|
Post by rkarp on Apr 10, 2024 11:51:18 GMT -5
I can’t go that far with Penix. The injury history has to be a major concern. Even if they were 2 years or more ago, it’s not like they haven’t happened. And he was pretty bad in the Michigan game. Yeah, just one game, but it was a huge one. If NE trades back and gets him later, I’ll get behind the pick, but at #3, no way. To me, if the injury history is the only thing giving someone pause from taking him at #3, I would still take him at #3. Best case scenario is they trade back and still get him. With the one game sample, we could probably play that game all day. And, I'd rather the guy look less than stellar on the biggest stage, against a truly elite college defense (i.e. having gotten his team there), than against some instate or conference rival at the end of the season, like Maye did against NC State or Clemson. I think I still stand by my earlier comment that 6 QB's are taken over the first 12 picks
|
|
|
Post by DaPatriots on Apr 10, 2024 12:46:58 GMT -5
Welcome aboard MB!
Plenty of room on this train!!
The MPJ express!
|
|
|
Post by freediro on Apr 10, 2024 13:25:06 GMT -5
Lenox with our 2nd rounder would be fine if we get a blue chip tackle and WR with the 1st rounders we get in a trade to trade back. But, they’re all gonna actually need to hit and play well. Otherwise I am not sure I can trust Penix to lift a team with his play alone.
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2024 13:47:27 GMT -5
Lenox with our 2nd rounder would be fine if we get a blue chip tackle and WR with the 1st rounders we get in a trade to trade back. But, they’re all gonna actually need to hit and play well. Otherwise I am not sure I can trust Penix to lift a team with his play alone. I don't see any chance of Penix being available in Rd 2, unless his medicals are a disaster, which they don't appear to be. At this point, I don't see him getting out of the top 12-15.
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2024 13:50:18 GMT -5
Some good guesses! The gut feeling/belief I've been tossing around is obviously tied to QB. I've been watching and listening to a good amount of stuff, as there's endless amounts of content out there on all of the QB's. Everyone has their opinion, as well as some biases. As PL mentioned, Jayden Daniels was the QB is was on first, then it moved to JJ. I still have an affinity for JJ, and would love to see him end up in Foxboro, but I just have a feeling that Michael Penix Jr. is the guy that can come in, "improve the culture", lead, fire that fvcken pigskin around the ball field, and win. He, in my head and heart seems like the QB who's most likely to succeed in this class. I honestly can't give you a singular reason why, just that he seems to be and have "It" (great book BTW, but a different kind of "It"). They also want someone who can "throw from the pocket", and MPJ is arguably the best thrower of the football in this group. With the injury history, I'm not overly concerned anymore, and he's played two full seasons in Washington, so the other stuff could've been fluky or bad luck. In any case, it shows resilience, the ability to handle adversity, and come back even better. He's also won at two different programs, taking things to new heights with a much better program and roster in Seattle. I also like MJP over Drake Maye at any spot, whether that be at #3, or via trade back. So, in closing, JJM has been and still is my guy, but my gut says that of all these QB's, Michael Penix Jr. is the most likely to be good, very good, or great. It will definitely improve inclusion. All jokes aside, trading back a few spots, taking a stud LT then taking Penix with that extra 2 would be cool with me. I can see it now... RKK and The Collaboration Station draft a black QB, and a white CB, and do a mic drop on racism... officially ending it.
|
|
froglegs
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
Posts: 894
Likes: 479
|
Post by froglegs on Apr 10, 2024 13:57:07 GMT -5
Some good guesses! The gut feeling/belief I've been tossing around is obviously tied to QB. I've been watching and listening to a good amount of stuff, as there's endless amounts of content out there on all of the QB's. Everyone has their opinion, as well as some biases. As PL mentioned, Jayden Daniels was the QB is was on first, then it moved to JJ. I still have an affinity for JJ, and would love to see him end up in Foxboro, but I just have a feeling that Michael Penix Jr. is the guy that can come in, "improve the culture", lead, fire that fvcken pigskin around the ball field, and win. He, in my head and heart seems like the QB who's most likely to succeed in this class. I honestly can't give you a singular reason why, just that he seems to be and have "It" (great book BTW, but a different kind of "It"). They also want someone who can "throw from the pocket", and MPJ is arguably the best thrower of the football in this group. With the injury history, I'm not overly concerned anymore, and he's played two full seasons in Washington, so the other stuff could've been fluky or bad luck. In any case, it shows resilience, the ability to handle adversity, and come back even better. He's also won at two different programs, taking things to new heights with a much better program and roster in Seattle. I also like MJP over Drake Maye at any spot, whether that be at #3, or via trade back. So, in closing, JJM has been and still is my guy, but my gut says that of all these QB's, Michael Penix Jr. is the most likely to be good, very good, or great. It will definitely improve inclusion. All jokes aside, trading back a few spots, taking a stud LT then taking Penix with that extra 2 would be cool with me. In theory it looks fine and cool but when do you pick Penix? He might be gone long before round #2 (in the last mock draft on NFL.com he goes to the Raiders at #13). By trading down you risk to go empty at the QB position what would be an utter disaster.
