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Post by rkarp on Oct 16, 2017 7:21:41 GMT -5
watched the TV feed and again a 2nd time.
-any win in division is a good win. the Jets will be a 6-8 win team. on any given Sunday.
-I thought the call in the end zone was the correct call after seeing the replay. If the Jets TE fumbled the ball at the 1 yard line and the ball rolled out of the back of the end zone, the Pats take possession. Yesterdays call was the same thing, except the pile on was involved
-many have been calling for it, but nice to see Lewis play well. Would like to see him in the pass game more often as well.
-from my view, I also thought Branch played well. I counted a tackle for loss and nice push. Jets unable to run also attributed to both Branch and Brown.
-ok lets go over this again with the defense. they are playing a fairly vanilla bend but don't break. forget about yards. hold the opposing team to under 17 (the Pats defense did) and turn the ball over (the Pats defense did). the D-line needs to understand LESS IS MORE! Don't pressure the QB. Stay in your lane and make him stand in pocket and throw the ball. Throwing the ball in an 8 man back field will create turn overs.
-Butler made 2 mistakes both under cutting routes. 1 lead to a Jets TD. if you are trying to create turn overs, it is going to happen sometimes. I thought Jones was competitive in the slot. I thought Bademosi had some understandable struggles. Also lets mention that DMC did not play FS all game. Harmon was also in that spot with DMC moving to SS at times. noticeable drop off from DMC to Harmon.
-that being said, most any OC is going to find Roberts in pass coverage and target him. Roberts with a bad read play on the Jets TD. took 2 steps forward and then back into coverage. he was beaten on the very first step. credit the Jets for passing and not running against the Pats goal line D
-big, big defensive play of the day was Butler on a corner blitz ending the game. good call from MattyP
-imo, memories are short. the Pats D struggled last season first 7-8 games against inferior opposition and QB play. they lost to the Phins. Got lucky against the Cards and the Phins a 2nd time before blowing out the Texans. then played poorly against the Bills and lost, before getting the Browns (rookie QB) a 2-4 Bengals team and the Steelers with out BenR. however the D did put it together and did play well the final few games/playoffs(struggled again in the SB)
-I find the penalties more concerning than the actual play. Cardona a 2nd time. Wow. these pick plays are so obvious. they need to fix that.
-Best game of the year for Gronk, Lewis, Cooks and Solder. TB imo was not his usual self.
-kudos and criticism to the staff. I thought the team came out very flat and the Jets were quite chatty. Nice adjustments (esp on D) however sealed this game. a missed FG and fumble made this game closer than the final score. Pats also had 1st and goal at I believe the Jets 6. They come out empty back field. Why?? at least show play action to somewhat freeze the D in the red zone
-I get how the Jets feel screwed. I also get that Pats fans may feel lucky. but for crying out loud, is it too much to ask Fouts to at least understand the rule?
-I am certainly not HC material. and I enjoy the back and forth on BB, AND I ADMIT BB IS MOSTLY ALWAYS RIGHT!! But I would pull me hair out if Bowles was the Pats coach. Wow, do I disagree with his clock management and play calls
-call me crazy. I thought the Pats finally dictated play by stopping the Jets run game and forcing the pass, and having Lewis run for positive yards. again, call me crazy. I think the team missed Blount. I would have been fine with the team signing Gillislee and Blount and not Burkhead. I have not seen that 3rd or 4th quarter eat the clock, stay in bounds, pound the ball from Gillislee yet. I like him running the ball, but prefer Blount in that eat the clock situation
-ok. bend but dont break. Dl-men need to stay in their lanes. dont break containment. but for crying out loud, if you do and have the QB in the grasp, BRING HIM DOWN! I have not seen so many missed tackles on the QB in for ever.
-just saying. I thought Ealy got away with a cheap shot on TB. kind of his way of giving BB the ole FU!
-I have not seen snap counts yet, but I do not recall seeing Harris on the field. that must have been tough on him against the Jets.
-I saw Waddle line up a couple of times at TE. not a good sign for Allen
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Post by agcsbill on Oct 16, 2017 7:27:42 GMT -5
-imo, memories are short. the Pats D struggled last season first 7-8 games against inferior opposition and QB play. they lost to the Phins. Got lucky against the Cards and the Phins a 2nd time before blowing out the Texans. then played poorly against the Bills and lost, before getting the Browns (rookie QB) a 2-4 Bengals team and the Steelers with out BenR. however the D did put it together and did play well the final few games/playoffs(struggled again in the SB)
This says it all. Folks have short memories and do not recall the grumbling that was going on here early last season about the defense and overall play. Of course, everything ended with everyone smiling after SB51. The season still has 10 games to go and it is not December yet!
