|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 18, 2024 17:56:50 GMT -5
Again, a smokescreen for what? Who are they trying to deceive with this info? lets hope they are not confusing themselves I think they are exploring all options. I also think that's what they should be doing.
|
|
|
Post by philskiw on Apr 18, 2024 19:06:13 GMT -5
Wolf seems pretty happy with BBs guys. Who knew?
|
|
|
Post by carawaydj on Apr 18, 2024 20:33:48 GMT -5
Wolf seems pretty happy with BBs guys. Who knew? What if it's because they aren't just BB's guys? I can't put my finger on it but every time these guys talk something just seems a little off. It could be nothing more than me being so used to how BB did things and spoke. Nonetheless, I'm starting to wonder if BB's downfall wasn't that he didn't listen to these guys, but that he did.
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Apr 18, 2024 20:37:35 GMT -5
BB’s guys are great athletes and smart players, a GM would be a fool not to like these players.
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Apr 18, 2024 20:41:35 GMT -5
As far as a trade is concerned, they want as many options available to them at #3 as possible. Drumming up interest in advance is smart, even if they aren’t trading.
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Apr 19, 2024 7:01:14 GMT -5
but are they really open to trading out or is that a smokescreen? Again, a smokescreen for what? Who are they trying to deceive with this info? maybe themselves?
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 19, 2024 7:23:43 GMT -5
Again, a smokescreen for what? Who are they trying to deceive with this info? maybe themselves? I'm not sure if you're being facetious.
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Apr 19, 2024 10:41:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you're being facetious. I was joking. I don't see any smokescreens needed here. They have the 3rd pick. They can basically take whomever they want and leaning hard into saying you are going to draft a QB or we are open for business or a combo of whatever I don't think makes much difference.
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 19, 2024 10:47:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you're being facetious. I was joking. I don't see any smokescreens needed here. They have the 3rd pick. They can basically take whomever they want and leaning hard into saying you are going to draft a QB or we are open for business or a combo of whatever I don't think makes much difference. Agreed, and that's the point I've been trying to make.
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Apr 19, 2024 10:57:23 GMT -5
I think Williams goes 1, and Maye goes 2.
There we are sitting at 3. Is it Daniels or JJM?
OR
We trade out of 3 and take Penix somewhere around 10-12 and pickup a slew of draft picks?
What's everyone's thoughts on Daniels vs. JJM vs. Penix?
What doesn't help in the evaluation is determining what type of offense the Pats will run and who is best suited of the 3 to run that offense. For example, if they are looking to build a west coast, throw down the field offense, Penix is your guy. If they are looking to go 2 TE sets, lots of over the middle stuff/between the #'s, then JJM is your guy.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by jamesbrady2020 on Apr 19, 2024 11:05:22 GMT -5
I think Williams goes 1, and Maye goes 2. There we are sitting at 3. Is it Daniels or JJM? OR We trade out of 3 and take Penix somewhere around 10-12 and pickup a slew of draft picks? What's everyone's thoughts on Daniels vs. JJM vs. Penix? What doesn't help in the evaluation is determining what type of offense the Pats will run and who is best suited of the 3 to run that offense. For example, if they are looking to build a west coast, throw down the field offense, Penix is your guy. If they are looking to go 2 TE sets, lots of over the middle stuff/between the #'s, then JJM is your guy. Thoughts? The best fit for AVP's offense is probably JJM, but in terms of ceiling and overall potential, give me Daniels all day. I like McCarthy, but I think he needs a good situation to flourish. Same with Penix. Daniels is the kind of player that can change how defenses gameplan for your team. His running ability in particular makes defenses second-guess whether they want to prioritizing covering your receivers on 3rd and long. He has a much better arm than Lamar did coming out of the draft. I believe over time he will build up enough muscle to not get pummeled and hurt as much as we're all worried about.