|
|
|
Post by johngrant on Apr 10, 2024 14:11:03 GMT -5
I said it after the semifinal game and I’m sticking with it that Penix is going top ten. Possibly the second QB taken but almost likely before Maye or JJ.
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2024 14:28:24 GMT -5
Welcome aboard MB! Plenty of room on this train!! The MPJ express! If they take him, how many minutes will go by before you purchase his jersey on the team store? Haha
|
|
|
Post by philskiw on Apr 10, 2024 14:29:28 GMT -5
I said it after the semifinal game and I’m sticking with it that Penix is going top ten. Possibly the second QB taken but almost likely before Maye or JJ. i agree but a guy that really hates BB said he won’t go until round 2 or 3. Penix makes all the throws.
|
|
|
Post by DaPatriots on Apr 10, 2024 14:43:25 GMT -5
Welcome aboard MB! Plenty of room on this train!! The MPJ express! If they take him, how many minutes will go by before you purchase his jersey on the team store? Haha It would be my 1st since Ben Coates! Ben Coates was the 1st sports jersey I ever bought.
|
|
|
Post by jamesbrady2020 on Apr 10, 2024 14:48:29 GMT -5
I can’t go that far with Penix. The injury history has to be a major concern. Even if they were 2 years or more ago, it’s not like they haven’t happened. And he was pretty bad in the Michigan game. Yeah, just one game, but it was a huge one. If NE trades back and gets him later, I’ll get behind the pick, but at #3, no way. To me, if the injury history is the only thing giving someone pause from taking him at #3, I would still take him at #3. Best case scenario is they trade back and still get him. With the one game sample, we could probably play that game all day. And, I'd rather the guy look less than stellar on the biggest stage, against a truly elite college defense (i.e. having gotten his team there), than against some instate or conference rival at the end of the season, like Maye did against NC State or Clemson. Penix is intriguing to me, but we've heard no interest rumor-wise from the Patriots (at least publicly) and as of now he's had no top 30 visit scheduled with the team. Doesn't mean they won't take him, it's possible they're his secret admirer, but I wouldn't bet on it. My biggest problem aside from the injuries is his age. At 23, we don't know how much more he's going to grow as a player. Plus coming into this situation with this roster IMO would not be ideal to start his career. I think he would be better off somewhere like Minnesota or San Francisco where the talent is already built around him so all he has to do is flourish with his arm, which we've all seen he's capable of doing.
|
|
|
Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 10, 2024 15:57:42 GMT -5
GBP won the SB with Aaron Rodgers in 2011 Alex Van Pelt was with the GBP in 2012-17 Ben McAdoo was with the GBP in 2006-13 Eliot Wolf was with the GBP in 2004-17 The only great QB that the three decision-makers have worked with is Rodgers. That is their template of what a great QB is like. It would be hard for them to imagine that any other style of QB can be great. Of the top 6 QB prospects, JJM's playing style is the most similar to AR's. Even their stats in last two years in college somewhat mirror each other's. except the game has changed; even since 2017..... How so? Why do you think they are wrong in thinking it would be good if they find someone who can play like AR?
