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Post by seawolf on Dec 7, 2017 18:00:05 GMT -5
I actually agree getting BB and Brady is lucky! Add having Kraft, because BB would not coach for Jerry Jones or Woody Johnson or the 75% of teams that have meddling owners. I will strongly contend the AFC East is an advantage to play in. The difference in record between it and other divisions over 17 years in insignificant and amounts to no more than .5 wins a year for the Patriots over random teams. --The Patriots basically give out the coaching blueprint on how to beat a team and the poor AFC east teams get that twice a year each. --The AFC East teams are bastardized teams traditionally built with too much relative emphasis on the defensive line as that was the conventional way of targeting the Patriots. Basically having 6 games a year against a team that is designed top to bottom just to beat you does not sound like an advantage. --Because of parity scheduling the PAtriots play the best teams from other divisions year after year...not an advantage. They play the Steelers or Ravens and hardly ever the Browns or Bengals in the years the AFC North just has 4 games with the AFC East. a little off topic but I thought funny. I forgot the name of the NY jets owner (but I knew BB would never work for him) so i googled "owner of NY jets" I got this in #1 position....truly If you search the word "Jets" then Brady is listed as the team's owner as well. Brady is 23–7 in his career against the Jets. He won both games against New York last year. The actual Jets owner is Woody Johnson, who purchased the team for a reported $635 million Now the N Jests are with $2-3b That's luck And I dont think he earned the $695m either Thas luck
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Post by Examiner on Dec 7, 2017 18:08:32 GMT -5
Cowherd is a New Englander who roots for Boston teams, but believes he projects objectivity on the national stage by either ripping, decrying or discrediting teams and players from that region. He does this to gain friends and "credibility" as a non-homer among media cohorts. But, like his accusing David Ortiz of juicing after his run during the 2013 WS (ignoring the fact that the grand slam and a bloop single were his only hits in the ALCS), his ideas are so STUPID that it just makes him look like all the worse blow hard, narcissistic idiot.
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Post by seawolf on Dec 7, 2017 18:11:48 GMT -5
Cowherd has to come up with a new story every day He is in the Click Business Saying stuff like this is what he does He wants to be interesting, not necessarily good
This was a lazy attempt at best Sort of like asking Did the Patriots win it or Atlanta lose it
I guess every other team is unlucky
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gardnerhey
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
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Post by gardnerhey on Dec 7, 2017 20:29:54 GMT -5
In answer to your questions I'm pretty sure he would respond something like this. 1. Spending a first round pick for a coach is not the lucky part, For that coach to end up being the BB we see today was extremely lucky. 2. Having Brady fall to the sixth round was't lucky even though BB couldn't believe he was still on the board (remember the Pats weren't looking for a qb that year) That sixth round pick turning into "Tom Brady" was extremely lucky. 3. They are lucky for just the reasons stated. That doesn't mean if they were in any other division it wouldn't be the same but it might not be. 4. While this last one may not be pure luck, since the Pats could have built a dome instead of Gillette Stadium, but dome teams don't usually do as well in the playoffs as out door teams do. Part of me thinks the rest of the division is so bad because they sometimes resort to desperate measures, in an effort to compete with the Patriots. I would tend to agree and is kind of what I tried to say. The AFC east is probably dysfunctional because of the pats and any other division that they were put in would then become dysfunctional.
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Post by coolade on Dec 7, 2017 20:30:01 GMT -5
Pretty sure we had a thread on the word "Lucky" last year started by babe.
It's a fascinating word.. Lol.
Great song by daft punk "get lucky"
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gardnerhey
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
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Post by gardnerhey on Dec 7, 2017 20:56:34 GMT -5
My response to Cowherd would be.... 1. BB was under contract with the Jets if Bob Kraft had the foresight to trade a #1 pick against all advice I would say that Bob Kraft understood what BB was specifically as it applied to how Kraft envisioned he wanted to run his franchise. It has been documented during BB's previous time spent in NE that the 2 shared similar views on organizational strategy. So if any leader that targets a person that he deems worthy of running his business and it turns out succesful we should call it luck? Seems like a stretch to me. 2. The draft is an educated crapshoot. Teams hit and miss on players in every single round in every slot in those rounds. The bottom line is how does the organization incorporate the players they do draft into their program. Tom Brady wasn't the GOAT the minute he he took the field. He worked his ass off and prepared like no other and if you want to say luck was involved perhaps it was lucky he was fortunate enough to find an organization to understand what they had early on in his career. 3. The team and its success is what it is. They have the GQBOAT and they prepare and work as hard every week as well or better than every other team in the league. 4. I think the Pats win regardless of the conditions. I don't know the exact numbers but I would bet their winning % is roughly the same indoors, outdoors, good weather, bad weather. Still not sure of his point. This luck thing just seems like a stretch. 1. I would just say how many sure bet head coaching prospects have flamed out? A lot of them. I would dare say 90% of them do. In any case even if it is only 50% I would still say the Pats were lucky BB turned out as good as he has. 2. If BB is surprised someone is still available on the draft board I would say he was lucky Brady hadn't been picked yet by anyone else. Kind of like how the Titanic was unlucky to hit the iceberg. If they had passed that area an hour before or an hour after they did they probably wouldn't have hit it. 3 Is the only one I don't quite agree with Cowherd on 4. His point is non-outdoor/non-cold weathers teams are at a disadvantage when they travel to cold regions like New England in winter when the weather is cold. I remember the Titans coming up to Foxboro and one of their players were caught saying he was so cold he was freaking out.
