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Post by seawolf on Jan 17, 2018 10:34:49 GMT -5
Minority Steeler Owners' want him fired.
do you think he should be?
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Jan 17, 2018 10:37:25 GMT -5
No... He should stay there as long as possible. I don't want any chance of them getting a better coach. He's perfect. He is one who gives them hope every year, but cannot finish the job. That makes PIT a perfect foe for the Pats.
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 10:41:57 GMT -5
Post by pauldeba on Jan 17, 2018 10:41:57 GMT -5
I'd like to see the reaction of exploding ESPN heads and national fake media if Belichick had said this:
“Man, I’m going to embrace the elephant in the room: It’s going to be fireworks,” he said. “It’s probably going to be part one, and that’s going to be a big game. But probably, if we’re both doing what we’re supposed to do, the second one is really going to be big. And what happens in the first is going to set up the second one, and determine the location in the second one.”
The game will pit the Patriots, currently the second seed in the AFC, against the Steelers, for now the No. 1 seed, on Dec. 17 in Pittsburgh. Which means that’s quite an elephant he’s hugging. But he believes in his guys.
“Oh, we can win it all. We should win it all. I sense that about the group,” he told Dungy. “In terms of talent, in terms of having enough competition, depth, I think we check all those boxes. But checking the boxes doesn’t run the race.”
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Post by patseng on Jan 17, 2018 10:42:08 GMT -5
As a Pats fan I would agree with Seattle. He is great for the Pats as Pits HC. From a non Pats fan perspective he is a terrible coach with a extremely talented team. He's basically Tyronn Lue, the talent on the team hides his inability to coach but add a little controversy and add some resistance against that talent and the inefficiencies in coaching becoming glaringly obvious
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 10:51:34 GMT -5
Post by croc on Jan 17, 2018 10:51:34 GMT -5
He's viewed about as highly in Pgh as BB is here. Not a chance he's being fired...yeah!
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Post by seawolf on Jan 17, 2018 11:56:47 GMT -5
I said during the game he should be fired His teams play down to the competition He doesn't get them ready to play Bradsha said he was a Cheerleader Big Ben has ripped him , but hey he puts everyone under the bus
Our friends that moved from ESPN to FXsports1 Said it would be coz of his race , no white would be fired
Hmm - Coughlin - Giants 2SBs, Gruden Tampa Bay with 1 SB and then Shottenhiemer 14-2 and Not fired Hue Jackson 1-31 Marvin Lewis and his dysfunctional mess
Please - Am not trying to turn this into a political discussion just an observation on what they said And how things are put through anyone's Politically Correct prism , which yields sub optimal results
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nyc
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 12:29:07 GMT -5
Post by nyc on Jan 17, 2018 12:29:07 GMT -5
It's not about race, it's about results.
He's not the top coach in the NFL but he has produced results: consistently fielded good teams year after year in the top 20% of the league, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win.
Another question: who would you replace him with that you could guarantee would be better?
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Post by mthurl on Jan 17, 2018 12:30:53 GMT -5
I hope they never fire his guy because it doesn't matter how much talent he has to work with, he'll always screw it up.
And what a damn fool he made of himself this season...that interview with Dungy?? My lord! I got secondary embarrassment just watching it. What a year he's had, first there was the Brown locker room fiasco last playoffs, then that interview, the meltdown, his players acting like morons. And he endorses it! He defends it! He did it two days ago!
