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Post by texaspat on May 5, 2019 13:51:27 GMT -5
Most of us seem to agree that the Patriots had a good draft. But, could it have been better? Were there better choices at each selection spot that the Patriots' passed on? Here's a look at the 32nd overall pick. I have listed 4 other possibilities as alternatives to the N'Keal Harry selection. QUERY: Did the Patriots take the right player? 1.) #32 Overall: WR N'Keal Harry: Its a violation of the Shiny Hood Ornament rule to ever select a WR in the first round: coldhardfootballfacts.com/free-articles/patriots-blunder-drafting-shiny-hood-ornament-wrThough I'm a advocate of this train of thought, in this particular case, I give the Patriots a pass. They had a dire need at WR. With the retirement of Gronk, this need was exacerbated. The pick was #32 overall...not a top 25 selection. Finally, I'm of the opinion that Harry was the best available WR in this draft class. That said, who might have been a better choice for the Patriots: a.) QB Drew Lock, Missouri: This guy has the potential to be a legitimate heir apparent to Brady. He may be the next Patrick Mahomes. b.) OL Greg Little, Mississippi: potential to grow into a solid LT. But, questions about his work ethic and drive to succeed pushed him out of the first round. c.) OL: Dalton Risner, Kansas State: versatile OL. Great work ethic...but probably not LT material. d.) Kaleb McGary, Washington: The Patriots like tall OTs, and had McGary in for a pre-draft visit. But, he's been more of a RT than a LT. Again, can the Patriots count on a timely and full recovery from his Achilles injury. SUMMARY: The Patriots have to be concerned about the LT position. The 2019 season could be riding on the Achilles heel of Isaiah Wynn. As much as the Pat's needed a WR, help at OT might be the greater need. Another need was at QB. Tom Brady can't go on forever. Lock might have been the guy to eventually replace him. But, the bottom line is that there was no LT prospect worth taking at #32. As for Lock, taking him when Brady has a dire need for more weapons might be too great a risk. Though I love improving the OL, none of the remaining OTs appear to be good LT candidates. I like Drew Lock much better than Jarrett Stidham, but Lock wouldn't be an immediate contributor. For these reasons, the Harry choice appears to have been the best available to New England. |
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Post by thejuice on May 5, 2019 14:45:41 GMT -5
Based on the 5 names you've listed here, 100% they made the right choice.
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Post by fisher on May 5, 2019 15:02:19 GMT -5
Previous drafts would allow for this second guessing. Not this year...BB had his list and kept to.it
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Post by wazzu on May 5, 2019 15:21:08 GMT -5
If Belichick thought he was the right pick, I’ll go with that. I thought Lock sucked. I think Stidham might be a better pro than Lock. The UW LT McGary was off the board at 32. Little looked really lazy at times. Risner is ok, but the 2 O-Lineman we took in 3rd/4th Rnds could end up being better than Risner. Harry has huge upside. I’ll go with Belichick’s opinion on all football related issues.
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Post by patriotsnumero1fan on May 5, 2019 15:23:07 GMT -5
I was surprised by the pick but i hope it works out. 4.53 is not slow. Hope he can be a player here. Some publications had him as the top wideout over a guy like AJ Brown.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 15:31:27 GMT -5
That stuff was said by Bill Walsh many, many years ago. They stole his quotes. (Or read his book), I was thinking about this rule too, the problem today, is the Salary Cap. When Walsh was Coaching, you could keep a team together for a long time, today you cant. You almost have to take the best available, at the position of need.
The way Receivers Salaries are sky rocketing, a 5 year 1st Round WR is almost good value, if they hit. Especially at 32. I use to think this way too, but with the Salary Cap, I think this Philosophy is off the table now.
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Post by tswfan on May 5, 2019 16:37:42 GMT -5
Harry will catch everything in his zip code!
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Post by Wozzy on May 5, 2019 17:42:48 GMT -5
Harry is a tightend in a WR's body... we filled a need in an unconventional way.
We got the best WR on the board because everyone else drafted for defense or elsewhere, you take the best player available there, and they did...
Also Stidham is better than Lock...
