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Post by fisher on Apr 8, 2024 18:32:25 GMT -5
Maye's pro day was erratic because he missed couple of passes out of the 50 something he threw??? Come on... BTW, Bo Nix combine workout was pretty meh. Maye is erratic in meaninful game situations. I am not talking about the combine. Over 40% of Nix’s throws were at or behind the line of scrimmage,,,, in games ….pro days. And combine are not relevant |
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 8, 2024 20:30:31 GMT -5
Maye is erratic in meaninful game situations. I am not talking about the combine. Over 40% of Nix’s throws were at or behind the line of scrimmage,,,, in games ….pro days. And combine are not relevant It's actually just under 30%. Higher than anyone of the top 6 QBs. I know the herd opinion is that's a bad thing. I do not think it is necessarily so. Nix's avg yds per attempt is 9.8 (adjusted y/a of 11.2). Maye's corresponding numbers are 8.5 and 8.7. Nix's avg time to throw is 2.4 secs. Maye's is 2.8 secs. It suggests to me that Nix is a QB who has decided to be effective rather than play hero ball. He releases the ball quickly. It is not highlight-worthy; but his receivers catch the ball with space around them so they can make plays. He executes the play design. Nix's sack/pressure = 8%; Maye's is 20%. Nix's QBR under pressure is 131; Maye's is 69. But going back to 30% of Nix's passes going behind the LOS. He threw 470 in 2023-24. That means he threw at least 329 (70%) forward passes. That's 3 fewer than the total passes JJM threw. I pointed that out not to knock on JJM. It's to put in perspective that Nix still threw a lot of forward passes despite throwing 30% behind the LOS. But yeah, Maye is tall and strong and has a strong arm. |
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Post by DaPatriots on Apr 8, 2024 21:19:49 GMT -5
Over 40% of Nix’s throws were at or behind the line of scrimmage,,,, in games ….pro days. And combine are not relevant It's actually just under 30%. Higher than anyone of the top 6 QBs. I know the herd opinion is that's a bad thing. I do not think it is necessarily so. Nix's avg yds per attempt is 9.8 (adjusted y/a of 11.2). Maye's corresponding numbers are 8.5 and 8.7. Nix's avg time to throw is 2.4 secs. Maye's is 2.8 secs. It suggests to me that Nix is a QB who has decided to be effective rather than play hero ball. He releases the ball quickly. It is not highlight-worthy; but his receivers catch the ball with space around them so they can make plays. He executes the play design. Nix's sack/pressure = 8%; Maye's is 20%. Nix's QBR under pressure is 131; Maye's is 69. But going back to 30% of Nix's passes going behind the LOS. He threw 470 in 2023-24. That means he threw at least 329 (70%) forward passes. That's 3 fewer than the total passes JJM threw. I pointed that out not to knock on JJM. It's to put in perspective that Nix still threw a lot of forward passes despite throwing 30% behind the LOS. But yeah, Maye is tall and strong and has a strong arm. People are dumb. Not MB, but some just like JJM because he piloted a championship squad. EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW HE WASN'T THE ENGINE! Some just like Maye because of his measurables. I didn't know we were judging super models! I thought we were judging production! |
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Post by mthurl on Apr 9, 2024 3:48:26 GMT -5
I think a lot of GM’s are leery of taking a quarterback in the top five because they are forever tied to THAT GUY, and that guy can absolutely get them fired. You might say that involves anyone selected in the top five but I’d argue that QB is more pronounced. QB’s make or break you, just ask Bill Belichick, he had the best for 20 years and become an icon and living legend, then he had the worst for three years and got fired with his reputation tarnished.