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gardnerhey
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
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Post by gardnerhey on Dec 7, 2017 20:59:15 GMT -5
Cowherd has to come up with a new story every day He is in the Click Business Saying stuff like this is what he does He wants to be interesting, not necessarily good This was a lazy attempt at best Sort of like asking Did the Patriots win it or Atlanta lose it I guess every other team is unlucky I would say they are since they all had a chance to draft Brady and the Browns are seriously unlucky for choosing the media over their head coach.
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Post by coolade on Dec 7, 2017 21:09:14 GMT -5
One lucky break. The Patriots had a terrible record when Bob Kraft took over. That was the lucky break. Kraft had the business smarts to realize that when his team won, he made money. Everything else was business acumen. It started with finding a coach. The three best prospects were Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick. Bob Kraft hired all three of these legends, one at a time. Both Parcells and Carroll went on to minor glory. Belichick was a bit hard to land but Kraft cut the deal. Behind Belichick, Bob Kraft made the business decision to always pamper the players with non-cap perks so that free agents would prefer to sign with New England. Kraft thought of everything from first class tickets for prospects to enormous diamond rings, even a ring for going 16-0 one season, to two private "Air Kraft" luxury sleeper jets for the team's redeye flights. In the end Kraft reaped dollars for pennies invested. Bob Kraft made a hard decision not to flee to Hartford but to leave the stadium in Foxboro, at the center of the Patriots' natural fan base. Kraft had to build his own stadium with his own money, but he made the right financial decision in the end. Kraft upgraded his team by buying the NFL's only private talent scouting staff. The Patriots are almost ordinary at finding first round draft choices -- anybody with a draft magazine can pick a first rounder -- but a wall of bottom-level talent comes waltzing into Foxboro and adding value year after year. The scouts found a guard who didn't know how to put on his shoulder pads, a quarterback with zero games experience and a right tackle undergoing chemo. interesting stuff...Kraft. "upgraded his team by buying the NFL's only private talent scouting staff..."? What is a private scouting staff?
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Post by texaspat on Dec 7, 2017 21:13:31 GMT -5
Cowherd has to come up with a new story every day He is in the Click Business Saying stuff like this is what he does He wants to be interesting, not necessarily good This was a lazy attempt at best Sort of like asking Did the Patriots win it or Atlanta lose it I guess every other team is unlucky I would say they are since they all had a chance to draft Brady and the Browns are seriously unlucky for choosing the media over their head coach. The conventional wisdom is that BB failed in Cleveland. But, nothing can be further from the truth. He turned that sorry franchise around in his third year, leading it to an 11-5 record, and a playoff birth. In the first round, BB's Browns beat Bill Parcell's Patriots. As the following season began, the Browns were SB favorites. But, owner Art Modell dropped a bomb on Cleveland when he announced that he would be moving his team to Baltimore the following year. After that, Belichick's Browns fell apart...and BB was fired the following year. Art Modell decided to leave for Baltimore after the Cleveland politicians chose to build a stadium for the Indians, rather than the city's beloved Browns. Just where does "luck" figure into that equation?
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Post by jri37 on Dec 7, 2017 21:23:25 GMT -5
My response to Cowherd would be.... 1. BB was under contract with the Jets if Bob Kraft had the foresight to trade a #1 pick against all advice I would say that Bob Kraft understood what BB was specifically as it applied to how Kraft envisioned he wanted to run his franchise. It has been documented during BB's previous time spent in NE that the 2 shared similar views on organizational strategy. So if any leader that targets a person that he deems worthy of running his business and it turns out succesful we should call it luck? Seems like a stretch to me. 2. The draft is an educated crapshoot. Teams hit and miss on players in every single round in every slot in those rounds. The bottom line is how does the organization incorporate the players they do draft into their program. Tom Brady wasn't the GOAT the minute he he took the field. He worked his ass off and prepared like no other and if you want to say luck was involved perhaps it was lucky he was fortunate enough to find an organization to understand what they had early on in his career. 3. The team and its success is what it is. They have the GQBOAT and they prepare and work as hard every week as well or better than every other team in the league. 4. I think the Pats win regardless of the conditions. I don't know the exact numbers but I would bet their winning % is roughly the same indoors, outdoors, good weather, bad weather. Still not sure of his point. This luck thing just seems like a stretch. 1. I would just say how many sure bet head coaching prospects have flamed out? A lot of them. I would dare say 90% of them do. In any case even if it is only 50% I would still say the Pats were lucky BB turned out as good as he has. 2. If BB is surprised someone is still available on the draft board I would say he was lucky Brady hadn't been picked yet by anyone else. Kind of like how the Titanic was unlucky to hit the iceberg. If they had passed that area an hour before or an hour after they did they probably wouldn't have hit it. 3 Is the only one I don't quite agree with Cowherd on 4. His point is non-outdoor/non-cold weathers teams are at a disadvantage when they travel to cold regions like New England in winter when the weather is cold. I remember the Titans coming up to Foxboro and one of their players were caught saying he was so cold he was freaking out. 1. What difference does it make how many coaches flamed out? Bob Kraft identified a candidate to run his orginization based on many factors but the main one being the economic philosophy it would take to run a football operation in the salary cap era. Kraft traded valuable draft capital to acquire the person he felt could lead the orginization to success. That's not luck that is smart business. Luck is hiring a coach with no track record and he turns out to be Bill Belichick. 