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Apr 19, 2024 11:11:47 GMT -5
I think Williams goes 1, and Maye goes 2. There we are sitting at 3. Is it Daniels or JJM? OR We trade out of 3 and take Penix somewhere around 10-12 and pickup a slew of draft picks? What's everyone's thoughts on Daniels vs. JJM vs. Penix? What doesn't help in the evaluation is determining what type of offense the Pats will run and who is best suited of the 3 to run that offense. For example, if they are looking to build a west coast, throw down the field offense, Penix is your guy. If they are looking to go 2 TE sets, lots of over the middle stuff/between the #'s, then JJM is your guy. Thoughts? The best fit for AVP's offense is probably JJM, but in terms of ceiling and overall potential, give me Daniels all day. I like McCarthy, but I think he needs a good situation to flourish. Same with Penix. Daniels is the kind of player that can change how defenses gameplan for your team. His running ability in particular makes defenses second-guess whether they want to prioritizing covering your receivers on 3rd and long. He has a much better arm than Lamar did coming out of the draft. I believe over time he will build up enough muscle to not get pummeled and hurt as much as we're all worried about. Agree. Let's say Daniels goes at #2 vs. Maye. Do you go Maye or JJM or trade down maybe for Penix?
|
|
|
Post by paulk on Apr 19, 2024 11:21:38 GMT -5
Coach Mayo usually isn't going to telephone the opposing bench to tell them, "The next play is a run up the middle." Exception: victory formation. In the same vein the front office isn't going to tell anybody what they hope to do with pick #3.
Trader Bill made the most draft trades in the NFL, by a good margin. The Krafts remember what various good deals they wangled -- for example, Jerod Mayo the player came here after multiple draft trade deals. Eliot Wolf is from a fairly fast trading Green Bay background. He's going to trade!
The top of the first round (and the entire first round) is for other owners with stars in their eyes. The bargains (Gronk!) have always been in the second round. Why not trade that crisp dollar bill for five grubby quarters?
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 19, 2024 11:27:50 GMT -5
I think Williams goes 1, and Maye goes 2. There we are sitting at 3. Is it Daniels or JJM? OR We trade out of 3 and take Penix somewhere around 10-12 and pickup a slew of draft picks? What's everyone's thoughts on Daniels vs. JJM vs. Penix? What doesn't help in the evaluation is determining what type of offense the Pats will run and who is best suited of the 3 to run that offense. For example, if they are looking to build a west coast, throw down the field offense, Penix is your guy. If they are looking to go 2 TE sets, lots of over the middle stuff/between the #'s, then JJM is your guy. Thoughts? The best fit for AVP's offense is probably JJM, but in terms of ceiling and overall potential, give me Daniels all day. I like McCarthy, but I think he needs a good situation to flourish. Same with Penix. Daniels is the kind of player that can change how defenses gameplan for your team. His running ability in particular makes defenses second-guess whether they want to prioritizing covering your receivers on 3rd and long. He has a much better arm than Lamar did coming out of the draft. I believe over time he will build up enough muscle to not get pummeled and hurt as much as we're all worried about. If you wanna tell me that Jayden Daniels is a more seasoned passer (than Lamar) coming out, I can agree... but Lamar had/has a big arm. It wasn't inferior to JD's. Also, Daniels didn't flourish until he was in a good situation at LSU. I like the prospect, and have him as my #2 QB, but that's the reality.
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Apr 19, 2024 11:34:12 GMT -5
The best fit for AVP's offense is probably JJM, but in terms of ceiling and overall potential, give me Daniels all day. I like McCarthy, but I think he needs a good situation to flourish. Same with Penix. Daniels is the kind of player that can change how defenses gameplan for your team. His running ability in particular makes defenses second-guess whether they want to prioritizing covering your receivers on 3rd and long. He has a much better arm than Lamar did coming out of the draft. I believe over time he will build up enough muscle to not get pummeled and hurt as much as we're all worried about. If you wanna tell me that Jayden Daniels is a more seasoned passer (than Lamar) coming out, I can agree... but Lamar had/has a big arm. It wasn't inferior to JD's. Also, Daniels didn't flourish until he was in a good situation at LSU. I like the prospect, and have him as my #2 QB, but that's the reality. #2 QB overall in this draft? Do you take Daniels or JJM at #3? OR if Daniels is gone, do you take JJM at #3?