But I’m 100% taking Drake Maye at number three if he’s there, let them fire me.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 9, 2024 3:59:02 GMT -5
He's not the 1st or the last to describe his play as erratic. Hell! HIS PRO DAY WAS ERRATIC!!! Bo Nix is way better. Maye's pro day was erratic because he missed couple of passes out of the 50 something he threw??? Come on... BTW, Bo Nix combine workout was pretty meh. Maye didn’t miss a couple passes out of 50 something…he missed a couple passes out of 74. And that’s all anyone around here seems to talk about, it’s laughable. Meanwhile the kid fires off 70 lasers at all levels of the field, while standing, running, on one foot, off his back foot, standing on his head…and had them land perfectly, with velocity, trajectory and accuracy. And the guy is a bum🤣🤣. The hilarious thing is Jayden Daniels air mailed the same exact throw to the opposite side of the field in his pro day, while throwing to the best receiver in the draft and no one mentions it. Meanwhile we have JJ McCarthy who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn unless it was a slant over the middle and now he’s projected to be a top 5 pick. And I like the kid, but I’m still waiting for his passes outside the numbers to land in the field of play. So are his receivers…as that ball sails over their heads to the kid selling popcorn. And don’t even look at his corner fades, he doesn’t throw them, I’m not sure even once in his entire career at Michigan (probably because he can’t right now). I think he’ll eventually develop into a decent QB but I also think it’ll take him years to work on throwing to different levels of the field with trajectory. Honestly Tom Brady was very similar at first, but not everyone is Tom Brady. Drake Maye can hit every throw with ease, velocity, touch, trajectory, varying his speeds and release. Doesn’t mean he’ll be a pro bowler or even good, but it does mean he at least is immensely talented - and normally in most drafts at that position it gets you drafted in the top 3. |
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Post by rkarp on Apr 9, 2024 5:55:53 GMT -5
Maye's pro day was erratic because he missed couple of passes out of the 50 something he threw??? Come on... BTW, Bo Nix combine workout was pretty meh. Maye didn’t miss a couple passes out of 50 something…he missed a couple passes out of 74. And that’s all anyone around here seems to talk about, it’s laughable. Meanwhile the kid fires off 70 lasers at all levels of the field, while standing, running, on one foot, off his back foot, standing on his head…and had them land perfectly, with velocity, trajectory and accuracy. And the guy is a bum🤣🤣. The hilarious thing is Jayden Daniels air mailed the same exact throw to the opposite side of the field in his pro day, while throwing to the best receiver in the draft and no one mentions it. Meanwhile we have JJ McCarthy who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn unless it was a slant over the middle and now he’s projected to be a top 5 pick. And I like the kid, but I’m still waiting for his passes outside the numbers to land in the field of play. So are his receivers…as that ball sails over their heads to the kid selling popcorn. And don’t even look at his corner fades, he doesn’t throw them, I’m not sure even once in his entire career at Michigan (probably because he can’t right now). I think he’ll eventually develop into a decent QB but I also think it’ll take him years to work on throwing to different levels of the field with trajectory. Honestly Tom Brady was very similar at first, but not everyone is Tom Brady. Drake Maye can hit every throw with ease, velocity, touch, trajectory, varying his speeds and release. Doesn’t mean he’ll be a pro bowler or even good, but it does mean he at least is immensely talented - and normally in most drafts at that position it gets you drafted in the top 3. I didn't watch the pro day highlights I did watch all 3 game tapes, not only highlights Maye-under pressure mechanics often break down. he absolutely has the arm ability to make any off playform throw, but his accuracy tends to drop in these situations, usually throwing high at targets. would be much better served throwing the ball away for another down in these situations Daniels-under pressure, absolutely takes off running rather than look at options 2 or 3. oft got away with it in college, but more than likely not in the pro's. can he break those habits and be taught progressions? JJMc-clearly did not have the volume to watch that the other 2 did. rarely had to go thru progressions. mostly 1 read and move off. plenty of arm talent, not always accurate. was not asked to make a lot of throws. Michigan often ran the ball with 3rd and long play calls. |
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Post by fisher on Apr 9, 2024 6:32:01 GMT -5
The QB’s being discussed all have their warts and I thin’ it comes down to how the6 are handled by the coaches…… correct what needs to be corrected. They have time to d9 that then the pre season games will dictate how the coaching is going. If he’s not ready , figure out why. Don’t do to any of these draftees that was# done to those drafted in 2021.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 9, 2024 6:55:13 GMT -5