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Post by bubba on May 5, 2019 17:59:01 GMT -5
It’s too late to change, isn’t it
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Post by csylvia79 on May 5, 2019 18:01:35 GMT -5
Harry is a tightend in a WR's body... we filled a need in an unconventional way. We got the best WR on the board because everyone else drafted for defense or elsewhere, you take the best player available there, and they did... Also Stidham is better than Lock... Do you think they are going to have him in the H back role at times like how they use Hernandez? |
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Post by thehub on May 5, 2019 18:01:54 GMT -5
Harry is a tightend in a WR's body... we filled a need in an unconventional way. We got the best WR on the board because everyone else drafted for defense or elsewhere, you take the best player available there, and they did... Also Stidham is better than Lock... Are you implying we have the next guy on the roster? |
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Post by thehub on May 5, 2019 18:03:45 GMT -5
Harry is a tightend in a WR's body... we filled a need in an unconventional way. We got the best WR on the board because everyone else drafted for defense or elsewhere, you take the best player available there, and they did... Also Stidham is better than Lock... Interstate thought / observation. Perhaps that’s why they did not not grab a TE. Who was the pick in the 3rd going to be when we picked the RB. I am sure they grabbed him based on value at that spot. |
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Post by Wozzy on May 5, 2019 18:23:22 GMT -5
Do you think they are going to have him in the H back role at times like how they use Hernandez? Maybe halfback like Cordarrelle, hopefully with our new depth at RB they won't have to do it necessity, but could do it as a trick play. |
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Post by Wozzy on May 5, 2019 18:41:05 GMT -5
Are you implying we have the next guy on the roster? You mean QB? Stidham has shown it in college, more than other QB prospects drafted much higher. But he's a rookie like any other, nothing will be handed to him. Much like we got great value at WR and RB, we got good value at QB as well. We got a very good prospect at a very good point in the draft, if Stidham came out after his sophomore year he could have gone much higher, especially in a weak QB class after the big 3 (Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes). His team last year lost their best WR to an ACL tear and brought five new starters on the O-Line, and he was only a junior in the SEC, he's 22. In a great system he could thrive, his sophomore year is a better representation of his game. He needs to watch and learn. |
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Post by ATJ on May 5, 2019 19:42:53 GMT -5
I know it’s fun to second guess and what the hell else are we going to do at this point anyway?
In truth I don’t think you can pose this question without asking about the choices the Pats made through at least the third round and perhaps into the fourth. Every decision made has consequences and this decision is no different.
I’m fine with the first round and the draft as a whole. I voted accordingly.
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Post by portfolio1 on May 5, 2019 21:10:04 GMT -5
That stuff was said by Bill Walsh many, many years ago. They stole his quotes. (Or read his book), I was thinking about this rule too, the problem today, is the Salary Cap. When Walsh was Coaching, you could keep a team together for a long time, today you cant. You almost have to take the best available, at the position of need. The way Receivers Salaries are sky rocketing, a 5 year 1st Round WR is almost good value, if they hit. Especially at 32. I use to think this way too, but with the Salary Cap, I think this Philosophy is off the table now. I go with Harry too but the Pats system is not kind to WRs and so even though you can get 5 years out of a 1st rounder you may lose 2 just for them to "get it". |
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on May 6, 2019 9:41:22 GMT -5
Harry is a tightend in a WR's body... we filled a need in an unconventional way. We got the best WR on the board because everyone else drafted for defense or elsewhere, you take the best player available there, and they did... Also Stidham is better than Lock... Do you think they are going to have him in the H back role at times like how they use Hernandez? While McD is creative, and will find a way to get the ball into his hands in multiple ways/alignments, he's a WR... and not someone I'd anticipate being used very often as h-back. He's also 20 pounds lighter than AH was at the same stage, so he's not really built for life near the tackle box. |
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Post by texaspat on May 6, 2019 10:00:33 GMT -5
Do you think they are going to have him in the H back role at times like how they use Hernandez? While McD is creative, and will find a way to get the ball into his hands in multiple ways/alignments, he's a WR... and not someone I'd anticipate being used very often as h-back. He's also 20 pounds lighter than AH was at the same stage, so he's not really built for life near the tackle box. As I've stated on many occasions, I'm not a fan of taking a WR in the first round of a draft. But, considering what was left at the first 31 picks were made, I'll sign off on the Harry selection. I felt that he was the best available WR in this draft class...and the Patriots had a dire need at the position. I liked the fact that he's a physical receiver who can get the contested passes, is a very good and willing blocker, and the fact that he can return punts. Let's hope he plays to expectations.
The whining over the TE position needs to stop. I don't think its as bad as people are making it out to be. The Patriots seem to have a pretty good group between Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Matt LaCosse, Izzo, and this undrafted free agent, Andrew Beck. As we have discussed previously, Beck looks like he's capable in the H-back role. I'm not saying that he's as talented as Aaron Hernandez was, but the potential is there.
