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Post by jri37 on Oct 27, 2017 10:13:04 GMT -5
Good message board discussion but for a variety of on the field and off the field reasons Anquans Boldin is not coming to NE. Could they bring in another WR? Maybe but Boldin will not be that player. I know its verboten to talk about this topic but Boldin has off the field social issues he feels passionately about and I don't think BB is going to go down that road with this particular team. I don't think football is Boldin's top priority.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 27, 2017 10:14:03 GMT -5
Moreover we are going to have to make a trade, for a 40 year old receiver, who likely won't pick up the system in time, who will retire at the end of this season yet again... sounds logical.
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Post by patseng on Oct 27, 2017 10:16:15 GMT -5
By bringing in Edelman you implied Dorsett was similar to Edelman otherwise why mention him at all since he was never part of the conversation, that's on you. I didn't say I thought you said I thought Julian sucked I said many so putting words in peoples mouth is kind of what you are doing I could have been talking about defensive tackle, running back or any other position. Does Garapollo suck because he hasn't beaten Brady out for a job? I used Edelman because they're both WR's, good grief. Stop trying to win arguments on non-sequiturs and stick to the meat of the debate. Then you are comparing Dorsett and Edelman! Jeez, Edelman was learning a new position, Dorsett has been a WR for a long time. Are you saying someone who has played a long time at their given position who can't get more than a handful of reps on the field doesn't sux and is comparable to those who can? If so we should have kept Harper, he didn't suck he just couldn't break the line up.... You see where that logic doesn't equate? I like how you use Garp as an example, little different when you are talking a position that only 1 player plays at a time instead of a position that has up to 5 on the field at any given time lol. Next time I see a 2 QB formation in a real play will be the first time but I will guarantee we will see a 4-5 WR somewhere in the league this week (maybe not NE because they only have 4 WRs and they don't want to put Dorsett on the field to be the 4th right now)
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Post by rkarp on Oct 27, 2017 10:21:00 GMT -5
because they have 4 WR's and at the moment 2 of them are beat up and one of them is a one trick outside speed guy When one them goes on the IR let me know, then we'll have reason to speculate. Seriously, are we really suggesting the Patriots will carry 6 receivers and 5 RB's on the active roster?!! where do you get 6? I count 4 if/when one of them does miss a game, Boldin will not be available
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 27, 2017 10:23:34 GMT -5
Then you are comparing Dorsett and Edelman! Jeez, Edelman was learning a new position, Dorsett has been a WR for a long time. Are you saying someone who has played a long time at their given position who can't get more than a handful of reps on the field doesn't sux and is comparable to those who can? If so we should have kept Harper, he didn't suck he just couldn't break the line up.... You see where that logic doesn't equate? I like how you use Garp as an example, little different when you are talking a position that only 1 player plays at a time instead of a position that has up to 5 on the field at any given time lol. Next time I see a 2 QB formation in a real play will be the first time but I will guarantee we will see a 4-5 WR somewhere in the league this week (maybe not NE because they only have 4 WRs and they don't want to put Dorsett on the field to be the 4th right now) Does bologna move ahead of roast beef in the deli case just because it's on sale? This argument has officially jumped the shark. There are at least 30 players on practice squads I would rather have than Boldin, and I loved him as a player in his prime. Houston, Pittsburgh, Titans and the Bears all use the same offensive system as us, we could poach any of their practice squads and find someone who will at least pick up the system. There are great players on other practice squads who don't use our system, very talented players we could have just by offering up a roster spot.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 27, 2017 10:26:35 GMT -5
where do you get 6? I count 4 if/when one of them does miss a game, Boldin will not be available Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, Dorsett and Slater... by suggesting Boldin you think they'll carry 6... along with 5 RB's... you guys realize an offensive lineman or some other position group player has to go right? For a 40 year old... does that sound like Belichick... at all, no eye on the future.... just win now?
