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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 6:29:16 GMT -5
Apparently there are more than a few here who wanted Deebo and had Harry as a 2nd round pick or taken deeper in the WR selections than he was.
Anyhow, this is now water under the bridge. Harry is a bust and it's time to move on from him. Cut him if you can't trade him and we'll still save some money on the cap this year.
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Post by CWTB on Apr 22, 2022 7:35:22 GMT -5
Mike Lombardi said he was excellent too. He said if you pick DK Metcalf over Harry your a idiot. So the point is there is no point. Mistakes and evaluations are different. Even from the so-called professionals. Who doesn't make mistakes? Water Under the Bridge is Correct response, by Lifer.
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Post by bostonts on Apr 22, 2022 9:04:22 GMT -5
Mike Lombardi said he was excellent too. He said if you pick DK Metcalf over Harry your a idiot. So the point is there is no point. Mistakes and evaluations are different. Even from the so-called professionals. Who doesn't make mistakes? Water Under the Bridge is Correct response, by Lifer. It's not water under the bridge in two respects: first, BB has an epically bad record drafting WR talent (though it must be said he has made up for some of that via better slot receiver and tight end picks). This wasn't just a bad pick - everyone makes bad picks, even a good GM like BB. Something about evaluating gifted/athletic players at certain positions who tend to be prima donnas just seems to flummox BB a bit. WR is the main one, CB is the second position where these struggles have occurred, though not to quite the same extent. But seriously, have a look at the WR drafts after Deion Branch. Just not BB's position - though it seems like certain members of this forum really struggle to admit even a great GM can have some flaws. Well, they do, and so does BB, it's a hard job.
Also, it's not water under the bridge if BB relies more on his pals like Lombardi, and his own interview (which Harry evidently aced) versus that of his own scouts - it was reported that BB's scouts wanted him to go in another direction (Deebo or AJ Brown), not Harry. At some point, after so much futility at that position, maybe defer to someone else a bit. This issue could come up again in this year's draft, so it's not under the bridge IMO. (Though to be honest the only receiver I really want him to draft is a slot, and that could come later in the draft, and he's better at evaluating heady/smart/shift slot guys who don't tend to have WR diva egos).
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Post by mthurl on Apr 22, 2022 9:16:37 GMT -5
Seeing as how I really liked Deebo Samuel and thought he was the guy we were going to select in the first round, I kind of have to stay true and select him. It doesn't mean I don't like Harry, I do, it's just that I'm staying true to who I really liked, and who I thought would fit the offense to a T. I obviously was wrong. You were not wrong! Lol. With Samual I just saw...”football player”. Patriot style football player. With Harry I saw potential, and issues he’d need to overcome. He just couldn’t do it. Such a shame because he really could have helped this football team if he panned out.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 22, 2022 9:20:41 GMT -5
Mike Lombardi said he was excellent too. He said if you pick DK Metcalf over Harry your a idiot. So the point is there is no point. Mistakes and evaluations are different. Even from the so-called professionals. Who doesn't make mistakes? Water Under the Bridge is Correct response, by Lifer. Those comments by Lombardi were pretty bad at the time, and now. This just goes to show you that ego, seeing talent, picking talent, thinking you’re better than everyone...is all BS. I guess he’s wince walked back his comments and admitted he was wrong? Someone mentioned that to me. If so? Good. If not? Shame on him.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:32:59 GMT -5
Those comments by Lombardi were pretty bad at the time, and now. This just goes to show you that ego, seeing talent, picking talent, thinking you’re better than everyone...is all BS. I guess he’s wince walked back his comments and admitted he was wrong? Someone mentioned that to me. If so? Good. If not? Shame on him. He said he was wrong about DK Metcalf recently on his podcast, he almost always admits when he was wrong, like when he said in 2017 the Eagles weren't good enough to win a ring. That being said Metcalf broke his neck just months before the combine, it was no shame to pass on him... 32 teams did for almost two rounds. He's a WR who runs three different versions of a go route, he might do it better than any other WR in the league, but that's who he is. There's a tool for every job. They shouldn't have taken N'Keal, but wouldn't have taken Metcalf at that spot either so it's not worth revisiting.