Here's a breakdown of all the Patriot's picks, which I pretty much agree with...other than a "C" for Joejuan Williams, and what appears to be an "F" for the selection of a punter in Round 5: NFL Draft Individual Grades:
32. N'Keal Harry, WR, Arizona State A- Grade
I mocked Parris Campbell to the Patriots for weeks, but it ended up being another receiver. N'Keal Harry makes just as much sense as Campbell, so I like this pick. Harry was highly productive at Arizona State, but had some speed concerns. He proved his detractors wrong at the combine, elevating himself into the first round. He should be a terrific downfield weapon in the final years of Tom Brady's career.
45. Joejuan Williams, CB, Vanderbilt C Grade
I don't understand why the Patriots traded up for Juejuan Williams. I thought there was a good chance they could obtain him or someone comparable at the end of the second frame, which is where I had him pegged. I don't think Williams is ready to start right away, as he's just a developmental, athletic player with great size at this point. The Patriots need a cornerback for the future, so it makes sense to take Williams, but I don't believe that trading up for him was necessary.
77. Chase Winovich, DE/OLB, Michigan A Grade
Chase Winovich is the exact opposite of Rashan Gary. While Gary, the 12th-overall pick, has extreme athleticism, he didn't try very hard at Michigan and failed to live up to expectations. Chase Winovich isn't the same sort of athlete - though he tested better than expected - but he works hard and has a motor that doesn't quit. He was more productive than Gary. He's a Patriots type of player, and he should've been drafted a round earlier than this. New England made an outstanding selection with Winovich.
87. Damien Harris, RB, Alabama A+ Grade
This is one of the top picks of the third round. The Patriots needed to find a running back to play alongside Sony Michel and James White, as giving the ball to the plodding Rex Burkhead is always a wasted down. Harris is not only a talented runner, but also a stellar pass protector. He was also a team captain at Alabama, so I can't say I'm surprised that New England made this selection.
101. Yodny Cajuste, OT, West Virginia B Grade
Yodny Cajuste doesn't have an extensive history with football because he grew up as a basketball player. He's far from fully developed, but has the upside to eventually become a starter in the NFL. He has a low floor as well, however. That said, this is the right range for Cajuste, so this is a fine pick. 118. Hjalte Froholdt, G, Arkansas B+ Grade
I had Hjalte Froholdt being chosen around this range, so this pick makes sense for the Patriots. Froholdt is an athletic guard, but must develop some strength. The upside is definitely there though, and it wouldn't surprise me if he emerged as a starter in the near future.
133. Jarrett Stidham, QB, Auburn B Grade
I wasn't a fan of Jarrett Stidham, but that's when I thought he would be chosen in the third round. I think the fourth frame makes sense for Stidham. He has a great arm and upside, and he also has high character traits. However, he has zero pocket awareness, so he's a major project. It'll be interesting to see what Bill Belichick and Josh McDaniels do with him.
Read more: walterfootball.com/offseason2019ne.php#ixzz5n9tTU89W
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ne1013
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Post by ne1013 on May 6, 2019 10:06:37 GMT -5
Harry was a very good choice because he is a dedicated route runner with good hands inside and outside of body w/decent verticle.. The Pats are a dedicated pattern run Team. Perfect fit for the likes of Brady. Could we use a break away speed WR, sure. But none within our draft reach or worth the $$. Fairly conservative but wise org. Anything goes till deadlnes.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on May 6, 2019 10:33:57 GMT -5
While McD is creative, and will find a way to get the ball into his hands in multiple ways/alignments, he's a WR... and not someone I'd anticipate being used very often as h-back. He's also 20 pounds lighter than AH was at the same stage, so he's not really built for life near the tackle box. As I've stated on many occasions, I'm not a fan of taking a WR in the first round of a draft. But, considering what was left at the first 31 picks were made, I'll sign off on the Harry selection. I felt that he was the best available WR in this draft class...and the Patriots had a dire need at the position. I liked the fact that he's a physical receiver who can get the contested passes, is a very good and willing blocker, and the fact that he can return punts. Let's hope he plays to expectations.
The whining over the TE position needs to stop. I don't think its as bad as people are making it out to be. The Patriots seem to have a pretty good group between Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Matt LaCosse, Izzo, and this undrafted free agent, Andrew Beck. As we have discussed previously, Beck looks like he's capable in the H-back role. I'm not saying that he's as talented as Aaron Hernandez was, but the potential is there.