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Post by rkarp on Oct 27, 2017 11:33:50 GMT -5
where do you get 6? I count 4 if/when one of them does miss a game, Boldin will not be available Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, Dorsett and Slater... by suggesting Boldin you think they'll carry 6... along with 5 RB's... you guys realize an offensive lineman or some other position group player has to go right? For a 40 year old... does that sound like Belichick... at all, no eye on the future.... just win now? 3 weeks ago Boldin turned 37 Slater is not a WR It is starting to look like neither is Dorsett What sounds like BB is...."will signing Boldin improve the team?" appears you say no which is fine. I simply feel Danny is playing too many snaps and Hogan is pretty beat up. Dorsett has not offered any help at all. Slater has not lined up on offense yet this season. it could be Dorsett. It could be BBolden. I do not think it would be Allen. Maybe try to get Hollister on the PS? Maybe the Bills want too much. I simply feel the team still needs to improve, regardless of position
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 11:59:32 GMT -5
I always feel with Dorsett, they never get him going in the short passing game. Get his quickness more involved, like Cooks. Let him run after the Catch. Seems all deep routes, where Safeties get involved, because time is needed for plays to develop. Many time plays with his are ad-lib plays, need more time with your QB, to get with each others tendency. Familiarity. Look like school yard plays. Just don't think Pats Coaches use him in better situations. Seem as soon as he come's in it's a long throw. Easier to Defend player that does only 1 thing. Need different plays, to get his speed in open field and use YAC more involved.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 12:09:27 GMT -5
I like Hollister. He plays hard for his size. Compared to other TE's. He could be similar to Boldin. Compare to WR's size.
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Post by muzwell on Oct 27, 2017 12:13:49 GMT -5
The Bills aren't trading him to the evil empire. Just zero chance of that. He wants to play down here (FL). I guess that means Tampa or Jax, because I don't see them sending him to Miami either. I don't think the Bucs would have any interest at all. So, it would seem to be Jags or bust. They do need a receiver.
Maybe a long shot would be back to Baltimore, if the Florida teams weren't interested.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 27, 2017 12:18:20 GMT -5
3 weeks ago Boldin turned 37 Slater is not a WR It is starting to look like neither is Dorsett What sounds like BB is...."will signing Boldin improve the team?" appears you say no which is fine. I simply feel Danny is playing too many snaps and Hogan is pretty beat up. Dorsett has not offered any help at all. Slater has not lined up on offense yet this season. it could be Dorsett. It could be BBolden. I do not think it would be Allen. Maybe try to get Hollister on the PS? Maybe the Bills want too much. I simply feel the team still needs to improve, regardless of position How many four WR sets do the Patriots run in a game... seriously? You're not playing Dorsett ahead of Cooks, Amendola or Hogan... start there. Gronk, if healthy isn't coming off the field, even if you go empty backfield there's no upgrade to having Gronk out there at receiver. Generally you have Dion, White or Rex out there... they'll start in the backfield then flex out to receiver to see if they can get a mismatch on a linebacker. So again... how many true 4 WR sets do the Patriots run in a single game? The answer is few to none. Dorsett was picked up for depth, for upside, for potential, for speed, possibly to return kicks/punts down the road... to develop. He may not work out. But in the meantime he isn't going to get snaps over healthy players who have proven to be dependable. Conversely they aren't going to bring in an unknown like Boldin, who they'd have to trade assets for from an AFC East rival and who will likely play no more then this season. They can poach a young developmental player from a practice squad and give up nothing, said player might have played a similar system in college and pick it up right away. The Bills can't get a used kicking tee for Boldin, the teams he would come out of retirement for, limit this even more. Hollister is a decent TE prospect, just because he isn't taking snaps from Gronk doesn't mean that he is no good, there's only so many snaps in a game. Time will tell on Dorsett, the fact he isn't playing over more established players doesn't mean squat.