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Post by carawaydj on Apr 22, 2022 9:33:25 GMT -5
I voted Harry lol. Conclusion: I'm a lot smarter when I can use hindsight. It would seem a lot of us are. He got a lot of votes.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:34:20 GMT -5
I voted Harry lol. Conclusion: I'm a lot smarter when I can use hindsight. Yep, we're all geniuses after the fact.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 22, 2022 9:41:53 GMT -5
Those comments by Lombardi were pretty bad at the time, and now. This just goes to show you that ego, seeing talent, picking talent, thinking you’re better than everyone...is all BS. I guess he’s wince walked back his comments and admitted he was wrong? Someone mentioned that to me. If so? Good. If not? Shame on him. He said he was wrong about DK Metcalf recently on his podcast, he almost always admits when he was wrong, like when he said in 2017 the Eagles weren't good enough to win a ring. That being said Metcalf broke his neck just months before the combine, it was no shame to pass on him... 32 teams did for almost two rounds. He's a WR who runs three different versions of a go route, he might do it better than any other WR in the league, but that's who he is. There's a tool for every job. They shouldn't have taken N'Keal, but wouldn't have taken Metcalf at that spot either so it's not worth revisiting. Did he admit to how wrong he was on N’Keal Harry? Because hopefully he did. If I remember he said that he could run every route (something like that). And as we stand here now, HARRY was the one who couldn’t run more than three routes. And poorly at that. He was a mistake. A big one. I don’t think anyone is revisiting or comparing Harry to Metcalf, or saying we should have drafted Metcalf (although that sure would have been a better option, and never mind Deebo). I think people were just commenting on Lombardi, and the draft itself.
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Post by portfolio1 on Apr 22, 2022 9:43:06 GMT -5
I voted Harry lol. Conclusion: I'm a lot smarter when I can use hindsight. Yep, we're all geniuses after the fact. To prove I know what I'm talking about I just tried to vote for someone other than Harry.... it wouldn't accept my vote. I guess you will all have to take my word that today I tried to vote that it was a mistake to draft Harry!
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:45:43 GMT -5
Did he admit to how wrong he was on N’Keal Harry? Because hopefully he did. If I remember he said that he could run every route (something like that). And as we stand here now, HARRY was the one who couldn’t run more than three routes. And poorly at that. He was a mistake. A big one. I don’t think anyone is revisiting or comparing Harry to Metcalf, or saying we should have drafted Metcalf (although that sure would have been a better option, and never mind Deebo). I think people were just commenting on Lombardi, and the draft itself. Harry has every physical trait one would want in an outside WR prospect. He's a great athlete, whether fans here want to admit it or not... he's just a sht football player. Measuring heart, desire, smarts, toughness and what's between the ears is the hard part. If anyone could do that ^ there would be zero or a lot fewer busts in the draft.
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Post by salcon on Apr 22, 2022 9:52:29 GMT -5
I really don't see the big deal. The team busted on the 32nd pick in the draft. A player that was highly touted by many. It didn't work out. So what! It's not like they bust on every first round pick year after year some inept franchises do. And they do it with much higher picks.
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Post by portfolio1 on Apr 22, 2022 10:13:00 GMT -5
I really don't see the big deal. The team busted on the 32nd pick in the draft. A player that was highly touted by many. It didn't work out. So what! It's not like they bust on every first round pick year after year some inept franchises do. And they do it with much higher picks. Imaging drafting Butt Fumble... then imagine trading up for Donald.... and throw in drafting Gholston (did I get the name right?)... We are talking HIGH picks here.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 22, 2022 10:18:33 GMT -5
Did he admit to how wrong he was on N’Keal Harry? Because hopefully he did. If I remember he said that he could run every route (something like that). And as we stand here now, HARRY was the one who couldn’t run more than three routes. And poorly at that. He was a mistake. A big one. I don’t think anyone is revisiting or comparing Harry to Metcalf, or saying we should have drafted Metcalf (although that sure would have been a better option, and never mind Deebo). I think people were just commenting on Lombardi, and the draft itself. Harry has every physical trait one would want in an outside WR prospect. He's a great athlete, whether fans here want to admit it or not... he's just a sht football player. Measuring heart, desire, smarts, toughness and what's between the ears is the hard part. If anyone could do that ^ there would be zero or a lot fewer busts in the draft. I thought there were obvious tools to work with…size, athleticism and body control. Other than that? I thought he was severely lacking in burst, separation and speed. I’m talking 4.4 speed and bellow. Outside, get behind you and there’s nothing you can do about it, speed. He was Also awful off the line, which I attested to quickness, or lack of.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 10:42:38 GMT -5
I thought there were obvious tools to work with…size, athleticism and body control. Other than that? I thought he was severely lacking in burst, separation and speed. I’m talking 4.4 speed and bellow. Outside, get behind you and there’s nothing you can do about it, speed. He was Also awful off the line, which I attested to quickness, or lack of. I still don’t believe there’s any physical trait that prevents Harry from being even moderately successful and it’s not visible in his measurables. He’s football dumb, he’s soft, he has zero confidence, maybe he lacks motor control where his brain and body meet. None of this would be apparent except maybe in the interview process and to a trained psychologist. I think BB screwed up by falling in love with the player during the interview process. In his own words (paraphrasing) he only wants to coach guys he likes. He fell in love with the choir boy, the nice guy, the soft spoken humble guy… and that seems to be the antithesis of what makes a successful WR in this league. The guys who make it are divas, overconfident, brash… he doesn’t want to coach those guys and as far as WR’s goes it was a mistake IMO.