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Post by rkarp on Oct 16, 2017 7:31:25 GMT -5
-imo, memories are short. the Pats D struggled last season first 7-8 games against inferior opposition and QB play. they lost to the Phins. Got lucky against the Cards and the Phins a 2nd time before blowing out the Texans. then played poorly against the Bills and lost, before getting the Browns (rookie QB) a 2-4 Bengals team and the Steelers with out BenR. however the D did put it together and did play well the final few games/playoffs(struggled again in the SB)
This says it all. Folks have short memories and do not recall the grumbling that was going on here early last season about the defense and overall play. Of course, everything ended with everyone smiling after SB51. The season still has 10 games to go and it is not December yet! I remember, because I grumbled last year. poor tackling and communication all over the D. free lancing. missed assignments. took a good 8 games to fix and then they got Goff, Gabbert and Fitz who played well against them
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Post by mrmojo112058 on Oct 16, 2017 7:32:15 GMT -5
I have not seen snap counts yet, but I do not recall seeing Harris on the field. that must have been tough on him against the Jets. He was a healthy scratch for the game
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Post by digger0862 on Oct 16, 2017 8:04:18 GMT -5
It wasn't a fumble. He never lost the ball. Strange call.
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Post by wazzu on Oct 16, 2017 8:08:56 GMT -5
watched the TV feed and again a 2nd time. -any win in division is a good win. the Jets will be a 6-8 win team. on any given Sunday. -I thought the call in the end zone was the correct call after seeing the replay. If the Jets TE fumbled the ball at the 1 yard line and the ball rolled out of the back of the end zone, the Pats take possession. Yesterdays call was the same thing, except the pile on was involved -many have been calling for it, but nice to see Lewis play well. Would like to see him in the pass game more often as well. -from my view, I also thought Branch played well. I counted a tackle for loss and nice push. Jets unable to run also attributed to both Branch and Brown. -ok lets go over this again with the defense. they are playing a fairly vanilla bend but don't break. forget about yards. hold the opposing team to under 17 (the Pats defense did) and turn the ball over (the Pats defense did). the D-line needs to understand LESS IS MORE! Don't pressure the QB. Stay in your lane and make him stand in pocket and throw the ball. Throwing the ball in an 8 man back field will create turn overs. -Butler made 2 mistakes both under cutting routes. 1 lead to a Jets TD. if you are trying to create turn overs, it is going to happen sometimes. I thought Jones was competitive in the slot. I thought Bademosi had some understandable struggles. Also lets mention that DMC did not play FS all game. Harmon was also in that spot with DMC moving to SS at times. noticeable drop off from DMC to Harmon. -that being said, most any OC is going to find Roberts in pass coverage and target him. Roberts with a bad read play on the Jets TD. took 2 steps forward and then back into coverage. he was beaten on the very first step. credit the Jets for passing and not running against the Pats goal line D -big, big defensive play of the day was Butler on a corner blitz ending the game. good call from MattyP Yep, great call. Took some balls to blitz Butler there. -imo, memories are short. the Pats D struggled last season first 7-8 games against inferior opposition and QB play. they lost to the Phins. Got lucky against the Cards and the Phins a 2nd time before blowing out the Texans. then played poorly against the Bills and lost, before getting the Browns (rookie QB) a 2-4 Bengals team and the Steelers with out BenR. however the D did put it together and did play well the final few games/playoffs(struggled again in the SB) That's what cracks me up about all of our fair-weather-fans who are crying about the D. This is such a typical Patriots start. We see it almost every season-I find the penalties more concerning than the actual play. Cardona a 2nd time. Wow. these pick plays are so obvious. they need to fix that. -Best game of the year for Gronk, Lewis, Cooks and Solder. TB imo was not his usual self. -kudos and criticism to the staff. I thought the team came out very flat and the Jets were quite chatty. Nice adjustments (esp on D) however sealed this game. a missed FG and fumble made this game closer than the final score. Pats also had 1st and goal at I believe the Jets 6. They come out empty back field. Why?? at least show play action to somewhat freeze the D in the red zone For whatever reason, the Patriots tend to come out slow off of a bye (Yes, I realize last week wasn't a bye, but it was a longer than normal break between games). Fortunately they played well after the 2 quick Jets TDs.