2. You could say that the reason he was still on the board was the ineptitude of the other teams that reportedly put 1st and 3rd round grades on Brady and never took him. Based on his combine and pro day the pats probably took him a round later than they should have. I would argue that what you call luck is the ineptitude of many other teams. 3. This is what I'll say about #3... www.bostonsportsonline.com/weak-division/4. It's no difference to when cold weather teams go to Miami late in the season. Good teams are able to deal with all conditions hot, cold, wet, indoors etc... Here's my suggestion to other teams, get homefield advantage and you won't have to worry about these perceived disadvantages. I find it it hard as some other posters have pointed out to assign luck as a reason for their success. All the hard work that gets put in week in and week out by the staff and players preparing diligently for all sceanrios and details that might arise in a game IMO is the major reason for their success with a little luck sprinkled in.
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donholman
On the Game Day Roster
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Post by donholman on Dec 7, 2017 21:53:32 GMT -5
The silliness of his argument is that he identifies correlative factors as causal. If Cowherd had simply said that no future NFL team will ever the have the sustained success that the 2001-20$$ Patriots have had, I don't think too many of us would have had a problem with that. Nothing "made" the Patriots' successful besides the fact that they win way more games than anyone else. Plenty of other teams possess those same factors, but it has not made them successful. Lots of coaches have "chips on their shoulder", but it doesn't help them win games. Obviously there is some sort of organizational formula that allows the success to run year after year, but that's the opposite of luck. When the success stops, then we'll have a better idea.
But, on the bright side, if the whole world has moved on from "cheating" to "luck", that's a step in the right direction.
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Post by coolade on Dec 7, 2017 22:07:55 GMT -5
O The silliness of his argument is that he identifies correlative factors as causal. If Cowherd had simply said that no future NFL team will ever the have the sustained success that the 2001-20$$ Patriots have had, I don't think too many of us would have had a problem with that. Nothing "made" the Patriots' successful besides the fact that they win way more games than anyone else. Plenty of other teams possess those same factors, but it has not made them successful. Lots of coaches have "chips on their shoulder", but it doesn't help them win games. Obviously there is some sort of organizational formula that allows the success to run year after year, but that's the opposite of luck. When the success stops, then we'll have a better idea. But, on the bright side, if the whole world has moved on from "cheating" to "luck", that's a step in the right direction. Great point... Lol. but they are still smarmy dikheads.
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Post by bostonts on Dec 8, 2017 2:33:43 GMT -5
The irony is that Cowherd's own success was based on one lucky break: getting picked up by ESPN. If that hadn't happened he'd be sticking a microphone in Nick Saban's face after a 62-0 blowout in nowheresville each weekend.
Now that Cowherd took a body blow to his own platform by going to an unproven one, he's desperate for audience share and rolling out the hottest takes he can pull out of his keyster. I don't know of anyone credible at any level of society who takes him seriously. Well, except Commie Contrarian and we haven't seen that nutter in a while.
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Post by paulk on Dec 8, 2017 7:54:25 GMT -5
One lucky break. The Patriots had a terrible record when Bob Kraft took over. That was the lucky break. Kraft had the business smarts to realize that when his team won, he made money. Everything else was business acumen. It started with finding a coach. The three best prospects were Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick. Bob Kraft hired all three of these legends, one at a time. Both Parcells and Carroll went on to minor glory. Belichick was a bit hard to land but Kraft cut the deal. Behind Belichick, Bob Kraft made the business decision to always pamper the players with non-cap perks so that free agents would prefer to sign with New England. Kraft thought of everything from first class tickets for prospects to enormous diamond rings, even a ring for going 16-0 one season, to two private "Air Kraft" luxury sleeper jets for the team's redeye flights. In the end Kraft reaped dollars for pennies invested. Bob Kraft made a hard decision not to flee to Hartford but to leave the stadium in Foxboro, at the center of the Patriots' natural fan base. Kraft had to build his own stadium with his own money, but he made the right financial decision in the end. Kraft upgraded his team by buying the NFL's only private talent scouting staff. The Patriots are almost ordinary at finding first round draft choices -- anybody with a draft magazine can pick a first rounder -- but a wall of bottom-level talent comes waltzing into Foxboro and adding value year after year. The scouts found a guard who didn't know how to put on his shoulder pads, a quarterback with zero games experience and a right tackle undergoing chemo. interesting stuff...Kraft. "upgraded his team by buying the NFL's only private talent scouting staff..."? What is a private scouting staff? Most NFL owners save money by pooling their resources. The same scout sends his (almost never her) reports back to a bunch of teams, and that's why the average team has no advantage over the other teams.