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Post by CWTB on Apr 22, 2022 10:57:15 GMT -5
Chad Jackson, man did I love that pick.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 10:59:42 GMT -5
Chad Jackson, man did I love that pick. Incredible athlete, great college production… he was a bone head. How do you measure that?
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Post by mthurl on Apr 22, 2022 11:00:12 GMT -5
I thought there were obvious tools to work with…size, athleticism and body control. Other than that? I thought he was severely lacking in burst, separation and speed. I’m talking 4.4 speed and bellow. Outside, get behind you and there’s nothing you can do about it, speed. He was Also awful off the line, which I attested to quickness, or lack of. I still don’t believe there’s any physical trait that prevents Harry from being even moderately successful and it’s not visible in his measurables. He’s football dumb, he’s soft, he has zero confidence, maybe he lacks motor control where his brain and body meet. None of this would be apparent except maybe in the interview process and to a trained psychologist. I think BB screwed up by falling in love with the player during the interview process. In his own words (paraphrasing) he only wants to coach guys he likes. He fell in love with the choir boy, the nice guy, the soft spoken humble guy… and that seems to be the antithesis of what makes a successful WR in this league. The guys who make it are divas, overconfident, brash… he doesn’t want to coach those guys and as far as WR’s goes it was a mistake IMO. Harry wasn’t exactly known as the guy/kid you’re portraying at Arizona. Here Edwards said (if I remember) that they had to put someone with Harry to keep him on track. I don’t remember exactly what was said, but I found those comments after the draft a little curious to say the least. That they needed someone to set Harry straight and keep him focused. Something like that. And I personally do think that physically he had two things that he couldn’t over come…his lack of explosiveness/quickness. And his weight, specifically his wieght hurting him throughout his cuts. He’d throttle down almost to a stop when changing direction, and it slowed all momentum throughout his route/ability to get open. I think if he were lighter perhaps it could have helped? I think he tried to come in lighter one year, but it didn’t appear that way to me. He was just a bad pick. A swing for the fence that didn’t work out. I never blamed Bill Belichick for trying on that pick. Not at all.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 11:05:25 GMT -5
Harry wasn’t exactly known as the guy/kid you’re portraying at Arizona. Here Edwards said (if I remember) that they had to put someone with Harry to keep him on track. I don’t remember exactly what was said, but I found those comments after the draft a little curious to say the least. That they needed someone to set Harry straight and keep him focused. Something like that. And I personally do think that physically he had two things that he couldn’t over come…his lack of explosiveness/quickness. And his weight, specifically his wieght hurting him throughout his cuts. He’d throttle down almost to a stop when changing direction, and it slowed all momentum throughout his route/ability to get open. I think if he were lighter perhaps it could have helped? I think he tried to come in lighter one year, but it didn’t appear that way to me. He was just a bad pick. A swing for the fence that didn’t work out. I never blamed Bill Belichick for trying on that pick. Not at all. Every draft guide on the planet had him ranked top 5 if not top 3… that wasn’t just me. N’Keal smokes a CB deep, gets great “separation” and a ball thrown to him and rather then run under it he dives and hurts himself… not once but multiple times… that’s just dumb. That’s lacking confidence in his legs and ability to play the position. He’s soft.