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Post by patseng on Oct 27, 2017 12:23:10 GMT -5
Then you are comparing Dorsett and Edelman! Jeez, Edelman was learning a new position, Dorsett has been a WR for a long time. Are you saying someone who has played a long time at their given position who can't get more than a handful of reps on the field doesn't sux and is comparable to those who can? If so we should have kept Harper, he didn't suck he just couldn't break the line up.... You see where that logic doesn't equate? I like how you use Garp as an example, little different when you are talking a position that only 1 player plays at a time instead of a position that has up to 5 on the field at any given time lol. Next time I see a 2 QB formation in a real play will be the first time but I will guarantee we will see a 4-5 WR somewhere in the league this week (maybe not NE because they only have 4 WRs and they don't want to put Dorsett on the field to be the 4th right now) Does bologna move ahead of roast beef in the deli case just because it's on sale? This argument has officially jumped the shark. There are at least 30 players on practice squads I would rather have than Boldin, and I loved him as a player in his prime. Houston, Pittsburgh, Titans and the Bears all use the same offensive system as us, we could poach any of their practice squads and find someone who will at least pick up the system. There are great players on other practice squads who don't use our system, very talented players we could have just by offering up a roster spot. Wth? Your arguments make zero sense. First you bring in Edelman for no reason except as a comparison, then you say it isn't and use Garp instead, and now deli meats? You are all over the first. Oh, it jumped the shark when you first tried to bring Edelman into it, you just nuked the fridge with this last statement. you are all over the place Wozzy. If you don't like Boldin that's fine, just say that but to try to make these massive leaps all over the place and trying to compare apples to rap is just weird.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 27, 2017 12:33:27 GMT -5
Wth? Your arguments make zero sense. First you bring in Edelman for no reason except as a comparison, then you say it isn't and use Garp instead, and now deli meats? You are all over the first. Oh, it jumped the shark when you first tried to bring Edelman into it, you just nuked the fridge with this last statement. you are all over the place Wozzy. If you don't like Boldin that's fine, just say that but to try to make these massive leaps all over the place and trying to compare apples to rap is just weird. I could have used Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice or god as an example... it still doesn't mean I think Dorsett can create heaven and earth. Thurman Thomas kept Barry Sanders on the bench at Oklahoma for his first two years in college, did Barry suck for his first two years? Barry Sanders is arguably the greatest RB to ever play the game, he wasn't going to play ahead of Thomas because nobody including the coaches knew that at the time nor would you disrupt the harmony on your team by making such a move. Teams have depth charts for a reason, you earn the snaps you get. You aren't pulling Brandin Cooks or Amendola for a game and plugging Dorsett in week 9 just because you have a hunch he will do good, you already know Amendola will do a great job and he's earned the right to be there.
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Post by patseng on Oct 27, 2017 13:56:06 GMT -5
Wth? Your arguments make zero sense. First you bring in Edelman for no reason except as a comparison, then you say it isn't and use Garp instead, and now deli meats? You are all over the first. Oh, it jumped the shark when you first tried to bring Edelman into it, you just nuked the fridge with this last statement. you are all over the place Wozzy. If you don't like Boldin that's fine, just say that but to try to make these massive leaps all over the place and trying to compare apples to rap is just weird. I could have used Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice or god as an example... it still doesn't mean I think Dorsett can create heaven and earth. Thurman Thomas kept Barry Sanders on the bench at Oklahoma for his first two years in college, did Barry suck for his first two years? Barry Sanders is arguably the greatest RB to ever play the game, he wasn't going to play ahead of Thomas because nobody including the coaches knew that at the time nor would you disrupt the harmony on your team by making such a move. Teams have depth charts for a reason, you earn the snaps you get. You aren't pulling Brandin Cooks or Amendola for a game and plugging Dorsett in week 9 just because you have a hunch he will do good, you already know Amendola will do a great job and he's earned the right to be there. Wth does this have anything to do with Dorsett? Does god play football? Is Barry Sanders a WR? Dorsett has been in the league for a decent chunk of time and hasn't shown anything. Hogan's been playing hurt as has Amendola. If Dorsett was any good he would get more playing time or has something changed that BB no longer plays the player that performs? BB has a habit of giving reps to