The QB’s being discussed all have their warts and I thin’ it comes down to how the6 are handled by the coaches…… correct what needs to be corrected. They have time to d9 that then the pre season games will dictate how the coaching is going. If he’s not ready , figure out why. Don’t do to any of these draftees that was# done to those drafted in 2021. we saw coaches like Shanny take JimmyG and win what, 8 games in a row before injury. We saw Shanny go to a SB with JimmyG. We also saw him go to a SB with Purdy. We saw McVey go to a SB with a very young Goff. We saw Slowey play Stroud his rookie year into close the the league MVP. we saw Josh play Mac into the rookie of the year/rookie pro bowler. we also saw Bryce Young and Trevor Lawrence falter badly. We saw Josh Allen have one of our posters say "move him to the FB position". we do not know what AVP/McAdoo can do with a rookie QB. they never have. a young QB has to play to improve. how many would be questioning a decsion to take a QB at #3 and sit him the year? while the team wins 5 games? how many would question the decision to take a QB at #3 and play him all year to a 7 TD-13 int season winning 4 games? |
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Post by section136 on Apr 9, 2024 9:36:33 GMT -5
The QB’s being discussed all have their warts and I thin’ it comes down to how the6 are handled by the coaches…… correct what needs to be corrected. They have time to d9 that then the pre season games will dictate how the coaching is going. If he’s not ready , figure out why. Don’t do to any of these draftees that was# done to those drafted in 2021. we saw coaches like Shanny take JimmyG and win what, 8 games in a row before injury. We saw Shanny go to a SB with JimmyG. We also saw him go to a SB with Purdy. We saw McVey go to a SB with a very young Goff. We saw Slowey play Stroud his rookie year into close the the league MVP. we saw Josh play Mac into the rookie of the year/rookie pro bowler. we also saw Bryce Young and Trevor Lawrence falter badly. We saw Josh Allen have one of our posters say "move him to the FB position". we do not know what AVP/McAdoo can do with a rookie QB. they never have. a young QB has to play to improve. how many would be questioning a decsion to take a QB at #3 and sit him the year? while the team wins 5 games? how many would question the decision to take a QB at #3 and play him all year to a 7 TD-13 int season winning 4 games? I don't think there's any hard and fast rule for when you put a rookie QB into real game situations. Coming out of last year I was firmly in the sit him for a season camp - now I'm not as steadfast in that opinion. I understand that playing in real games is a valuable part of developing a player but there are several factors that must be in line in order for the move to be constructive. In short, how much can the experience be managed within the developmental process. Too many variables are in play during a rebuild season to set a hard and fast rule on this - the examples you listed above make that pretty clear. But overall, I'm a bit more comfortable that the staff and team will be better suited to make development of a young QB possible this season than the last two. We shall see.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 9, 2024 10:37:00 GMT -5
we saw coaches like Shanny take JimmyG and win what, 8 games in a row before injury. We saw Shanny go to a SB with JimmyG. We also saw him go to a SB with Purdy. We saw McVey go to a SB with a very young Goff. We saw Slowey play Stroud his rookie year into close the the league MVP. we saw Josh play Mac into the rookie of the year/rookie pro bowler. we also saw Bryce Young and Trevor Lawrence falter badly. We saw Josh Allen have one of our posters say "move him to the FB position". we do not know what AVP/McAdoo can do with a rookie QB. they never have. a young QB has to play to improve. how many would be questioning a decsion to take a QB at #3 and sit him the year? while the team wins 5 games? how many would question the decision to take a QB at #3 and play him all year to a 7 TD-13 int season winning 4 games? I don't think there's any hard and fast rule for when you put a rookie QB into real game situations. Coming out of last year I was firmly in the sit him for a season camp - now I'm not as steadfast in that opinion. I understand that playing in real games is a valuable part of developing a player but there are several factors that must be in line in order for the move to be constructive. In short, how much can the experience be managed within the developmental process. Too many variables are in play during a rebuild season to set a hard and fast rule on this - the examples you listed above make that pretty clear. But overall, I'm a bit more comfortable that the staff and team will be better suited to make development of a young QB possible this season than the last two. We shall see.