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Post by agcsbill on Dec 8, 2017 8:33:05 GMT -5
Luck, be it good or bad, is a happenstance occurrence that doesn't happen again for a long time or is something that happens when there is no other explanation. A classic example is the last year the Ravens won the Super Bowl. Joe Flacco had a magical run in the playoffs, playing out of his mind for those four games, to lead that team to the win. As a result he got a mega contract. Ever since then he has flamed out and has come no where near close to that performance. That is luck. Brady and the Pats do it year after year after year, that is not luck.
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Post by Shelly on Dec 8, 2017 8:53:31 GMT -5
1. I would just say how many sure bet head coaching prospects have flamed out? A lot of them. I would dare say 90% of them do. In any case even if it is only 50% I would still say the Pats were lucky BB turned out as good as he has. 2. If BB is surprised someone is still available on the draft board I would say he was lucky Brady hadn't been picked yet by anyone else. Kind of like how the Titanic was unlucky to hit the iceberg. If they had passed that area an hour before or an hour after they did they probably wouldn't have hit it. 3 Is the only one I don't quite agree with Cowherd on 4. His point is non-outdoor/non-cold weathers teams are at a disadvantage when they travel to cold regions like New England in winter when the weather is cold. I remember the Titans coming up to Foxboro and one of their players were caught saying he was so cold he was freaking out. 1. What difference does it make how many coaches flamed out? Bob Kraft identified a candidate to run his orginization based on many factors but the main one being the economic philosophy it would take to run a football operation in the salary cap era. Kraft traded valuable draft capital to acquire the person he felt could lead the orginization to success. That's not luck that is smart business. Luck is hiring a coach with no track record and he turns out to be Bill Belichick. 2. You could say that the reason he was still on the board was the ineptitude of the other teams that reportedly put 1st and 3rd round grades on Brady and never took him. Based on his combine and pro day the pats probably took him a round later than they should have. I would argue that what you call luck is the ineptitude of many other teams. 3. This is what I'll say about #3... www.bostonsportsonline.com/weak-division/4. It's no difference to when cold weather teams go to Miami late in the season. Good teams are able to deal with all conditions hot, cold, wet, indoors etc... Here's my suggestion to other teams, get homefield advantage and you won't have to worry about these perceived disadvantages. I find it it hard as some other posters have pointed out to assign luck as a reason for their success. All the hard work that gets put in week in and week out by the staff and players preparing diligently for all sceanrios and details that might arise in a game IMO is the major reason for their success with a little luck sprinkled in. I loved the last paragraph of that link: ========== So here’s your quick rebuttal. Since 2001, the Patriots are just as good in their division as out of it – they’re dominant in both. They’re the only team with a winning record against playoff teams – and they’re over .600. It’s not that the rest of the AFC East isn’t good, it’s that the Patriots are the most dominant team in NFL history. It’s not that they have the easiest route, it’s that they make that route look easy. And you’ll never hear them complain about it, like Earl Thomas. ========== So much for "everybody knows the AFC East is a weak division" and for anyone ignorant enough to repeat that crap. (You know who you are).
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 8, 2017 9:26:47 GMT -5
1. What difference does it make how many coaches flamed out? Bob Kraft identified a candidate to run his orginization based on many factors but the main one being the economic philosophy it would take to run a football operation in the salary cap era. Kraft traded valuable draft capital to acquire the person he felt could lead the orginization to success. That's not luck that is smart business. Luck is hiring a coach with no track record and he turns out to be Bill Belichick. 2. You could say that the reason he was still on the board was the ineptitude of the other teams that reportedly put 1st and 3rd round grades on Brady and never took him. Based on his combine and pro day the pats probably took him a round later than they should have. I would argue that what you call luck is the ineptitude of many other teams. 3. This is what I'll say about #3... www.bostonsportsonline.com/weak-division/4. It's no difference to when cold weather teams go to Miami late in the season. Good teams are able to deal with all conditions hot, cold, wet, indoors etc... Here's my suggestion to other teams, get homefield advantage and you won't have to worry about these perceived disadvantages. I find it it hard as some other posters have pointed out to assign luck as a reason for their success. All the hard work that gets put in week in and week out by the staff and players preparing diligently for all sceanrios and details that might arise in a game IMO is the major reason for their success with a little luck sprinkled in. I loved the last paragraph of that link: ========== So here’s your quick rebuttal. Since 2001, the Patriots are just as good in their division as out of it – they’re dominant in both. They’re the only team with a winning record against playoff teams – and they’re over .600. It’s not that the rest of the AFC East isn’t good, it’s that the Patriots are the most dominant team in NFL history. It’s not that they have the easiest route, it’s that they make that route look