players who don't suck even if better players are ahead of them he'll find them reps, why because it keeps everyone fresh! Just because Cooks is the best WR that doesn't mean BB plays him 100% of snaps, nor does he Hogan, nor does he Amendola. There is plenty of room for reps as per Pats history when they went 4-5 deep even their 4th WR was still getting 30+% of snaps a game. Literally you are arguing, just because a player can't see the field doesn't mean they suck because bologna isn't in the front of the case when it's on sale and Garp doesn't play ahead of Brady because only one can be on the field at a time..... On that point you might as well say Dorsett is fast because cars at red lights don't move..... How do you feel about Richards? Does Richards not suck because he has McCourty, Chung, and Harmon in front of him? No of course not, he still sucks. Having good players ahead of you doesn't mean you don't suck. By that logic does that mean Slater is a good WR he just doesn't get reps? You see where that logic is faulty right? btw in college almost no position starts their first and most don't even start their second year. Tom Brady shared time in college, that's how college is! Jerry Rice didn't even go to a D1 school. You can't gauge any player performance or lack of performance based on early college year performance because some develop later in life and some develop early and college is usually a transition time but we aren't even talking college with Dorsett, he's been in the league for 3 years now! How many years did Rice, Brady, or Sanders sit on the bench combined before earning starting roles? How many of them going into their 3rd season still couldn't see the field? I mean really look at your comparisons to Dorsett - Edelman (brand new position to learn still looked more impressive year 1 than Dorsett currently), Sanders, Rice, God, bologna. These have to be the most silly comparisons and largest leaps of logic I've ever seen
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Post by texaspat on Oct 27, 2017 14:02:23 GMT -5
I'm not saying that Phillip Dorsett is going to become a star, or even a serviceable WR for the Patriots. But, he came out early from Miami, and was drafted by one of the worst franchises in the game...and got stuck with some awful coaches in Indy. Cut this kid a little slack, and lets' see if the Patriots coaching staff can eventually get something out of him. You can't coach 4.3 speed.
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Post by patseng on Oct 27, 2017 14:26:50 GMT -5
I'm not saying that Phillip Dorsett is going to become a star, or even a serviceable WR for the Patriots. But, he came out early from Miami, and was drafted by one of the worst franchises in the game...and got stuck with some awful coaches in Indy. Cut this kid a little slack, and lets' see if the Patriots coaching staff can eventually get something out of him. You can't coach 4.3 speed. What do you know, that's exactly what B. Johnson told the Pats coaching staff to get him drafted too lol
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Post by kjfitone on Oct 27, 2017 14:32:07 GMT -5
He's a good player and could help, especially if MM isn't going to be back but I can't see Buffalo allowing him to go to the Patriots. I think there are other spots on the roster, especially on defense where they could use more help. Just my opinion.
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gibsonsg
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Post by gibsonsg on Oct 27, 2017 14:43:26 GMT -5
Always liked Boldin's play, but yes we've seen many vet WR's come to NE and fall flat. Don't know if he's the answer, but if Gronk gets hurt again we're gonna have some serious pass catcher issues. Might be good insurance.
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Post by patseng on Oct 27, 2017 14:55:26 GMT -5
I don't really see the Bills trading him to us either but I don't agree with the fear that other WRs came in and didn't work so we shouldn't bring in another player. The reasoning is pretty simple really, if we don't bring in vets and frankly we aren't exactly the best WR drafters either so using the same logic they shouldn't draft a WR so where do they get WRs from? You can't be afraid to bring players in because of past failures otherwise the Pats would never draft a single Cb, S, WR again and would never sign another LB, CB, or WR again because lets face it they haven't had the best luck via FA or draft at those positions. Now there is the risk factor, obviously trading/spending a conditional late round pick or or min signing bonus to sign on a player isn't much of a risk vs saying trading/spending a top 50 pick or large guaranteed money but the Pats shouldn't be scared of bringing a player in because past players didn't work
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 27, 2017 15:08:38 GMT -5