-I get how the Jets feel screwed. I also get that Pats fans may feel lucky. but for crying out loud, is it too much to ask Fouts to at least understand the rule? I thought it was obviously a touchback. It seemed very clear to me. -I am certainly not HC material. and I enjoy the back and forth on BB, AND I ADMIT BB IS MOSTLY ALWAYS RIGHT!! But I would pull me hair out if Bowles was the Pats coach. Wow, do I disagree with his clock management and play calls -call me crazy. I thought the Pats finally dictated play by stopping the Jets run game and forcing the pass, and having Lewis run for positive yards. again, call me crazy. I think the team missed Blount. I would have been fine with the team signing Gillislee and Blount and not Burkhead. I have not seen that 3rd or 4th quarter eat the clock, stay in bounds, pound the ball from Gillislee yet. I like him running the ball, but prefer Blount in that eat the clock situation -ok. bend but dont break. Dl-men need to stay in their lanes. dont break containment. but for crying out loud, if you do and have the QB in the grasp, BRING HIM DOWN! I have not seen so many missed tackles on the QB in for ever. -just saying. I thought Ealy got away with a cheap shot on TB. kind of his way of giving BB the ole FU! -I have not seen snap counts yet, but I do not recall seeing Harris on the field. that must have been tough on him against the Jets. I believe Harris was inactive.-I saw Waddle line up a couple of times at TE. not a good sign for Allen It looks to me like Allen's days as a Patriot may be numbered.
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Post by Shelly on Oct 16, 2017 8:32:58 GMT -5
It wasn't a fumble. He never lost the ball. Strange call. Yes, he did. There were still photos on another thread here that show he clearly was not in possession of the ball. It was a fumble. The ball does not have to hit the ground to be a fumble.
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Post by carawaydj on Oct 16, 2017 8:40:40 GMT -5
It wasn't a fumble. He never lost the ball. Strange call. Yes, he did. There were still photos on another thread here that show he clearly was not in possession of the ball. It was a fumble. The ball does not have to hit the ground to be a fumble. Yes, that one still picture says it all. There is no way it's not a fumble.
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Post by digger0862 on Oct 16, 2017 8:45:10 GMT -5
It wasn't a fumble. He never lost the ball. Strange call. Yes, he did. There were still photos on another thread here that show he clearly was not in possession of the ball. It was a fumble. The ball does not have to hit the ground to be a fumble. Yes he bobbled it. In all my years of watching football that's the first fumble called that never touched the ground.
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Post by ATJ on Oct 16, 2017 8:50:28 GMT -5
Yes, he did. There were still photos on another thread here that show he clearly was not in possession of the ball. It was a fumble. The ball does not have to hit the ground to be a fumble. Yes, that one still picture says it all. There is no way it's not a fumble. And he lost possession BEFORE crossing the goal line and did not regain until he was out of bounds. This according to the NFL official making the call.
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Post by digger0862 on Oct 16, 2017 8:55:26 GMT -5
Yes, he did. There were still photos on another thread here that show he clearly was not in possession of the ball. It was a fumble. The ball does not have to hit the ground to be a fumble. Yes he bobbled it. In all my years of watching football that's the first fumble called that never touched the ground. Never mind. There have been many fumbles popped up in the air that never touched the ground. I understand now.
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Post by rkarp on Oct 16, 2017 9:01:17 GMT -5
I belive the “spirit”!of the rule is to not intentionally fumble forward for gain If the play was a sideline play, the ball is spotted and Jets continue play The fact that it was an end zone play was what made it confusing But that is the rule and it was properly corrected on replay
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Post by rkarp on Oct 16, 2017 9:11:04 GMT -5
Perhaps TB best pass of the day the route to Danny that he just couldnt hold. A first down there and game over Danny draped on by the defender and TB uncomfortable in the pocket delivered to the inch to Danny. Tremendous pass, yet incomplete
Best pass #2 deep pass to Cooks tightly coveted where only Cooks cook make a play
Best pass #3 blooper to White on the wheel route
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Post by fletcherbrook on Oct 16, 2017 9:15:24 GMT -5
to my knowledge the nfl didn't have access to still photos and only the shots we civvies saw. there is no way that that was indisputable evidence. its funny though...if this was called against the pats 95% of you would be screaming that there was not indisputable evidence. from a unbiased perspective based on video it was at best 50/50...no way in hell a sane person can call that overwhelming evidence. imo.