easy. And you’ll never hear them complain about it, like Earl Thomas. ========== So much for "everybody knows the AFC East is a weak division" and for anyone ignorant enough to repeat that crap. (You know who you are). Lmao. www.google.com/amp/s/www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2017/8/24/16195240/pats-success-has-been-helped-by-weak-divisionHere’s another one... with numbers Sheldon, more numbers for you... The AFC East (2002-2013) - The weakest division in the NFL during the BB Era? Much has been made during the Patriots' tremendous run since BB took over the reigns over how weak the AFC East has been over that time. It is thought by many detractors of the Patriots that they've run up big records against these weak opponents, and that has propelled them into the playoffs year after year. But is it true? Is it really the case that the AFC East has been the NFL's weakest division? I will only use the years since the NFL went to the 8-division format, which means looking at 2002-2013. Of course this leaves out one of the Pats' Super Bowl seasons, but oh well. It's just easier this way. First, I looked at each division's overall win total over this 12-year period: (EDIT: The first number here (401, 397, 395, etc) are the raw win totals. I forgot to mention that) 1. AFCE - 401 (.522) 2. NFCE - 397 (.517) 3. NFCS - 395 (.514) 4. AFCS - 393 (.512) 5. AFCN - 390 (.508) 6. AFCW - 375 (.488) 7. NFCN - 368 (.479) 8. NFCW - 347 (.452) Obviously, the AFC East's impressive top ranking is colored by the Patriots' success. So here's the division winning percentages with NE out of the mixture (i.e., the AFCE just has NYJ, Mia, and Buf). 1. NFCE - .517 2. NFCS - .514 3. AFCS - .512 4. AFCN - .508 5. AFCW - .488 6. NFCN - .479 7. NFCW - .452 8. AFCE - .441 But these numbers are colored by New England hammering AFCE opponents. So let's just go with each division's out-of-division games, with New England taken out of the mix. 1. NFCE - .527 2. NFCS - .523 3. AFCS - .519 4. AFCN - .513 5. AFCW - .481 6. NFCN - .467 7. AFCE - .464 8. NFCW - .423 *Note: AFCE - .535 (with NE) So yes, the AFC East has been one of the weaker divisions in the NFL during this time frame, which has undoubtedly benefitted the Patriots.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 8, 2017 9:39:12 GMT -5
Cory's Corner: Does the AFC East hurt the Patriots' legacy? By Cory Jennerjohn on May 30, 2017
I think that Tom Brady is an all-timer. He has beaten the odds by being a skinny sixth round pick that barely displayed any measurables at the NFL Combine to being one of the best leaders in sports.
But I have a hard time saying that the Patriots are one of the best franchises ever. And the reason lies within the soft underbelly of the AFC East. The Patriots’ feasting on that division each year is like putting Alabama in the Mid-American Conference.
In the last four years, a team not named the Patriots earned a playoff berth just once — and that was last year’s Dolphins. In that same span, the Patriots have gone 50-14 and have claimed four division titles.
Now, there are other weak divisions. The NFC North comes to mind. But even that division saw the Vikings and two Lions’ teams advance to the playoffs in the last four years. And conversely, the Packers’ cumulative record in that span is 40-23-1. Green Bay won a division title with a .531 winning percentage. The lowest winning percentage the Patriots won the AFC East in the Tom Brady era has been .625.
The Dolphins, Jets and Bills literally have not been able to get out of their own way to the point that the AFC East has turned into the NBA regular season. It’s not even worth paying attention to because even with adversity brought on by Deflategate. The Patriots showed how superior they are by maintaining a division lead with backup quarterbacks.
This doesn’t diminish Brady’s legacy as a champion and leader. How he’s been able to hurl fastballs in the Foxboro winters has been amazing. However, it does speak volumes about the Patriots as a team. Does this team win that much in the AFC North? No way. How about the NFC East? Not a chance. New England would be happy with splits against Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Dallas, New York and Washington.
The reason why this is interesting is because the regular season affects the playoffs. The Patriots have built a postseason fortress at Gillette Stadium by going 9-1 dating all the way back to 2010. That’s absurd. And the reason they are getting all those home games is because they get six division games against teams that never had a chance to begin with.
The last AFC Championship Game the Patriots played away from Massachusetts was in 2015. The swarming Denver defense was too much. That was no coincidence because the Patriots also lost at Denver in 2013. The Patriots are 6-1 in home AFC Championship Games, proving that the regular season does matter and the mundane late September laughers make a difference.
The AFC East has been one of the oddest divisions in all of pro sports because it has one of the best quarterbacks on a team that continues to get better. That is juxtaposed against a division that continues to search for an elite quarterback. The Jets are guessing at this point as they brought in a 37-year-old Cleveland Browns retread, the Dolphins are still waiting for Ryan Tannehill to return the investment of an eighth overall pick in 2012 and the Bills appear ready to hit the reset button even though Tyrod Taylor finally has ample weapons this year.
It’s hard enough to beat middling teams like the Chargers with those quarterbacks. When you have to face Brady twice a year, forget it. The Patriots have won that sorry division 13 of the last 14 years and easy money says they’ll make it 14 of 15.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 8, 2017 9:51:10 GMT -5
Sheldon, This deserves to be posted again....