Here's a breakdown of all the Patriot's picks, which I pretty much agree with...other than a "C" for Joejuan Williams, and what appears to be an "F" for the selection of a punter in Round 5: NFL Draft Individual Grades:
32. N'Keal Harry, WR, Arizona State A- Grade
I mocked Parris Campbell to the Patriots for weeks, but it ended up being another receiver. N'Keal Harry makes just as much sense as Campbell, so I like this pick. Harry was highly productive at Arizona State, but had some speed concerns. He proved his detractors wrong at the combine, elevating himself into the first round. He should be a terrific downfield weapon in the final years of Tom Brady's career.
45. Joejuan Williams, CB, Vanderbilt C Grade
I don't understand why the Patriots traded up for Juejuan Williams. I thought there was a good chance they could obtain him or someone comparable at the end of the second frame, which is where I had him pegged. I don't think Williams is ready to start right away, as he's just a developmental, athletic player with great size at this point. The Patriots need a cornerback for the future, so it makes sense to take Williams, but I don't believe that trading up for him was necessary.
77. Chase Winovich, DE/OLB, Michigan A Grade
Chase Winovich is the exact opposite of Rashan Gary. While Gary, the 12th-overall pick, has extreme athleticism, he didn't try very hard at Michigan and failed to live up to expectations. Chase Winovich isn't the same sort of athlete - though he tested better than expected - but he works hard and has a motor that doesn't quit. He was more productive than Gary. He's a Patriots type of player, and he should've been drafted a round earlier than this. New England made an outstanding selection with Winovich.
87. Damien Harris, RB, Alabama A+ Grade
This is one of the top picks of the third round. The Patriots needed to find a running back to play alongside Sony Michel and James White, as giving the ball to the plodding Rex Burkhead is always a wasted down. Harris is not only a talented runner, but also a stellar pass protector. He was also a team captain at Alabama, so I can't say I'm surprised that New England made this selection.
101. Yodny Cajuste, OT, West Virginia B Grade
Yodny Cajuste doesn't have an extensive history with football because he grew up as a basketball player. He's far from fully developed, but has the upside to eventually become a starter in the NFL. He has a low floor as well, however. That said, this is the right range for Cajuste, so this is a fine pick.
Read more: walterfootball.com/offseason2019ne.php#ixzz5n9oAKEQY
I'm not opposed to a WR in Rd 1, though I think taking one there would require the player to have some sort of high level trait/skill. With Harry, I think that's his combo of size and athleticism... I mean, that's a big boy that can move... and he was very productive, so it's translated to the field/tape. I wanted Parris Campbell, but I don't hate the Harry pick, as not much separated him from Campbell, Samuel and Brown on my board, and he could be that true Alpha X that The GOAT has seldom had in NE. |
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Post by mthurl on May 6, 2019 16:54:42 GMT -5
Seeing as how I really liked Deebo Samuel and thought he was the guy we were going to select in the first round, I kind of have to stay true and select him. It doesn't mean I don't like Harry, I do, it's just that I'm staying true to who I really liked, and who I thought would fit the offense to a T. I obviously was wrong.
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Post by oklahomapatriot on May 6, 2019 18:16:06 GMT -5
fk yes he was. we needed a big WR
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Post by thehub on Apr 21, 2022 21:58:24 GMT -5
Seeing as how I really liked Deebo Samuel and thought he was the guy we were going to select in the first round, I kind of have to stay true and select him. It doesn't mean I don't like Harry, I do, it's just that I'm staying true to who I really liked, and who I thought would fit the offense to a T. I obviously was wrong. You were not wrong! |
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 21, 2022 23:52:08 GMT -5
Seeing as how I really liked Deebo Samuel and thought he was the guy we were going to select in the first round, I kind of have to stay true and select him. It doesn't mean I don't like Harry, I do, it's just that I'm staying true to who I really liked, and who I thought would fit the offense to a T. I obviously was wrong. You were not wrong! Since you brought this up, I thought it would be interesting to read through the early draft thread reactions to the N'keal Harry pick. The reactions started getting posted on page 116 of the draft thread that year. patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/5825/2019-patriots-draft-thread?page=116 |
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 22, 2022 5:05:21 GMT -5
I think my top three were Parris Cambell, Deebo and AJ Brown... and below were my thoughts on him after the pick. "Haven't been the biggest Harry guy in the world, and had him as more of a Rd 2 player, but watched some last minute tape today to finalize my board and moved him into the #4 WR spot, over one of my favorites, JJAW. And while there were other WR's that I liked more, thus some disappointment, I don't hate the pick. If he can come in and be that alpha #1 X that they haven't often had, then the pick is more than worth it. Big-time combo of size, strength and athleticism, and I look forward to seeing what McD can do with him. I'm just glad they addressed the position early... and that precedent of not drafting WR's in Rd 1 has ended for BB, haha. Bring on Day 2!" |
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