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 12:46:32 GMT -5
Post by patseng on Jan 17, 2018 12:46:32 GMT -5
It's not about race, it's about results. He's not the top coach in the NFL but he has produced results: consistently fielded good teams year after year in the top 20% of the league, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win. Another question: who would you replace him with that you could guarantee would be better? Anyone that understands during a review time out maybe you should prepare your team for two plays just in case it gets reversed instead of praying the review goes your way. Or one that on 4th and 1 let's your 6'6" 280lb QB who is 18 of 19 in QB sneaks in a playoff game get the first down? The question isn't the results, the question is was it his doing or the talent on the team getting the results and he's just riding the coat tails behind. There are ample examples of times he has hurt his team but I'm having a hard time coming up with moments you can say he coached them to a win. I know it's unfair to compare any team to the Pats coaching success wise but there are a handful of games this year alone that you can point to the coaching being a major factor in Pats wins (The heads up preparation in the Pit win, getting the FG team on the field in less than 8s to get a FG, half time adjustments) but I can't really think of a time when you look at a Pit win and say coaching was why they won that game. I will give Tomlin credit in that he knows how to manage ego's in the locker room and to talk up his guys against lower competition but that can only last so long as you win. When you find a hump you can't get over that when the wheels come off (See Rex with Jets). To me Tomlin is basically Rex Ryan with a much more talented team
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nyc
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 14:40:39 GMT -5
Post by nyc on Jan 17, 2018 14:40:39 GMT -5
It's not about race, it's about results. He's not the top coach in the NFL but he has produced results: consistently fielded good teams year after year in the top 20% of the league, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win. Another question: who would you replace him with that you could guarantee would be better? Anyone that understands during a review time out maybe you should prepare your team for two plays just in case it gets reversed instead of praying the review goes your way. Or one that on 4th and 1 let's your 6'6" 280lb QB who is 18 of 19 in QB sneaks in a playoff game get the first down? The question isn't the results, the question is was it his doing or the talent on the team getting the results and he's just riding the coat tails behind. There are ample examples of times he has hurt his team but I'm having a hard time coming up with moments you can say he coached them to a win. I know it's unfair to compare any team to the Pats coaching success wise but there are a handful of games this year alone that you can point to the coaching being a major factor in Pats wins (The heads up preparation in the Pit win, getting the FG team on the field in less than 8s to get a FG, half time adjustments) but I can't really think of a time when you look at a Pit win and say coaching was why they won that game. I will give Tomlin credit in that he knows how to manage ego's in the locker room and to talk up his guys against lower competition but that can only last so long as you win. When you find a hump you can't get over that when the wheels come off (See Rex with Jets). To me Tomlin is basically Rex Ryan with a much more talented team Tomlin isn't great but he has kept the team together. That means a lot. Many organizations in the NFL are dysfunctional, not Pitt. Head coach needs to be steady, promote the team vision. He does. Head coaches always have a role in selecting talent even when there is a GM. Pitt has continuously found great talent even in lower rounds. Tomlin has played some role in that, I'm sure. Furthermore, who would you replace him with? Where is the stock of future great NFL coaches? Even Sabin had a hard time in Miami and he is a college football God. The Giants got rid of Coughlin (good, not great coach) and the Chargers got rid of Marty Schottenheimer (also good, not great). What happened then? Both organizations struggled. So, I'd advise Pitt to hold on because the alternatives may be far worse.
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 15:21:24 GMT -5
Post by patseng on Jan 17, 2018 15:21:24 GMT -5