while I agree there are no fast and hard rules. but we fans need to temper expectations that Lawrence, Young and Josh Allen rookie seasons are more a norm than Stroud or Mac. Stroud and Mac, rookie QB's getting their teams to the playoffs in their rookie years is extrordinary. |
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Post by section136 on Apr 9, 2024 11:14:42 GMT -5
I don't think there's any hard and fast rule for when you put a rookie QB into real game situations. Coming out of last year I was firmly in the sit him for a season camp - now I'm not as steadfast in that opinion. I understand that playing in real games is a valuable part of developing a player but there are several factors that must be in line in order for the move to be constructive. In short, how much can the experience be managed within the developmental process. Too many variables are in play during a rebuild season to set a hard and fast rule on this - the examples you listed above make that pretty clear. But overall, I'm a bit more comfortable that the staff and team will be better suited to make development of a young QB possible this season than the last two. We shall see.
while I agree there are no fast and hard rules. but we fans need to temper expectations that Lawrence, Young and Josh Allen rookie seasons are more a norm than Stroud or Mac. Stroud and Mac, rookie QB's getting their teams to the playoffs in their rookie years is extrordinary. Absolutely agree - I was more answering your questions than challenging your point - there is no doubt that many fans expectations of the QB position needs to be tempered. |
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 9, 2024 16:45:55 GMT -5
I think a lot of GM’s are leery of taking a quarterback in the top five because they are forever tied to THAT GUY, and that guy can absolutely get them fired. You might say that involves anyone selected in the top five but I’d argue that QB is more pronounced. QB’s make or break you, just ask Bill Belichick, he had the best for 20 years and become an icon and living legend, then he had the worst for three years and got fired with his reputation tarnished. But I’m 100% taking Drake Maye at number three if he’s there, let them fire me. Actually, excluding Williams, picking Maye is the least likely to get you fired. He looks the most like most people's mental model of what a good QB looks like. Within organizations he probably is the "safe" pick that people within a "collaborative organization can most easily reach compromise/consensus on. Consensus decisions that do not work out rarely get you fired. It's the "stick your neck out" decisions that do not work out that get you fired. |
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Post by mthurl on Apr 9, 2024 17:42:17 GMT -5
Maye didn’t miss a couple passes out of 50 something…he missed a couple passes out of 74. And that’s all anyone around here seems to talk about, it’s laughable. Meanwhile the kid fires off 70 lasers at all levels of the field, while standing, running, on one foot, off his back foot, standing on his head…and had them land perfectly, with velocity, trajectory and accuracy. And the guy is a bum🤣🤣. The hilarious thing is Jayden Daniels air mailed the same exact throw to the opposite side of the field in his pro day, while throwing to the best receiver in the draft and no one mentions it. Meanwhile we have JJ McCarthy who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn unless it was a slant over the middle and now he’s projected to be a top 5 pick. And I like the kid, but I’m still waiting for his passes outside the numbers to land in the field of play. So are his receivers…as that ball sails over their heads to the kid selling popcorn. And don’t even look at his corner fades, he doesn’t throw them, I’m not sure even once in his entire career at Michigan (probably because he can’t right now). I think he’ll eventually develop into a decent QB but I also think it’ll take him years to work on throwing to different levels of the field with trajectory. Honestly Tom Brady was very similar at first, but not everyone is Tom Brady. Drake Maye can hit every throw with ease, velocity, touch, trajectory, varying his speeds and release. Doesn’t mean he’ll be a pro bowler or even good, but it does mean he at least is immensely talented - and normally in most drafts at that position it gets you drafted in the top 3. I didn't watch the pro day highlights I did watch all 3 game tapes, not only highlights Maye-under pressure mechanics often break down. he absolutely has the arm ability to make any off playform throw, but his accuracy tends to drop in these situations, usually throwing high at targets. would be much better served throwing the ball away for another down in these situations Daniels-under pressure, absolutely takes off running rather than look at options 2 or 3. oft got away with it in college, but more than likely not in the pro's. can he break those habits and be taught progressions? JJMc-clearly did not have the volume to watch that the other 2 did. rarely had to go thru progressions. mostly 1 read and move off. plenty of arm talent, not always accurate. was not asked to make a lot of throws. Michigan often ran the ball with 3rd and long play calls. Yeah, I think you about nailed it on all three of them. |
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