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Post by rkarp on Apr 12, 2024 9:27:22 GMT -5
just an opinion as I have now watched all 6 guys to some degree
JJM does not have an elite trait/skill. he has planet of arm. he is more mobile than I thought. he is accurate. but he does none of them at an elite level. he also had Harbaugh. with out Harbaugh, would he have been as good?
Maye does have an elite arm. moves well enough. not very accurate. Maye's area's needing work are the very coachable area's. he had the least help around him in terms of coaching, weapons, OL. great potential upside, but needs a lot of work.
Daniels very accurate. good not great arm strength. shifty/fast runner. 1 read from all I saw on him. great OL. great targets in school. how long will it take for him to understand and figure out nfl defenses?
Penix elite arm and accurate. great OL and great targets. Moves well in the pocket, but not a runner at all. 1 read only. how long and will he figure out nfl defenses?
Nix good arm, accurate. mobile but not a runner. was in a 1 read offense. great short to medium thrower. questionable deep ball skills.
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Post by PatsFanInExile on Apr 12, 2024 11:08:54 GMT -5
I fall into the camp that says you just never know with QBs coming out of college.
A guy like Lawrence looked like someone out of central casting: big guy, big arm, dual threat, competed for multiple national championships against a horde of future NFL draftees. A next generation Peyton Manning who could tuck it and run. For whatever reason it hasn’t clicked yet.
And then there’s a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick - no one’s idea of being physically talented - and he sticks around for 17 years, and starts for 8 teams.
I follow some pundits who say there are more than a dozen guys coming out each year who have the requisite physical tools, but the mental side is a complete unknown. Understanding the playbook, recognizing defensive schemes, making pre-snap adjustments, and processing everything faster than the college level … you just don’t know if they can do that.
If you could make a composite QB out of Lawrence’s tools and Fitzy’s brain you’d have something, but it doesn’t work that way.
Gun to my head I’d take the guy who I think has the mental edge. Who is that? I have no idea.
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Post by backbay on Apr 12, 2024 16:10:01 GMT -5
I fall into the camp that says you just never know with QBs coming out of college. A guy like Lawrence looked like someone out of central casting: big guy, big arm, dual threat, competed for multiple national championships against a horde of future NFL draftees. A next generation Peyton Manning who could tuck it and run. For whatever reason it hasn’t clicked yet. And then there’s a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick - no one’s idea of being physically talented - and he sticks around for 17 years, and starts for 8 teams. I follow some pundits who say there are more than a dozen guys coming out each year who have the requisite physical tools, but the mental side is a complete unknown. Understanding the playbook, recognizing defensive schemes, making pre-snap adjustments, and processing everything faster than the college level … you just don’t know if they can do that. If you could make a composite QB out of Lawrence’s tools and Fitzy’s brain you’d have something, but it doesn’t work that way. Gun to my head I’d take the guy who I think has the mental edge. Who is that? I have no idea. I saw a lot of Lawrence when he was with Clemson. Although he won 1 national title championship; his teams were loaded at that time. I was never impressed. He had all the physical tools for a pocket passer; but the thing I thought he was missing was intense competitiveness.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 12, 2024 16:56:37 GMT -5
He was pressured 17 times - one fewer than the number of passes JJM threw on that game. Are you saying the other QB prospects would have done better in that situation? See, your logic sounds good on the surface, but actually flawed. The only reason the other QBs never looked as bad against MI's D is that they did not have to play against MI's D. You are giving the other QBs as much credit for not being tested by the same defense, as you would, had they played against MI's D and succeeded. Here is a fact for you: The other QBs have done the same or even worse against much lesser defenses; defenitely against fewer pressures. I think there were stats comparing performance under pressure, and McCarthy beat Maye hands down. Also, Mcarthy completed a higher percentage of passes on 3rd down situations vs Maye. You are correct on the data. JJM had a higher QBR under pressure tha Maye. JJM had a higher completion rate under pressure than Maye. Actually those two metrics are highly correlated so basically the same thing. I just do not necessarily think that is a sure indication that JJM is better than Maye, under pressure I have mentioned it before. MI's opponents spent most of their defensive gameplanning time focused on how to stop MI's run. UNC's opponents knew that UNC was going to live and die on how successful Maye was, so they focused defensive gameplanning on Maye. It's like back in the day when BB would always focus on taking away the opposing O's strength and challenging the other team to win with the weaker part of their game. In the case of MI, it did not matter because nobody could stop the run game no matter what. Also, how many times did JJM attempt to pass because they were falling behind and they had to pass more?