|
|
|
Post by jamesbrady2020 on Apr 19, 2024 11:37:46 GMT -5
The best fit for AVP's offense is probably JJM, but in terms of ceiling and overall potential, give me Daniels all day. I like McCarthy, but I think he needs a good situation to flourish. Same with Penix. Daniels is the kind of player that can change how defenses gameplan for your team. His running ability in particular makes defenses second-guess whether they want to prioritizing covering your receivers on 3rd and long. He has a much better arm than Lamar did coming out of the draft. I believe over time he will build up enough muscle to not get pummeled and hurt as much as we're all worried about. Agree. Let's say Daniels goes at #2 vs. Maye. Do you go Maye or JJM or trade down maybe for Penix? Maye, without question. I'm not worried about the low floor because if he busts, then the team will suck enough where they will likely be back in this spot with a top 5 pick in a couple of years, which makes it easier to find another potential franchise QB. If he hits, then you have a guy who's capable of becoming a top 5 QB in the NFL, which is the kind of game-changer you need to compete with the Mahomes and Josh Allen's of the world. What worries me about drafting JJM (and Penix to some extent) is he has a higher floor, and so if he turns out to be just an average starter but not the kind of QB you need to compete with the best, then your stuck in purgatory which to me is the absolute worst case scenario. Bad enough where you're never truly in the Super Bowl conversation, but still good enough to never be in position to get another top 5 pick.
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 19, 2024 11:40:29 GMT -5
If you wanna tell me that Jayden Daniels is a more seasoned passer (than Lamar) coming out, I can agree... but Lamar had/has a big arm. It wasn't inferior to JD's. Also, Daniels didn't flourish until he was in a good situation at LSU. I like the prospect, and have him as my #2 QB, but that's the reality. #2 QB overall in this draft? Do you take Daniels or JJM at #3? OR if Daniels is gone, do you take JJM at #3? Meaning, I'd take JJM, Jayden Daniels, Michael Penix Jr. then Drake Maye... in that order. So, JD is my #2. Caleb Williams is going #1 overall, so he isn't really in the discussion. I also don't like him off the field, and question his ability to lead a franchise. But, he's probably the most talented QB in the class.
|
|
|
Post by jamesbrady2020 on Apr 19, 2024 11:42:55 GMT -5
The best fit for AVP's offense is probably JJM, but in terms of ceiling and overall potential, give me Daniels all day. I like McCarthy, but I think he needs a good situation to flourish. Same with Penix. Daniels is the kind of player that can change how defenses gameplan for your team. His running ability in particular makes defenses second-guess whether they want to prioritizing covering your receivers on 3rd and long. He has a much better arm than Lamar did coming out of the draft. I believe over time he will build up enough muscle to not get pummeled and hurt as much as we're all worried about. If you wanna tell me that Jayden Daniels is a more seasoned passer (than Lamar) coming out, I can agree... but Lamar had/has a big arm. It wasn't inferior to JD's. Also, Daniels didn't flourish until he was in a good situation at LSU. I like the prospect, and have him as my #2 QB, but that's the reality. I do agree with the LSU part, and that is concerning. But Daniels dual threat ability still will be there irregardless of the weapons around him. If the O-line can be at least average, I think that will generate enough time to extend plays with his legs and run for the 1st down when receivers are covered. When that happens, defenses in-game start to prioritize stopping the run with Daniels, which in theory should help the receivers get open more in shorter durations of time.
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 19, 2024 11:47:24 GMT -5
If you wanna tell me that Jayden Daniels is a more seasoned passer (than Lamar) coming out, I can agree... but Lamar had/has a big arm. It wasn't inferior to JD's. Also, Daniels didn't flourish until he was in a good situation at LSU. I like the prospect, and have him as my #2 QB, but that's the reality. I do agree with the LSU part, and that is concerning. But Daniels dual threat ability still will be there irregardless of the weapons around him. If the O-line can be at least average, I think that will generate enough time to extend plays with his legs and run for the 1st down when receivers are covered. When that happens, defenses in-game start to prioritize stopping the run with Daniels, which in theory should help the receivers get open more in shorter durations of time. Yeah, overall, I don't remember a better dual-thread prospect coming out of college football. He's a better passer at the same stage than Lamar/Vick but I'd give the nod to the latter when it comes to the running game, despite his obvious ability there.