There are 11 teams that have had 6 or more coaches since 2000 and 3 of those teams are in the AFC East... more than any other division. My gosh, if that doesn't tell you something then you are King of the Homers!
Twist it, spin it, massage it anyway you want... for every person, every article that you find saying differently, there are more that support the claim that the AFC East is one of the weakest divisions in football for the past 17-18 years. So you can take all your snide remarks to me and stick them where the sun don’t shine... since this is the Internet I can say it... in your big ass behind!
Take that plate of L’s and eat em all day long!!
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nyc
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
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Post by nyc on Dec 8, 2017 9:58:15 GMT -5
Underlying this discussion is a cultural divide: those that believe in luck (chance ) as a strong determinant of success and those that believe human factors that determine success.
I believe we each make the most of our chances or we don't. There's been times I've ignored opportunities in life and there's been times I've recognized opportunities, taken advantage of them and benefited greatly from them.
Nonetheless, I am not a pure rugged individualist. I've seen circumstances where it would be difficult for anyone to overcome them. For example, a friend of mine pursued a career in construction, got married early and had several kids early. He also got injured in his early thirties and was unable to work at the same capacity as earlier. At the same time he had several kids to take care of and had no time or money to retrain in a less physically demanding job. He was stuck, having made choices earlier in life that locked him into a lifestyle that was hard to change quickly. Unfortunately, some people are born into very difficult situations where their opportunities are also very limited. Of course, this has little to do with the AFC East, cold weather or a coach with a chip on his shoulder but it has to do with life. We all have to do the best we can with what we're given.
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 8, 2017 10:24:31 GMT -5
Underlying this discussion is a cultural divide: those that believe in luck (chance ) as a strong determinant of success and those that believe human factors that determine success. I believe we each make the most of our chances or we don't. There's been times I've ignored opportunities in life and there's been times I've recognized opportunities, taken advantage of them and benefited greatly from them. Nonetheless, I am not a pure rugged individualist. I've seen circumstances where it would be difficult for anyone to overcome them. For example, a friend of mine pursued a career in construction, got married early and had several kids early. He also got injured in his early thirties and was unable to work at the same capacity as earlier. At the same time he had several kids to take care of and had no time or money to retrain in a less physically demanding job. He was stuck, having made choices earlier in life that locked him into a lifestyle that was hard to change quickly. Unfortunately, some people are born into very difficult situations where their opportunities are also very limited. Of course, this has little to do with the AFC East, cold weather or a coach with a chip on his shoulder but it has to do with life. We all have to do the best we can with what we're given. Good post. "When you walk up to opportunities door, don't knock it... kick that bitch in, smile and introduce yourself.“ The Rock “Life isn’t about waiting the storm to pass. It’s about dancing in the mother f’ing rain.” Greg Plitt
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Post by muzwell on Dec 8, 2017 10:31:58 GMT -5
I loved the last paragraph of that link: ========== So here’s your quick rebuttal. Since 2001, the Patriots are just as good in their division as out of it – they’re dominant in both. They’re the only team with a winning record against playoff teams – and they’re over .600. It’s not that the rest of the AFC East isn’t good, it’s that the Patriots are the most dominant team in NFL history. It’s not that they have the easiest route, it’s that they make that route look easy. And you’ll never hear them complain about it, like Earl Thomas. ========== So much for "everybody knows the AFC East is a weak division" and for anyone ignorant enough to repeat that crap. (You know who you are). Lmao. www.google.com/amp/s/www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2017/8/24/16195240/pats-success-has-been-helped-by-weak-divisionHere’s another one... with numbers Sheldon, more numbers for you... The AFC East (2002-2013) - The weakest division in the NFL during the BB Era? Much has been made during the Patriots' tremendous run since BB took over the reigns over how weak the AFC East has been over that time. It is thought by many detractors of the Patriots that they've run up big records against these weak opponents, and that has propelled them into the playoffs year after year. But is it true? Is it really the case that the AFC East has been the NFL's weakest division? I will only use the years since the NFL went to the 8-division format, which means looking at 2002-2013. Of course this leaves out one of the Pats' Super Bowl seasons, but oh well. It's just easier this way. First, I looked at each division's overall win total over this 12-year period: (EDIT: The first number here (401, 397, 395, etc) are the raw win totals. I forgot to mention that) 1. AFCE - 401 (.522) 2. NFCE - 397 (.517) 3. NFCS - 395 (.514) 4. AFCS - 393 (.512) 5. AFCN - 390 (.508) 6. AFCW - 375 (.488) 7. NFCN - 368 (.479) 8. NFCW - 347 (.452) Obviously, the AFC East's impressive top ranking is colored by the Patriots' success. So here's the division winning percentages with NE out of the mixture (i.e., the AFCE just has NYJ, Mia, and Buf). 1. NFCE - .517 2. NFCS - .514 3. AFCS - .512 4. AFCN - .508 5. AFCW - .488 6. NFCN - .479 7. NFCW - .452 8. AFCE - .441 But these numbers are colored by New England hammering AFCE opponents. So let's just go with each division's out-of-division games, with New England taken out of the mix. 1. NFCE - .527 2. NFCS - .523 3. AFCS - .519 4. AFCN - .513 5. AFCW - .481 6. NFCN - .467 7. AFCE - .464 8. NFCW - .423 *Note: AFCE - .535 (with NE) So yes, the AFC East has been one of the weaker divisions in the NFL during this time frame, which has undoubtedly benefitted the Patriots. Grest idea, let's conveniently remove the best team in the division, but only from the AFCE, then compare it to alk the other divisions. On what planet does that make sense? Planet Hater, I suppose. It's completely bogus to remove the first place team, in this case the Patriots, from this analysis...unless you remove the first place team from every division. There's no division in football that consistently has even two above average teams, year in and year out. The Pats have been a constant, the Steelers have been mostly constant with a few down years, the Colts had a nice run. That's pretty much it. The other three teams in the AFCE are about on par with the vast majority of the NFL. Up, down, up, down. Parityville.