Anyone that understands during a review time out maybe you should prepare your team for two plays just in case it gets reversed instead of praying the review goes your way. Or one that on 4th and 1 let's your 6'6" 280lb QB who is 18 of 19 in QB sneaks in a playoff game get the first down? The question isn't the results, the question is was it his doing or the talent on the team getting the results and he's just riding the coat tails behind. There are ample examples of times he has hurt his team but I'm having a hard time coming up with moments you can say he coached them to a win. I know it's unfair to compare any team to the Pats coaching success wise but there are a handful of games this year alone that you can point to the coaching being a major factor in Pats wins (The heads up preparation in the Pit win, getting the FG team on the field in less than 8s to get a FG, half time adjustments) but I can't really think of a time when you look at a Pit win and say coaching was why they won that game. I will give Tomlin credit in that he knows how to manage ego's in the locker room and to talk up his guys against lower competition but that can only last so long as you win. When you find a hump you can't get over that when the wheels come off (See Rex with Jets). To me Tomlin is basically Rex Ryan with a much more talented team Tomlin isn't great but he has kept the team together. That means a lot. Many organizations in the NFL are dysfunctional, not Pitt. Head coach needs to be steady, promote the team vision. He does. Head coaches always have a role in selecting talent even when there is a GM. Pitt has continuously found great talent even in lower rounds. Tomlin has played some role in that, I'm sure. Furthermore, who would you replace him with? Where is the stock of future great NFL coaches? Even Sabin had a hard time in Miami and he is a college football God. The Giants got rid of Coughlin (good, not great coach) and the Chargers got rid of Marty Schottenheimer (also good, not great). What happened then? Both organizations struggled. So, I'd advise Pitt to hold on because the alternatives may be far worse. You can directly point to 2 specific cases this year that have cost them both the #1 seed and an early exit in the playoffs due to his coaching decisions. Yes, he kept his team together to this point (there is bad news rumbling out of that locker room right now) and honestly I have no clue how much input he has on bringing guys in (but you are right Pit has consistently been good are drafting guys) but if he's not getting it done and costing the team at the worst times then a change is needed. A Boston analogy would be John Farrell or Claude Julien. You can say the same for both of them as you did Tomlin but ultimately both needed to go as nether was good enough to overcome their coaching deficiencies to provide consistent results. I heard plenty say who do you replace Julien with, and where the great stock of NHL coaches is but I doubt a single person who said that would rather Julien over Cassidy right now. Not every coach is going to win championships but if the coaching deficiencies are the reasons why you are getting knocked out early then you can't expect to hold on to your job forever
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 15:24:58 GMT -5
Tomlin sucks. But the football world also sucks because they think the steelers are loaded with talent. They have an overpaid WR and RB. That doesn't equate to loaded with talent.
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nyc
3rd String but playing on Special Teams
Posts: 880
Likes: 446
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 15:34:39 GMT -5
Post by nyc on Jan 17, 2018 15:34:39 GMT -5
Tomlin isn't great but he has kept the team together. That means a lot. Many organizations in the NFL are dysfunctional, not Pitt. Head coach needs to be steady, promote the team vision. He does. Head coaches always have a role in selecting talent even when there is a GM. Pitt has continuously found great talent even in lower rounds. Tomlin has played some role in that, I'm sure. Furthermore, who would you replace him with? Where is the stock of future great NFL coaches? Even Sabin had a hard time in Miami and he is a college football God. The Giants got rid of Coughlin (good, not great coach) and the Chargers got rid of Marty Schottenheimer (also good, not great). What happened then? Both organizations struggled. So, I'd advise Pitt to hold on because the alternatives may be far worse. You can directly point to 2 specific cases this year that have cost them both the #1 seed and an early exit in the playoffs due to his coaching decisions. Yes, he kept his team together to this point (there is bad news rumbling out of that locker room right now) and honestly I have no clue how much input he has on bringing guys in (but you are right Pit has consistently been good are drafting guys) but if he's not getting it done and costing the team at the worst times then a change is needed. A Boston analogy would be John Farrell or Claude Julien. You can say the same for both of them as you did Tomlin but ultimately both needed to go as nether was good enough to overcome their coaching deficiencies to provide consistent results. I heard plenty say who do you replace Julien with, and where the great stock of NHL coaches is but I doubt a single person who said that would rather Julien over Cassidy right now. Not every coach is going to win championships but if the coaching deficiencies are the reasons why you are getting knocked out early then you can't expect to hold on to your job forever Eng So, who would you advise Pitt to choose over Tomlin? It's one thing to complain about his well known short comings, but it's far more helpful to propose a constructive solution that will be better than him. Failure at HC or GM positions is the norm in the NFL. Every year at least 20% of HC positions turn over! That's incredible! No industry has a failure rate like that. Stability is important for team growth.