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Post by carawaydj on Oct 16, 2017 9:15:50 GMT -5
I thought there was a big disconnect between the game thread and the game regarding the pass rush. I know, a real shocker lol. Here is what NESN has: PASS RUSH Patriots fans really like to complain about the team’s pass rush, but it get the job done when needed. The Patriots recorded four sacks Sunday, their most in one game all season. New England had two sacks on the Jets’ final drive when it desperately needed a stop. Here are PFF’s pass-rush stats: Kyle Van Noy: two sacks, QB hit, two hurries Dont’a Hightower: sack, QB hit, hurry Deatrich Wise: QB hit, two hurries Trey Flowers: three hurries Malcom Brown: sack, hurry Malcolm Butler: QB hit, hurry Duron Harmon: hurry Cassius Marsh: hurry Adam Butler: hurry Lawrence Guy: hurry — Van Noy had his best game of the season. He now is tied with Flowers for the team lead in sacks on the season with 3.5. Read more at: nesn.com/2017/10/patriots-jets-takeaways-banged-up-tom-brady-stays-upright/
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Post by carawaydj on Oct 16, 2017 9:18:01 GMT -5
to my knowledge the nfl didn't have access to still photos and only the shots we civvies saw. there is no way that that was indisputable evidence. its funny though...if this was called against the pats 95% of you would be screaming that there was not indisputable evidence. from a unbiased perspective based on video it was at best 50/50...no way in hell a sane person can call that overwhelming evidence. imo. No, the ball just out there all by itself without any part of the body grasping it cannot possibly be indisputable lol.
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Post by fletcherbrook on Oct 16, 2017 9:18:24 GMT -5
by the way I'm happy the call went our way but lets call a spade a spade...for purposes of seeing the true picture...if not for a fumble(phantom?) at the 1 inch line this game was a draw--at best. it was a messy underwhelming performance all the way around. this against a "hated" rival who is tied for first with you? come one. something is deeply flawed with this teams internal organs.
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Post by patslifer on Oct 16, 2017 9:20:38 GMT -5
Perhaps TB best pass of the day the route to Danny that he just couldnt hold. A first down there and game over Danny draped on by the defender and TB uncomfortable in the pocket delivered to the inch to Danny. Tremendous pass, yet incomplete Best pass #2 deep pass to Cooks tightly coveted where only Cooks cook make a play Best pass #3 blooper to White on the wheel route Yeah, that pass to Danny on the sideline was on a rope. That's a tough pass to make and Brady put it on Danny's outstretched hands just an inch from the defender's hands. Funny enough, I saw a 11 year old kid that my son's team played against on Saturday make the same exact throw. It was a 15 yard out route and the WR was 2 feet from the sideline. The kid with a tight spiral and significant velocity, put the ball into a 12" x 12" space while our defender was draped all over the WR....All the coaches on the sideline just looked at one another and shook our heads...how do you defend that any better?....An 11 year old is not suppose to make that kind of throw. But hey, this is Texas and football is king, and our kids are pretty big down here from all that grass fed beef. On the blooper to White....Brady seemed to hang it up there for a long time, and I'm not sure if he did so because White was running his route and hadn't looked back yet, or if Brady was under duress and had to get rid of it. Either way, it was odd throw.
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Post by fletcherbrook on Oct 16, 2017 9:27:35 GMT -5
to my knowledge the nfl didn't have access to still photos and only the shots we civvies saw. there is no way that that was indisputable evidence. its funny though...if this was called against the pats 95% of you would be screaming that there was not indisputable evidence. from a unbiased perspective based on video it was at best 50/50...no way in hell a sane person can call that overwhelming evidence. imo. No, the ball just out there all by itself without any part of the body grasping it cannot possibly be indisputable lol. I know that is obvious from the pic Einstein. it was even obvious that the ball slightly moved from the video feeds. UNLESS they had other footage to say it was indisputable on when and where he lost and regained the ball you have to stick with the field call. I know its hard to understand for you because bias is a /strong elixir. I'm not saying it wasn't a fumble...im saying form all the angles I saw, and I watched the game twice and that play 6-8 times, its far from overwhelming evidence. more importantly if the shoe was on the other foot I would feel strongly that the call on the field would take precedent over what evidence I saw.