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Post by jri37 on Dec 8, 2017 11:14:11 GMT -5
Lmao. www.google.com/amp/s/www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2017/8/24/16195240/pats-success-has-been-helped-by-weak-divisionHere’s another one... with numbers Sheldon, more numbers for you... The AFC East (2002-2013) - The weakest division in the NFL during the BB Era? Much has been made during the Patriots' tremendous run since BB took over the reigns over how weak the AFC East has been over that time. It is thought by many detractors of the Patriots that they've run up big records against these weak opponents, and that has propelled them into the playoffs year after year. But is it true? Is it really the case that the AFC East has been the NFL's weakest division? I will only use the years since the NFL went to the 8-division format, which means looking at 2002-2013. Of course this leaves out one of the Pats' Super Bowl seasons, but oh well. It's just easier this way. First, I looked at each division's overall win total over this 12-year period: (EDIT: The first number here (401, 397, 395, etc) are the raw win totals. I forgot to mention that) 1. AFCE - 401 (.522) 2. NFCE - 397 (.517) 3. NFCS - 395 (.514) 4. AFCS - 393 (.512) 5. AFCN - 390 (.508) 6. AFCW - 375 (.488) 7. NFCN - 368 (.479) 8. NFCW - 347 (.452) Obviously, the AFC East's impressive top ranking is colored by the Patriots' success. So here's the division winning percentages with NE out of the mixture (i.e., the AFCE just has NYJ, Mia, and Buf). 1. NFCE - .517 2. NFCS - .514 3. AFCS - .512 4. AFCN - .508 5. AFCW - .488 6. NFCN - .479 7. NFCW - .452 8. AFCE - .441 But these numbers are colored by New England hammering AFCE opponents. So let's just go with each division's out-of-division games, with New England taken out of the mix. 1. NFCE - .527 2. NFCS - .523 3. AFCS - .519 4. AFCN - .513 5. AFCW - .481 6. NFCN - .467 7. AFCE - .464 8. NFCW - .423 *Note: AFCE - .535 (with NE) So yes, the AFC East has been one of the weaker divisions in the NFL during this time frame, which has undoubtedly benefitted the Patriots. Grest idea, let's conveniently remove the best team in the division, but only from the AFCE, then compare it to alk the other divisions. On what planet does that make sense? Planet Hater, I suppose. It's completely bogus to remove the first place team, in this case the Patriots, from this analysis...unless you remove the first place team from every division. There's no division in football that consistently has even two above average teams, year in and year out. The Pats have been a constant, the Steelers have been mostly constant with a few down years, the Colts had a nice run. That's pretty much it. The other three teams in the AFCE are about on par with the vast majority of the NFL. Up, down, up, down. Parityville. That's why i think this is as good a breakdown that I've found to address the issue... www.bostonsportsonline.com/weak-division/
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Post by Shelly on Dec 8, 2017 11:53:17 GMT -5
I loved the last paragraph of that link: ========== So here’s your quick rebuttal. Since 2001, the Patriots are just as good in their division as out of it – they’re dominant in both. They’re the only team with a winning record against playoff teams – and they’re over .600. It’s not that the rest of the AFC East isn’t good, it’s that the Patriots are the most dominant team in NFL history. It’s not that they have the easiest route, it’s that they make that route look easy. And you’ll never hear them complain about it, like Earl Thomas. ========== So much for "everybody knows the AFC East is a weak division" and for anyone ignorant enough to repeat that crap. (You know who you are). Lmao. www.google.com/amp/s/www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2017/8/24/16195240/pats-success-has-been-helped-by-weak-divisionHere’s another one... with numbers Sheldon, more numbers for you... The AFC East (2002-2013) - The weakest division in the NFL during the BB Era? Much has been made during the Patriots' tremendous run since BB took over the reigns over how weak the AFC East has been over that time. It is thought by many detractors of the Patriots that they've run up big records against these weak opponents, and that has propelled them into the playoffs year after year. But is it true? Is it really the case that the AFC East has been the NFL's weakest division? I will only use the years since the NFL went to the 8-division format, which means looking at 2002-2013. Of course this leaves out one of the Pats' Super Bowl seasons, but oh well. It's just easier this way. First, I looked at each division's overall win total over this 12-year period: (EDIT: The first number here (401, 397, 395, etc) are the raw win totals. I forgot to mention that) 1. AFCE - 401 (.522) 2. NFCE - 397 (.517) 3. NFCS - 395 (.514) 4. AFCS - 393 (.512) 5. AFCN - 390 (.508) 6. AFCW - 375 (.488) 7. NFCN - 368 (.479) 8. NFCW - 347 (.452) Obviously, the AFC East's impressive top ranking is colored by the Patriots' success. So here's the division winning percentages with NE out of the mixture (i.e., the AFCE just has NYJ, Mia, and Buf). 