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Post by philskiw on Apr 22, 2022 12:07:26 GMT -5
Chad Jackson, man did I love that pick. dont forget Ras-IR
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Post by mthurl on Apr 22, 2022 14:59:16 GMT -5
Harry wasn’t exactly known as the guy/kid you’re portraying at Arizona. Here Edwards said (if I remember) that they had to put someone with Harry to keep him on track. I don’t remember exactly what was said, but I found those comments after the draft a little curious to say the least. That they needed someone to set Harry straight and keep him focused. Something like that. And I personally do think that physically he had two things that he couldn’t over come…his lack of explosiveness/quickness. And his weight, specifically his wieght hurting him throughout his cuts. He’d throttle down almost to a stop when changing direction, and it slowed all momentum throughout his route/ability to get open. I think if he were lighter perhaps it could have helped? I think he tried to come in lighter one year, but it didn’t appear that way to me. He was just a bad pick. A swing for the fence that didn’t work out. I never blamed Bill Belichick for trying on that pick. Not at all. Every draft guide on the planet had him ranked top 5 if not top 3… that wasn’t just me. N’Keal smokes a CB deep, gets great “separation” and a ball thrown to him and rather then run under it he dives and hurts himself… not once but multiple times… that’s just dumb. That’s lacking confidence in his legs and ability to play the position. He’s soft. Oh I agree, he is soft. And every draft guide has him in the top 5? So what? I mean, not that it matters but I just found two that had him outside the top 5. Means nothing. Three guys picked within reach behind him are better players. The guy sucks. He had immediate concerns on tape for his lack of ability to separate and get open. It never improved. Even the laziest players in the NFL can get separation on occasion because they have the ability. Harry never did. It’s pretty plain to see - the guy is covered from the Monet the ball is sampled till the play is over - no one cares that he ran behind someone a few times in a straight line on outside single coverage. The kid selling parking across the street from the stadium can do that once in 50 tries too (if he ever played football and could run). Well, not really but that’s about the ability of N’Keal Harry. He’s a colossal bust. And a lazy one at that.
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Post by prairiemike on Apr 22, 2022 15:32:16 GMT -5
Every draft guide on the planet had him ranked top 5 if not top 3… that wasn’t just me. N’Keal smokes a CB deep, gets great “separation” and a ball thrown to him and rather then run under it he dives and hurts himself… not once but multiple times… that’s just dumb. That’s lacking confidence in his legs and ability to play the position. He’s soft. Oh I agree, he is soft. And every draft guide has him in the top 5? So what? I mean, not that it matters but I just found two that had him outside the top 5. Means nothing. Three guys picked within reach behind him are better players. The guy sucks. He had immediate concerns on tape for his lack of ability to separate and get open. It never improved. Even the laziest players in the NFL can get separation on occasion because they have the ability. Harry never did. It’s pretty plain to see - the guy is covered from the Monet the ball is sampled till the play is over - no one cares that he ran behind someone a few times in a straight line on outside single coverage. The kid selling parking across the street from the stadium can do that once in 50 tries too (if he ever played football and could run). Well, not really but that’s about the ability of N’Keal Harry. He’s a colossal bust. And a lazy one at that. Okay ... I'll admit it ... I wanted to be just wild about Harry (and I wanted Harry to be wild about me) ... but he hasn't turned out to be very good, and while I respect both mthurl and wozzy as informed posters who don 't simply spout off from the top of their heads (the way I do), but actually present evidence to support their claims and approach this forum as if it matters, (wouldn't it be funny if it really did?) ... I do take exception to the word "lazy." Yes ... Nickel sucks, and I think he knows it. He could blast guys, physically, (sometimes) at the college level... and that allowed him to get drafted high. Then he got to the NFL. where everyone was as big and tall as he was . . . and now he's lazy? Maybe he was. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I might not be. But can't a guy just be not quite good enough? Is that so terrible? I mean ... it's easy to say such-and-thus-guy won't make it. That's pretty easy to say. When I was a teenager I used to dismiss guys you've never heard of all the time. You should have heard the goofy shit we used to say about Jim Plunkett! The point is ... I don't remember what the point was ... Never mind.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 22, 2022 15:36:37 GMT -5
Oh I agree, he is soft. And every draft guide has him in the top 5? So what? I mean, not that it matters but I just found two that had him outside the top 5. Means nothing. Three guys picked within reach behind him are better players. The guy sucks. He had immediate concerns on tape for his lack of ability to separate and get open. It never improved. Even the laziest players in the NFL can get separation on occasion because they have the ability. Harry never did. It’s pretty plain to see - the guy is covered from the Monet the ball is sampled till the play is over - no one cares that he ran behind someone a few times in a straight line on outside single coverage. The kid selling parking across the street from the stadium can do that once in 50 tries too (if he ever played football and could run). Well, not really but that’s about the ability of N’Keal Harry. He’s a colossal bust. And a lazy one at that. Okay ... I'll admit it ... I wanted to be just wild about Harry (and I wanted Harry to be wild about me) ... but he hasn't turned out to be very good, and while I respect both mthurl and wozzy as informed posters who don 't simply spout off from the top of their heads (the way I do), but actually present evidence to support their claims and approach this forum as if it matters, (wouldn't it be funny if it really did?) ... I do take exception to the word "lazy." Yes ... Nickel sucks, and I think he knows it. He could blast guys, physically, (sometimes) at the college level... and that allowed him to get drafted high. Then he got to the NFL. where everyone was as big and tall as he was . . . and now he's lazy? Maybe he was. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I might not be. But can't a guy just be not quite good enough? Is that so terrible? I mean ... it's easy to say such-and-thus-guy won't make it. That's pretty easy to say. When I was a teenager I used to dismiss guys you've never heard of all the time. You should have heard the goofy shit we used to say about Jim Plunkett! The point is ... I don't remember what the point was ... Never mind. He's proverbial, "looks like Lia Thomas, plays like Jane".