|
|
|
Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 10, 2024 15:59:18 GMT -5
To me, if the injury history is the only thing giving someone pause from taking him at #3, I would still take him at #3. Best case scenario is they trade back and still get him. With the one game sample, we could probably play that game all day. And, I'd rather the guy look less than stellar on the biggest stage, against a truly elite college defense (i.e. having gotten his team there), than against some instate or conference rival at the end of the season, like Maye did against NC State or Clemson. Penix is intriguing to me, but we've heard no interest rumor-wise from the Patriots (at least publicly) and as of now he's had no top 30 visit scheduled with the team. Doesn't mean they won't take him, it's possible they're his secret admirer, but I wouldn't bet on it. My biggest problem aside from the injuries is his age. At 23, we don't know how much more he's going to grow as a player. Plus coming into this situation with this roster IMO would not be ideal to start his career. I think he would be better off somewhere like Minnesota or San Francisco where the talent is already built around him so all he has to do is flourish with his arm, which we've all seen he's capable of doing. Why is being drafted at age 23 such a big deal for Penix but it was not for Joe Burrow?
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Apr 10, 2024 16:18:41 GMT -5
I agree with MB that Penix is going to go 1st round and probably some place near the middle of the round. I'll guess and say 15-25.
IF he is the target for the Pats, they can trade down to 10 or somewhere close, pick up extra picks and take Penix.
With the extra picks, they should easily be able to pick up a starting LT, blue chip WR and Penix. Might go a long way in solving our offensive woes and doing so in first 2 rounds of the draft.
Penix battles it out with Jacoby and worst case sits behind him for some time.
This may be the smartest move honestly. Because they get starting quality LT and WR + better than average chance that they found their starting QB.
|
|
|
Post by wazzu on Apr 10, 2024 17:38:41 GMT -5
It will definitely improve inclusion. All jokes aside, trading back a few spots, taking a stud LT then taking Penix with that extra 2 would be cool with me. I can see it now... RKK and The Collaboration Station draft a black QB, and a white CB, and do a mic drop on racism... officially ending it. Probably need a black kicker as well.
|
|
|
Post by muzwell on Apr 10, 2024 18:06:40 GMT -5
I can see it now... RKK and The Collaboration Station draft a black QB, and a white CB, and do a mic drop on racism... officially ending it. Probably need a black kicker as well. The Rooney Rule should cover kickers. They’re all white and that’s messed up. A few token hispanics. Something should be done.
|
|
|
Post by fisher on Apr 10, 2024 18:08:50 GMT -5
JJ slips to 34 and pats take him Who did they pick at 3 then? MHJ
|
|
|
Post by fisher on Apr 10, 2024 18:13:59 GMT -5
Imagine if you bypass Maye day..and take Penix …Maye (the force b3 with y’all) takes the coaching and becomes Josh Allen or better and Penix averages playing 12 to 15 games a year. If that happens all personnel should be fired.
|
|
|
Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 10, 2024 18:22:06 GMT -5
Lenox with our 2nd rounder would be fine if we get a blue chip tackle and WR with the 1st rounders we get in a trade to trade back. But, they’re all gonna actually need to hit and play well. Otherwise I am not sure I can trust Penix to lift a team with his play alone. But you seem pretty sure that Maye can lift a team with his play alone. Why is that?
|
|
|
Post by patsfan2007 on Apr 10, 2024 18:31:23 GMT -5
This was a great thread....that is..... until the same cast of characters slithered out of their crawl space to make it about race.... Nice work, champs!
|
|
|
Post by mthurl on Apr 10, 2024 19:06:10 GMT -5
Interesting thread, I just happened upon a MPJ “every throw 2023” video. I’ve always thought he had the best arm in the draft, some decent size, big hands…he kid of reminds me of Warren Moon, yet I do think there are some things I don’t like all that much either. He is a different player throwing the ball under pressure - I guess they all are - but when you see an effortless rocket ship armed quarterback struggle and look pedestrian under pressure…it kind of makes you doubt a few things. But the arm talent is most definitely there, and his deep ball passing is unreal. This kid can put the football wherever he wants, whenever he wants, kind of like Dan Marino. Actually, he’s pretty much the black Dan Marino.