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jedediah10
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Post by jedediah10 on Oct 16, 2017 10:15:05 GMT -5
No, the ball just out there all by itself without any part of the body grasping it cannot possibly be indisputable lol. I know that is obvious from the pic Einstein. it was even obvious that the ball slightly moved from the video feeds. UNLESS they had other footage to say it was indisputable on when and where he lost and regained the ball you have to stick with the field call. I know its hard to understand for you because bias is a /strong elixir. I'm not saying it wasn't a fumble...im saying form all the angles I saw, and I watched the game twice and that play 6-8 times, its far from overwhelming evidence. more importantly if the shoe was on the other foot I would feel strongly that the call on the field would take precedent over what evidence I saw. they got the call right! why are we trying to argue the other shoe. yes, if it happened to the pats i'd have pissed too - but, when you see the still photo and read the rules it is indisputable. fine, it was hard to see during the game - apparently, the officials didn't thinks so.
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Post by mrmojo112058 on Oct 16, 2017 10:16:25 GMT -5
I wonder how many of us would be complaining if we didn't get that call.I wouldn't have second guessed it.The call surprised me to begin with.
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Post by ATJ on Oct 16, 2017 10:19:38 GMT -5
Perhaps TB best pass of the day the route to Danny that he just couldnt hold. A first down there and game over Danny draped on by the defender and TB uncomfortable in the pocket delivered to the inch to Danny. Tremendous pass, yet incomplete Best pass #2 deep pass to Cooks tightly coveted where only Cooks cook make a play Best pass #3 blooper to White on the wheel route Yeah, that pass to Danny on the sideline was on a rope. That's a tough pass to make and Brady put it on Danny's outstretched hands just an inch from the defender's hands. Funny enough, I saw a 11 year old kid that my son's team played against on Saturday make the same exact throw. It was a 15 yard out route and the WR was 2 feet from the sideline. The kid with a tight spiral and significant velocity, put the ball into a 12" x 12" space while our defender was draped all over the WR....All the coaches on the sideline just looked at one another and shook our heads...how do you defend that any better?....An 11 year old is not suppose to make that kind of throw. But hey, this is Texas and football is king, and our kids are pretty big down here from all that grass fed beef. On the blooper to White....Brady seemed to hang it up there for a long time, and I'm not sure if he did so because White was running his route and hadn't looked back yet, or if Brady was under duress and had to get rid of it. Either way, it was odd throw. With respect to the blooper, I don't know if Brady wanted to make that an eephus pitch on quite that trajectory but I do think he was trying to place it over the heads and between defenders. Certainly worked and were it not Tom Brady I'd say he stepped in s***t and came out smelling like a rose.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 10:22:30 GMT -5
4 completions to RB's, all to White. Eventually teams will key on this.
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Post by muzwell on Oct 16, 2017 10:59:22 GMT -5
to my knowledge the nfl didn't have access to still photos and only the shots we civvies saw. there is no way that that was indisputable evidence. its funny though...if this was called against the pats 95% of you would be screaming that there was not indisputable evidence. from a unbiased perspective based on video it was at best 50/50...no way in hell a sane person can call that overwhelming evidence. imo. Lots of folks seem to have this all bassackward. The evidence was indisputable that the ball was fumbled. Once that became clear, the prior call was a moot point. It changes everything. Like hitting the reset button. So, once that happens, there would have to be clear evidence that the runner regained control prior to hitting the pylon, which there just was not. It's not the other way around. The burden shifted once the ball was dislodged. This is not unlike the Tuck Rule or the process of the catch crap. It's a rule that doesn't seem to make sense...we all saw that he eventually regained control by the time he landed on his back out of bounds. But, we did not see him do that before he hit the pylon, which is what the official would have to see in order to call it a TD once the ball was clearly dislodged. Folks have a gripe with the rule, but it was called correctly in this case. I guess I also don't understand Jets fans...I thought they wanted to tank?
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Post by nflpatsfan on Oct 16, 2017 11:22:33 GMT -5
I guess I also don't understand Jets fans...I thought they wanted to tank? I guess they wanted to tank but take our scalp first and parade it around.
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