 2024 19:49:29 GMT -5
The comparison to the Texans is getting tired - Caserio had pulled off a great a highway robbery of a trade for the Browns' first-round draft picks in 2022, 2023, and 2024, as well as a 2022 fourth-round pick, a 2023 third-round pick and a 2024 fourth-round pick in exchange for a 2024 fifth round pick and a 'franchise QB' who refused to play for the team. On top of that, in 2022 their assigned pick was #3 and in 2023 it was #2, and they also had the Browns #15 pick in 2022 and #12 in 2023. So their 'magical' turnaround was based on two terrible on-field season netting them two top 3 draft picks, and a trade that netted them 3 addition #1 draft picks that ended up as #15 and #12 (and #23 this year.) Teams have seldom if ever had that much draft capital in the space of 2 years (Miami came close and also has had a 'rapid' rise.) On the flip side, Mayo has a inherited a better defense than most bad teams field - if he can maintain that defense (while getting his best defenders back from injury) he only needs to focus on a few glaring weaknesses on offense. They need a QB and they need a left tackle above journeyman level. the Texans embraced a rebuild. have the Pats? would they get a draft haul (not saying as good as the Texans) trading #3 and also trading Judon? if both moves netted the team 3 #1 picks and 3 #2 picks on top of their own next year, in theory that would give them 8 draft picks over the next two draft cycles. would thatr drastically change the teams fortunes this season? I don't see any players on the Patriots current roster that is going to yield them anything significant by trading them. I know we have big needs on offense, but even so, I wouldn't reach for any position in this draft. Meaning, I'd rather punt into next year if the pieces don't fall the way I want. If they take a disciplined approach to this draft and look at it in the context of 2 or maybe 3 years, then they have flexibility to play the board their way without reaching. Brissett in this context could be a 1 or maybe 2 year bridge. |
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Post by digger0862 on Apr 8, 2024 19:51:18 GMT -5
There are teams that require a total teardown and start over. It doesn’t mean there isn’t some carryover players or players the coaching staff want to build around or have contracts they can work with. Then there are more turnkey situations where the team is in decent cap situation already, have all their picks and a decent roster. Dead cap debt alone is a precursor for a rebuild, dead cap and a depleted roster is usually what a new head coach walks into which is why you see fire sales of expensive vet players right after a new coach gets hired. 2020 Pats = They started with the 3rd most dead cap in the NFL, had vets with bloated cap hits due to kicking their cap down the road for 3-4 years prior, had 11-12 starters or major contributors that needed re-signing or replacing, had an aged out roster and a bunch of first/second year players. Rebuild. 2024 Pats = They started with the 3rd most available cap space in the NFL, the 3rd overall pick, 8 picks total, the 5th ranked defense last season and 4 out of 5 starting offensive linemen. Not a rebuild. You telling us you don’t see ^ a difference? So you don’t think this right now is a “rebuild”? I think the previous situation you mention is forgetting one giant thing, that was the year Brady left. But I get what you’re saying, it’s just that what you are describing is a little rare…I can think of the time when the Baltimore a ravens went rock bottom after their Super Bowl spending splurge, but for the most part I think a lot of what we see is typical. People like to throw the Texans out there as a successful “rebuild”, but they were a 3 win team before Stroud was drafted. He made the difference, and he made a difference to a 3 win team. No one is mentioning that little tad bit in their masterful “rebuild”. Just by getting rid of Mac the Patriots gained 5 wins. |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 9, 2024 6:04:25 GMT -5
So you don’t think this right now is a “rebuild”? I think the previous situation you mention is forgetting one giant thing, that was the year Brady left. But I get what you’re saying, it’s just that what you are describing is a little rare…I can think of the time when the Baltimore a ravens went rock bottom after their Super Bowl spending splurge, but for the most part I think a lot of what we see is typical. People like to throw the Texans out there as a successful “rebuild”, but they were a 3 win team before Stroud was drafted. He made the difference, and he made a difference to a 3 win team. No one is mentioning that little tad bit in their masterful “rebuild”. Just by getting rid of Mac the Patriots gained 5 wins. Zippy started 6 games. the team lost 4 of those games. Zippy threw 6 TD's in those 6 games, with 3 TD's in 1 game. so in 5 games Zippy had 3 TD's. Zippy also had 9 int's. he completed under 60% of his throws. last year, with out Mac, the team would not have won 5 additional games. would they/will they with Brissett? 5 additional games? you see this roster now being a 9 win roster? |
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Post by digger0862 on Apr 9, 2024 6:13:46 GMT -5
Just by getting rid of Mac the Patriots gained 5 wins. Zippy started 6 games. the team lost 4 of those games. Zippy threw 6 TD's in those 6 games, with 3 TD's in 1 game. so in 5 games Zippy had 3 TD's. Zippy also had 9 int's. he completed under 60% of his throws. last year, with out Mac, the team would not have won 5 additional games. would they/will they with Brissett? 5 additional games? you see this roster now being a 9 win roster? They are a .500 team with an average QB. Have you seen the rest of the NFL? There are a couple of good teams and the rest are flawed. |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 9, 2024 6:45:28 GMT -5
Zippy started 6 games. the team lost 4 of those games. Zippy threw 6 TD's in those 6 games, with 3 TD's in 1 game. so in 5 games Zippy had 3 TD's. Zippy also had 9 int's. he completed under 60% of his throws. last year, with out Mac, the team would not have won 5 additional games. would they/will they with Brissett? 5 additional games? you see this roster now being a 9 win roster? They are a .500 team with an average QB. Have you seen the rest of the NFL? There are a couple of good teams and the rest are flawed. is this a 9 win team with Brissett? |
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Post by digger0862 on Apr 9, 2024 7:39:11 GMT -5
They are a .500 team with an average QB. Have you seen the rest of the NFL? There are a couple of good teams and the rest are flawed. is this a 9 win team with Brissett? We shall see. They need a left tackle desperately. Health permitting I believe they can win 8 or 9 games yes. |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 9, 2024 7:47:07 GMT -5
is this a 9 win team with Brissett? We shall see. They need a left tackle desperately. Health permitting I believe they can win 8 or 9 games yes. I honestly believed Bill was responsible for 4 of the wins last year. he and his staff simply out coached/out game planned the opponent, while the teams 2 QB's performed poorly. they no longer have Bill. remains to be seen what this staff can do. only thing we do know, is that this staff has never done it before. just my opinion, today, the team is worse than they were last year. which I am fine with given that this is a rebuild. has the team fully embraced the rebuild? the sheer number of draft picks the team has the next 2 seasons is troublesome. keeping higher paid vets with limited time left at high salaries is also troublesome (Judon, Andrews). I also have no problem carrying over $30-$40m in cap space to next season. |
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