|
|
|
Post by seattlepat2016 on Apr 10, 2024 19:52:26 GMT -5
Interesting thread, I just happened upon a MPJ “every throw 2023” video. I’ve always thought he had the best arm in the draft, some decent size, big hands…he kid of reminds me of Warren Moon, yet I do think there are some things I don’t like all that much either. He is a different player throwing the ball under pressure - I guess they all are - but when you see an effortless rocket ship armed quarterback struggle and look pedestrian under pressure…it kind of makes you doubt a few things. But the arm talent is most definitely there, and his deep ball passing is unreal. This kid can put the football wherever he wants, whenever he wants, kind of like Dan Marino. Actually, he’s pretty much the black Dan Marino. I shared a video where Eisen and Breer were talking about coaches liking Penix much more than scouts. The coaches' reasoning is that they can teach him to move in the pocket to handle the pressure better. They cannot teach anticipation and accuracy on long passes. IMO anticipation, timing and accuracy are his superpower. Everyone in the top 6 has more than adequate arm for a rookie QB. If you have the time, I suggest you watch the "every throw" video again. I suggest you pause at the moment Penix pulls his arm behind him to start the throwing motion (practically the moment he decides when, where and how to throw the ball). With the video paused look at the receiver he is passing to. Especially with Odunze, you will find, quite often, that the WR has no separation at the moment Penix starts to throw. But Penix and the receiver both know where the pass is going, based on what the defenders do. That's NFL level connection between QB and receivers. When you look at the "every throw" videos of the other QBs, you will find that on most passes they wait for the receiver to separate before throwing the fastball in.
|
|
|
Post by freediro on Apr 10, 2024 21:14:29 GMT -5
Lenox with our 2nd rounder would be fine if we get a blue chip tackle and WR with the 1st rounders we get in a trade to trade back. But, they’re all gonna actually need to hit and play well. Otherwise I am not sure I can trust Penix to lift a team with his play alone. But you seem pretty sure that Maye can lift a team with his play alone. Why is that? Because Maye made a bunch of nobody’s, or 3rd rounder at best (possibly lower with a QB worse than Maye) has the prototypical size and the athleticism to add to the standard QB skill set. He has things that just aren’t reachable while his short comings are more easily reachable than other QBs issues. Penix would be better for the Pats in year 1 or maybe year 2, but Maye is much better for the Pats in the long run. His skills translate to making a weapon more dangerous than they ought otherwise be.
|
|
|
Post by salcon on Apr 10, 2024 21:19:46 GMT -5
Interesting thread, I just happened upon a MPJ “every throw 2023” video. I’ve always thought he had the best arm in the draft, some decent size, big hands…he kid of reminds me of Warren Moon, yet I do think there are some things I don’t like all that much either. He is a different player throwing the ball under pressure - I guess they all are - but when you see an effortless rocket ship armed quarterback struggle and look pedestrian under pressure…it kind of makes you doubt a few things. But the arm talent is most definitely there, and his deep ball passing is unreal. This kid can put the football wherever he wants, whenever he wants, kind of like Dan Marino. Actually, he’s pretty much the black Dan Marino. I shared a video where Eisen and Breer were talking about coaches liking Penix much more than scouts. The coaches' reasoning is that they can teach him to move in the pocket to handle the pressure better. They cannot teach anticipation and accuracy on long passes. IMO anticipation, timing and accuracy are his superpower. Everyone in the top 6 has more than adequate arm for a rookie QB. If you have the time, I suggest you watch the "every throw" video again. I suggest you pause at the moment Penix pulls his arm behind him to start the throwing motion (practically the moment he decides when, where and how to throw the ball). With the video paused look at the receiver he is passing to. Especially with Odunze, you will find, quite often, that the WR has no separation at the moment Penix starts to throw. But Penix and the receiver both know where the pass is going, based on what the defenders do. That's NFL level connection between QB and receivers. When you look at the "every throw" videos of the other QBs, you will find that on most passes they wait for the receiver to separate before throwing the fastball in. Perfect! Because I heard our receivers don't get any separation.
|
|
|
Post by backbay on Apr 11, 2024 2:19:22 GMT -5
It will definitely improve inclusion. All jokes aside, trading back a few spots, taking a stud LT then taking Penix with that extra 2 would be cool with me. In theory it looks fine and cool but when do you pick Penix? He might be gone long before round #2 (in the last mock draft on NFL.com he goes to the Raiders at #13). By trading down you risk to go empty at the QB position what would be an utter disaster. Would only be possible with a trade with Vikings for both their 2 first round picks and 2025 1st rd pick. I’d rather trade with giants for their 2024 1st, 2nd, 3rd RBs pics and 2025 1st rnd pick and take a qb like Penix or Bo nix
|
|