Wth does this have anything to do with Dorsett? Does god play football? Is Barry Sanders a WR? Dorsett has been in the league for a decent chunk of time and hasn't shown anything. Hogan's been playing hurt as has Amendola. If Dorsett was any good he would get more playing time or has something changed that BB no longer plays the player that performs? BB has a habit of giving reps to players who don't suck even if better players are ahead of them he'll find them reps, why because it keeps everyone fresh! Just because Cooks is the best WR that doesn't mean BB plays him 100% of snaps, nor does he Hogan, nor does he Amendola. There is plenty of room for reps as per Pats history when they went 4-5 deep even their 4th WR was still getting 30+% of snaps a game. Literally you are arguing, just because a player can't see the field doesn't mean they suck because bologna isn't in the front of the case when it's on sale and Garp doesn't play ahead of Brady because only one can be on the field at a time..... On that point you might as well say Dorsett is fast because cars at red lights don't move..... How do you feel about Richards? Does Richards not suck because he has McCourty, Chung, and Harmon in front of him? No of course not, he still sucks. Having good players ahead of you doesn't mean you don't suck. By that logic does that mean Slater is a good WR he just doesn't get reps? You see where that logic is faulty right? btw in college almost no position starts their first and most don't even start their second year. Tom Brady shared time in college, that's how college is! Jerry Rice didn't even go to a D1 school. You can't gauge any player performance or lack of performance based on early college year performance because some develop later in life and some develop early and college is usually a transition time but we aren't even talking college with Dorsett, he's been in the league for 3 years now! How many years did Rice, Brady, or Sanders sit on the bench combined before earning starting roles? How many of them going into their 3rd season still couldn't see the field? I mean really look at your comparisons to Dorsett - Edelman (brand new position to learn still looked more impressive year 1 than Dorsett currently), Sanders, Rice, God, bologna. These have to be the most silly comparisons and largest leaps of logic I've ever seen I'm not going to spend anymore needless time arguing this garbage, BB didn't sit down Deion Branch to play Edelman and not because Julian sucked. You don't sit down great players to get younger players reps, depth charts are not sacrosanct but serve a purpose. And strangely enough Philip Dorsett is still on the Patriot's roster. When Boldin is signed up, go ahead and let me know... I'll won't be holding my breath. If something like this did happen it will be followed by an announcement that Amendola is done for the season... that will be a good time for speculation. But I'm sure it's highly likely our AFC East nemesis will help us out... lol.
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Post by patseng on Oct 27, 2017 15:19:59 GMT -5
Wth does this have anything to do with Dorsett? Does god play football? Is Barry Sanders a WR? Dorsett has been in the league for a decent chunk of time and hasn't shown anything. Hogan's been playing hurt as has Amendola. If Dorsett was any good he would get more playing time or has something changed that BB no longer plays the player that performs? BB has a habit of giving reps to players who don't suck even if better players are ahead of them he'll find them reps, why because it keeps everyone fresh! Just because Cooks is the best WR that doesn't mean BB plays him 100% of snaps, nor does he Hogan, nor does he Amendola. There is plenty of room for reps as per Pats history when they went 4-5 deep even their 4th WR was still getting 30+% of snaps a game. Literally you are arguing, just because a player can't see the field doesn't mean they suck because bologna isn't in the front of the case when it's on sale and Garp doesn't play ahead of Brady because only one can be on the field at a time..... On that point you might as well say Dorsett is fast because cars at red lights don't move..... How do you feel about Richards? Does Richards not suck because he has McCourty, Chung, and Harmon in front of him? No of course not, he still sucks. Having good players ahead of you doesn't mean you don't suck. By that logic does that mean Slater is a good WR he just doesn't get reps? You see where that logic is faulty right? btw in college almost no position starts their first and most don't even start their second year. Tom Brady shared time in college, that's how college is! Jerry Rice didn't even go to a D1 school. You can't gauge any player performance or lack of performance based on early college year performance because some develop later in life and some develop early and college is usually a transition time but we aren't even talking college with Dorsett, he's been in the league for 3 years now! How many years did Rice, Brady, or Sanders sit on the bench combined before earning starting roles? How many of them going into their 3rd season still couldn't see the field? I mean really look at your comparisons to Dorsett - Edelman (brand new position to learn still looked more impressive year 1 than Dorsett currently), Sanders, Rice, God, bologna. These have to be the most silly comparisons and largest leaps of logic I've ever seen I'm not going to spend anymore needless time arguing this garbage, BB didn't sit down Deion Branch to play Edelman and not because Julian sucked. You don't sit down great players to get younger players reps, depth charts are