|
|
|
Post by wazzu on Apr 19, 2024 12:40:53 GMT -5
I do agree with the LSU part, and that is concerning. But Daniels dual threat ability still will be there irregardless of the weapons around him. If the O-line can be at least average, I think that will generate enough time to extend plays with his legs and run for the 1st down when receivers are covered. When that happens, defenses in-game start to prioritize stopping the run with Daniels, which in theory should help the receivers get open more in shorter durations of time. Yeah, overall, I don't remember a better dual-thread prospect coming out of college football. He's a better passer at the same stage than Lamar/Vick but I'd give the nod to the latter when it comes to the running game, despite his obvious ability there. I agree. The numbers that this guy put up at LSU were really pretty staggering. Honestly he would be a pretty damn good constellation prize if New England misses out on Drake Maye. Really the only thing holding me back with him is his extremely slight physique. But seeing as how the element of violence has been all but removed from the NFL, that’s not nearly the issue that it once was
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Apr 19, 2024 13:10:10 GMT -5
Yeah, overall, I don't remember a better dual-thread prospect coming out of college football. He's a better passer at the same stage than Lamar/Vick but I'd give the nod to the latter when it comes to the running game, despite his obvious ability there. I agree. The numbers that this guy put up at LSU were really pretty staggering. Honestly he would be a pretty damn good constellation prize if New England misses out on Drake Maye. Really the only thing holding me back with him is his extremely slight physique. But seeing as how the element of violence has been all but removed from the NFL, that’s not nearly the issue that it once was Interesting that how many here see the QBs very differently. MB has Maye last in his list, and you see to have him #2, assuming Williams is #1. Regardless, we should shoot for the stars!
|
|
|
Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 19, 2024 13:25:40 GMT -5
I agree. The numbers that this guy put up at LSU were really pretty staggering. Honestly he would be a pretty damn good constellation prize if New England misses out on Drake Maye. Really the only thing holding me back with him is his extremely slight physique. But seeing as how the element of violence has been all but removed from the NFL, that’s not nearly the issue that it once was Interesting that how many here see the QBs very differently. MB has Maye last in his list, and you see to have him #2, assuming Williams is #1. Regardless, we should shoot for the stars! For me it's a preference thing, as I don't honestly see a ton of separation between the top 5-6 QB's in this class. None look like can't miss, generational types, and all are pretty close in terms of skill and ability. So, it comes down to, who do I like most? I give JJ the nod, because of his youth, efficiency, athleticism and being a winner, going back to HS. Sure, you can say it's not all him, but his teams win, and win championships, and I want that in my QB. I think he's still developing as a QB, so there's meat left on the bone, but I also like the floor.
|
|
|
Post by muzwell on Apr 19, 2024 13:43:56 GMT -5
Daniels to me, and this is just based on highlights (and the first game of the season last year) is not like Lamar. Much thinner and not as fast or as quick and without the vision (as a runner). He’s a good runner but Lamar is way beyond good as a runner. I could be misremembering, but I’ve never seen Lamar get blown up like Daniels. Even to this day.
It almost looks like Daniels is running and forgets where he is at times and then he gets crushed. It’s reminiscent of Brandin Cooks in the Super Bowl. Lamar has slowed down a little recently but he’s still a better runner than Daniels.
As a passer, he might be a bit more accurate at this point than Lamar was but Lamar was no slouch at Louisville either.
I don’t know, the more I look at these quarterbacks the more I want Joe Alt.
|
|
|
Post by wazzu on Apr 19, 2024 13:48:40 GMT -5
If they really want to smokescreen they should tell everyone that will listen they want MHJ. I believe teams that really want to draft him will offer “the bag” to NE to get him. AZ has the 4 &27 but don’t think NE will select him, but what if they did? How bad do they want him? Ok, I gotta ask. What the hell does “the bag” mean and where did that saying even come from?
|
|
|
Post by wonderdrums on Apr 19, 2024 13:51:13 GMT -5
If they really want to smokescreen they should tell everyone that will listen they want MHJ. I believe teams that really want to draft him will offer “the bag” to NE to get him. AZ has the 4 &27 but don’t think NE will select him, but what if they did? How bad do they want him? Ok, I gotta ask. What the hell does “the bag” mean and where did that saying even come from? New head coach Jerod Mayo told reporters earlier this week the Patriots would consider trading the No. 3 pick if someone "offers a bag." In other words, "a lot of first-round picks." www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/patriots-trade-down-2024-nfl-draft/599170/?amp=1
|
|