1. NFCE - .517 2. NFCS - .514 3. AFCS - .512 4. AFCN - .508 5. AFCW - .488 6. NFCN - .479 7. NFCW - .452 8. AFCE - .441 But these numbers are colored by New England hammering AFCE opponents. So let's just go with each division's out-of-division games, with New England taken out of the mix. 1. NFCE - .527 2. NFCS - .523 3. AFCS - .519 4. AFCN - .513 5. AFCW - .481 6. NFCN - .467 7. AFCE - .464 8. NFCW - .423 *Note: AFCE - .535 (with NE) So yes, the AFC East has been one of the weaker divisions in the NFL during this time frame, which has undoubtedly benefitted the Patriots. Those number are still not good as they are weighted against the AFC East. Here is why. All the others include the division winner's records for the years they won their divisions. In order to be fair you need to remove those as well. so your numbers don't prove anything. In fact my guess is that if you did that the AFC East would be in the top half. Notice that I said guess. Waiting......
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 8, 2017 12:19:40 GMT -5
I like this comment... written in December 2014 from the above article. Find the holes, Sheldon because you sure haven’t provided shit to back up your point... do you actually have a point other than trying to argue with everything I say? So sit back in the ole rocker and read along...
In the last 12 years the three teams in the Pats division have won 10 games or more: Buffalo - 0 times, no playoff appearances NY JEts - 4 times, 6-6 in four playoff appearances Miami - 2 times, 0-1 in one playoff appearance You realize that these are three of the WORST teams in the league the last 12 years. Only the Jets, who have been a laughing stock, have even competed, albeit 4 of their wins came with Mark Sanchez at QB? The teams that have won 10 or more games 2x or less the last 12 years? (Cleveland-1, Detroit-2, Houston -2, Oakland-0, Stl-1, Tampa-2, Washington-2). of that group, only Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland and Tampa failed to win a playoff game like buffalo and Miami. So basically you are talking about two of the six least successful teams the last 12 years are in the AFC East. And the other is the Jets. the Pats are the best organization in the NFL but they have been challenged only one or two years to win their division and won fewer than four division games only twice. The other three franchises are at best bad and more likely amongst the worst run in the sport. Finally, let's look at starting QBs. The only thing that matters these days is the quality of the QB. Pats - Brady, Matt Cassell (1 year) Buffalo - EJ Manual, Ryan Fitzpatrick, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Drew Bledsoe NYJEts - geno Smith, Mark Sanchez, Brett Favre (one year), Vinnie Testaverde (one year), Chad Pennington Miami - Ryan Tannehill, Matt Moore (one year), chad henne, trent Green (1 year), chad pennington (one year), Cleo Lemon (1 year), Gus Frerotte (1 year), Joey Harrington (1 year), AJ Feeley...holy crap that is incredible Its really hard to take any of these quarterbacks seriously. Favre was toast, Pennington was the best of this group by a long shot and couldn't throw the ball thirty yards down the field. Cassell might be the fourth best quarterback in the division the last 12 years. maybe Tannehill will be? in the last 12 years, the Pats won the division 11 times, Miami once (Brady was hurt). Only four wild cards teams have come out of the division during that stretch, the Jets in 2004, 2006, 2009 and 2010. In those seasons, the Jets were only within one game of the Pats ONE TIME, meaning the Pats have only had one season where their division title was ever really at risk in the last weeks of the season. the other five divisions have been much more competitive and deep AFC North - 3 different division winners at least 3x each, 9 wild card berths with 3 teams 3 times each AFC South - 3 different division winners 2x or more each, 6 wild card berths from three different teams AFC West - 3 different division winners 2x each or more, 5 wild card berths from 3 different teams NFC East - all four teams won division, three of which won 3x or more; 8 WCard berths, all four teams did it 2x NFC North - 3 different division winners at least 2x each; 6 wild card berths with 3 teams doing it 2x apiece NFC South - all four teams won division at least 2x each; 5 wild card bids by 3 different teams NFC West - all four teams won division with three winning it 2x or more apiece; 5 WC berths from all four teams The AFC East is by far the least competitive and worst division in football the last twelve years when it comes to fielding competitive teams. The Jets are basically an average NFL team and Buffalo and Maimi are in the bottom 20% of teams in the NFL. This helps the Pats primarily because they rarely have to play meaningful games in decemeber, almost never have to worry about winning the division and almost always have at least one home game every year. Yes they are great, but they have a huge advantage playing with NYJ, Miami and Buffalo
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