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Post by prairiemike on Apr 22, 2022 15:52:13 GMT -5
Okay ... I'll admit it ... I wanted to be just wild about Harry (and I wanted Harry to be wild about me) ... but he hasn't turned out to be very good, and while I respect both mthurl and wozzy as informed posters who don 't simply spout off from the top of their heads (the way I do), but actually present evidence to support their claims and approach this forum as if it matters, (wouldn't it be funny if it really did?) ... I do take exception to the word "lazy." Yes ... Nickel sucks, and I think he knows it. He could blast guys, physically, (sometimes) at the college level... and that allowed him to get drafted high. Then he got to the NFL. where everyone was as big and tall as he was . . . and now he's lazy? Maybe he was. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I might not be. But can't a guy just be not quite good enough? Is that so terrible? I mean ... it's easy to say such-and-thus-guy won't make it. That's pretty easy to say. When I was a teenager I used to dismiss guys you've never heard of all the time. You should have heard the goofy shit we used to say about Jim Plunkett! The point is ... I don't remember what the point was ... Never mind. He's proverbial, "looks like Lia Thomas, plays like Jane". Well .. while we're ignoring the above poster's insensitivity to Liar Thomas, his struggle, and the endless, silent struggle of people just like Liar ... who would lie just the same ... if only they could speak out in unison and tell the world ... Oh .. I'm sorry. This is embarrassing. It turns out that the opposing view didn't actually have anything to say.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 22, 2022 16:18:34 GMT -5
Oh I agree, he is soft. And every draft guide has him in the top 5? So what? I mean, not that it matters but I just found two that had him outside the top 5. Means nothing. Three guys picked within reach behind him are better players. The guy sucks. He had immediate concerns on tape for his lack of ability to separate and get open. It never improved. Even the laziest players in the NFL can get separation on occasion because they have the ability. Harry never did. It’s pretty plain to see - the guy is covered from the Monet the ball is sampled till the play is over - no one cares that he ran behind someone a few times in a straight line on outside single coverage. The kid selling parking across the street from the stadium can do that once in 50 tries too (if he ever played football and could run). Well, not really but that’s about the ability of N’Keal Harry. He’s a colossal bust. And a lazy one at that. Okay ... I'll admit it ... I wanted to be just wild about Harry (and I wanted Harry to be wild about me) ... but he hasn't turned out to be very good, and while I respect both mthurl and wozzy as informed posters who don 't simply spout off from the top of their heads (the way I do), but actually present evidence to support their claims and approach this forum as if it matters, (wouldn't it be funny if it really did?) ... I do take exception to the word "lazy." Yes ... Nickel sucks, and I think he knows it. He could blast guys, physically, (sometimes) at the college level... and that allowed him to get drafted high. Then he got to the NFL. where everyone was as big and tall as he was . . . and now he's lazy? Maybe he was. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I might not be. But can't a guy just be not quite good enough? Is that so terrible? I mean ... it's easy to say such-and-thus-guy won't make it. That's pretty easy to say. When I was a teenager I used to dismiss guys you've never heard of all the time. You should have heard the goofy shit we used to say about Jim Plunkett! The point is ... I don't remember what the point was ... Never mind. The lazy part, at least fro me, is from training camp observations of a guy who would walk around like he was a top five receiver in the NFL…take his helmet off, take a knee after a “good play”, go off to the side and get some “treatment” after doing whatever everyone else on that field was doing. That, and from what I’ve heard about him from the beat writers…that he’s a guy who think he’s arrived, when he hasn’t. And then he takes himself out of plays and get something iced or rubbed down, where everyone else is wondering why. Other than that, yeah I just don’t think he’s good. He’s a guy I’d expect to get cut second year into his contract, as a 5th round pick. Just my Opinion. Same for the laziness/attitude. It’s just my observations from watching a guy and comparing him to 100’s of others I’ve seen down there at training camp. He always seemed to have a swagger and diva type of way of walking around. Then again I could be wrong. Lol
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