not sacrosanct but serve a purpose. And strangely enough Philip Dorsett is still on the Patriot's roster. When Boldin is signed up, go ahead and let me know... I'll won't be holding my breath. If something like this did happen it will be followed by an announcement that Amendola is done for the season... that will be a good time for speculation. But I'm sure it's highly likely our AFC East nemesis will help us out... lol. Edelman was still learning the position and if you only play your best players and never give reps to young players then why do any of them ever see the field? That makes no sense Wozzy. How did Mitchell ever see the field last year with Hogan, Amendola, and Edelman in front of him? According to your logic Mitchell should have just sat on the bench. How about plain a simple if they are good enough they will get reps and if they aren't they won't. Heck even Richards got reps the first game and then what... did BB suddenly realize there was other players ahead of him on the depth chart and decided to bench him instead after realizing he forgot that? By the way what do you think of Richards? I'm guessing you don't think he sucks given your logic above.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 27, 2017 16:51:56 GMT -5
Edelman was still learning the position and if you only play your best players and never give reps to young players then why do any of them ever see the field? That makes no sense Wozzy. How did Mitchell ever see the field last year with Hogan, Amendola, and Edelman in front of him? According to your logic Mitchell should have just sat on the bench. How about plain a simple if they are good enough they will get reps and if they aren't they won't. Heck even Richards got reps the first game and then what... did BB suddenly realize there was other players ahead of him on the depth chart and decided to bench him instead after realizing he forgot that? By the way what do you think of Richards? I'm guessing you don't think he sucks given your logic above. Mitchell and Dorsett are the same age, guess that doesn't matter to you. In 2016 Hogan missed 2 games, Edelman missed 3, Amendola only started 4, Gronk started 6... add all that up, shows you how Mitchell started 6 games at the end of the last season. Lets see how this season plays out, Dorsett may be asked to contribute by season's end... far more likely than the Pats trading for a senior citizen from a division rival and hoping he figures out our system. Richards is still on our roster.
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bredbru
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Post by bredbru on Oct 28, 2017 2:40:35 GMT -5
hey mb, similar thoughts when i saw/heard boldin was available for trade only. some remedy for more depth would be very prudent.
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Post by rkarp on Oct 28, 2017 5:33:55 GMT -5
again, it is only week 8, and Edelman and (most likely)Mitchell are done for the season, and Hogan and Danny are beat up. Dorsett is potentially a down the road player. the question is what will the WR group look like and feel like by week 12 and 13? is obtaining a WR now a prudent decision to prepare for the second half of the season and beyond?
I am not sitting here pining for Boldin to be on the team. but I am thinking is there a player out there that could improve the WR depth for down the road, because from what we have seen from Danny and Hogan is that they are physically beat up, and Dorsett has proven to be a deep route runner only (so far). could the team get a player that can go over the middle, thrive in a quick, short yardage passing game, and come in and understand some of the offense in 4 weeks? that COULD be Boldin. it could be someone else. maybe it is Hollister. Maybe it is Allen.
all I am saying is if the team can upgrade its depth, they should do it. I am of the opinion Boldin could be an upgrade
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 28, 2017 6:06:12 GMT -5
again, it is only week 8, and Edelman and (most likely)Mitchell are done for the season, and Hogan and Danny are beat up. Dorsett is potentially a down the road player. the question is what will the WR group look like and feel like by week 12 and 13? is obtaining a WR now a prudent decision to prepare for the second half of the season and beyond? I am not sitting here pining for Boldin to be on the team. but I am thinking is there a player out there that could improve the WR depth for down the road, because from what we have seen from Danny and Hogan is that they are physically beat up, and Dorsett has proven to be a deep route runner only (so far). could the team get a player that can go over the middle, thrive in a quick, short yardage passing game, and come in and understand some of the offense in 4 weeks? that COULD be Boldin. it could be someone else. maybe it is Hollister. Maybe it is Allen. all I am saying is if the team can upgrade its depth, they should do it. I am of the opinion Boldin could be an upgrade You guys are gung-ho to add depth without providing answers as to how we fit yet another receiver on the roster? Who gets cut or put on the IR, if Danny or Hogan aren't done for the season then it ain't happening.
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