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Post by backbay on Apr 13, 2024 3:18:39 GMT -5
I think there were stats comparing performance under pressure, and McCarthy beat Maye hands down. Also, Mcarthy completed a higher percentage of passes on 3rd down situations vs Maye. You are correct on the data. JJM had a higher QBR under pressure tha Maye. JJM had a higher completion rate under pressure than Maye. Actually those two metrics are highly correlated so basically the same thing. I just do not necessarily think that is a sure indication that JJM is better than Maye, under pressure I have mentioned it before. MI's opponents spent most of their defensive gameplanning time focused on how to stop MI's run. UNC's opponents knew that UNC was going to live and die on how successful Maye was, so they focused defensive gameplanning on Maye. It's like back in the day when BB would always focus on taking away the opposing O's strength and challenging the other team to win with the weaker part of their game. In the case of MI, it did not matter because nobody could stop the run game no matter what. Also, how many times did JJM attempt to pass because they were falling behind and they had to pass more? Very good points. So, out of Daniels, McCarthy, or Maye - who would you choose?
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Post by backbay on Apr 13, 2024 5:28:37 GMT -5
just an opinion as I have now watched all 6 guys to some degree JJM does not have an elite trait/skill. he has planet of arm. he is more mobile than I thought. he is accurate. but he does none of them at an elite level. he also had Harbaugh. with out Harbaugh, would he have been as good? Maye does have an elite arm. moves well enough. not very accurate. Maye's area's needing work are the very coachable area's. he had the least help around him in terms of coaching, weapons, OL. great potential upside, but needs a lot of work. Daniels very accurate. good not great arm strength. shifty/fast runner. 1 read from all I saw on him. great OL. great targets in school. how long will it take for him to understand and figure out nfl defenses? Penix elite arm and accurate. great OL and great targets. Moves well in the pocket, but not a runner at all. 1 read only. how long and will he figure out nfl defenses? Nix good arm, accurate. mobile but not a runner. was in a 1 read offense. great short to medium thrower. questionable deep ball skills. so, who is the QB that is best for patriots situation?
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Post by backbay on Apr 13, 2024 5:31:47 GMT -5
I fall into the camp that says you just never know with QBs coming out of college. A guy like Lawrence looked like someone out of central casting: big guy, big arm, dual threat, competed for multiple national championships against a horde of future NFL draftees. A next generation Peyton Manning who could tuck it and run. For whatever reason it hasn’t clicked yet. And then there’s a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick - no one’s idea of being physically talented - and he sticks around for 17 years, and starts for 8 teams. I follow some pundits who say there are more than a dozen guys coming out each year who have the requisite physical tools, but the mental side is a complete unknown. Understanding the playbook, recognizing defensive schemes, making pre-snap adjustments, and processing everything faster than the college level … you just don’t know if they can do that. If you could make a composite QB out of Lawrence’s tools and Fitzy’s brain you’d have something, but it doesn’t work that way. Gun to my head I’d take the guy who I think has the mental edge. Who is that? I have no idea.but that's the "fun" part.....lol pick one <putting a single cartridge in 5 cylinder revolver, spinning cylinder, and you playing Russian Roulette>
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 13, 2024 13:14:51 GMT -5
You are correct on the data. JJM had a higher QBR under pressure tha Maye. JJM had a higher completion rate under pressure than Maye. Actually those two metrics are highly correlated so basically the same thing. I just do not necessarily think that is a sure indication that JJM is better than Maye, under pressure I have mentioned it before. MI's opponents spent most of their defensive gameplanning time focused on how to stop MI's run. UNC's opponents knew that UNC was going to live and die on how successful Maye was, so they focused defensive gameplanning on Maye. It's like back in the day when BB would always focus on taking away the opposing O's strength and challenging the other team to win with the weaker part of their game. In the case of MI, it did not matter because nobody could stop the run game no matter what. Also, how many times did JJM attempt to pass because they were falling behind and they had to pass more? Very good points. So, out of Daniels, McCarthy, or Maye - who would you choose? My QB ranking is as follows. Williams Daniels Penix Maye Nix McCarthy
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Post by backbay on Apr 13, 2024 15:05:02 GMT -5
Very good points. So, out of Daniels, McCarthy, or Maye - who would you choose? My QB ranking is as follows. Williams Daniels Penix Maye Nix McCarthy So, if Penix, Maye, McCarthy, and Nix are available at #3, you'd pic Penix (unless Daniels happens to passed by Washington or whatever team that picks at #2).
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 13, 2024 23:20:23 GMT -5
My QB ranking is as follows. Williams Daniels Penix Maye Nix McCarthy So, if Penix, Maye, McCarthy, and Nix are available at #3, you'd pic Penix (unless Daniels happens to passed by Washington or whatever team that picks at #2). Yes. With no hesitation.
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