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 16:39:11 GMT -5
Post by patseng on Jan 17, 2018 16:39:11 GMT -5
You can directly point to 2 specific cases this year that have cost them both the #1 seed and an early exit in the playoffs due to his coaching decisions. Yes, he kept his team together to this point (there is bad news rumbling out of that locker room right now) and honestly I have no clue how much input he has on bringing guys in (but you are right Pit has consistently been good are drafting guys) but if he's not getting it done and costing the team at the worst times then a change is needed. A Boston analogy would be John Farrell or Claude Julien. You can say the same for both of them as you did Tomlin but ultimately both needed to go as nether was good enough to overcome their coaching deficiencies to provide consistent results. I heard plenty say who do you replace Julien with, and where the great stock of NHL coaches is but I doubt a single person who said that would rather Julien over Cassidy right now. Not every coach is going to win championships but if the coaching deficiencies are the reasons why you are getting knocked out early then you can't expect to hold on to your job forever Eng So, who would you advise Pitt to choose over Tomlin? It's one thing to complain about his well known short comings, but it's far more helpful to propose a constructive solution that will be better than him. Failure at HC or GM positions is the norm in the NFL. Every year at least 20% of HC positions turn over! That's incredible! No industry has a failure rate like that. Stability is important for team growth. NYC, Celtics found Stevens after Rivers, Bruins found Cassidy after Julien and outside of biggest of diehards nether coach was well known. Just saying well you can't fire him because who will you replace him with is absolutely meaningless. Frankly I don't have to find someone better than him because I don't work for the Steelers but that doesn't mean that there isn't someone better than him that neither of us don't know about. Using your logic no team should ever fire any coach if they make the playoffs a handful of times in a decade for fear of running stability. What you are arguing can also be applied to Marvin Lewis or Coughlin (when he lost his Giants job) or Marty Schot or again with Boston connections Rivers, Farrell, or Julien. If you are a team that wants to win championships stability isn't always a luxury you can afford esp if that stability is one of the reasons you aren't winning a championship. But just out of curiousity do you think the Red Sox should have kept Farrell as HC or Bruins Julien? Btw, I don't ever plan on being helpful to the Steelers, you can apply for a job there if you like but not exactly what I want to do.
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 16:48:25 GMT -5
nyc likes this
Post by pcm4 on Jan 17, 2018 16:48:25 GMT -5
Minority Steeler Owners' want him fired. do you think he should be? No. Every coach in the AFC is going to look worse than they actually are because of Belichick. At the end of the day Tomlin stacks up pretty well to the rest of the league in regular season and playoff wins since he has been coach. It's not like his QB has been the paragon of health either. It's true that his teams often lose games they shouldn't by playing down to their level of competition. It's also true that the Steelers have a pretty good front office so the cupboard is never empty, but I think people acting like if Tomlin was replaced that the Steelers would have a few more Lombardis are kidding themselves. He's not Belichick, but no one is. The guy has won double digit games in 4 consecutive seasons and Hue Jackson is still a head coach. The idea that his seat is hot is pretty silly imo even if I think Tomlin totally f'ed up the Jax game.
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 18:36:12 GMT -5
Post by seawolf on Jan 17, 2018 18:36:12 GMT -5
Minority Steeler Owners' want him fired. do you think he should be? No. Every coach in the AFC is going to look worse than they actually are because of Belichick. At the end of the day Tomlin stacks up pretty well to the rest of the league in regular season and playoff wins since he has been coach. It's not like his QB has been the paragon of health either. It's true that his teams often lose games they shouldn't by playing down to their level of competition. It's also true that the Steelers have a pretty good front office so the cupboard is never empty, but I think people acting like if Tomlin was replaced that the Steelers would have a few more Lombardis are kidding themselves. He's not Belichick, but no one is. The guy has won double digit games in 4 consecutive seasons and Hue Jackson is still a head coach. The idea that his seat is hot is pretty silly imo even if I think Tomlin totally f'ed up the Jax game. All of your points are solid I had questions about him after he stuck his foot to drop a K returner He doesn't button up his player and get them focussed And he leads that by example Big Ben has tossed Tomlin under the bus about 7 times Seems he lost his qb, if not a lot of the team And what do I know? Just looks funny But those minority owners are reacting to somethng He took forever to get out of his zone with TB Year in and year out there have been mostly the same teams going for the SB And his record isn't any good with them So keep him, win a lot but never the big game? I will leave it at this Patriot fans dont want him fired **** At the same time I am looking cocked eyed at Sean Payton His antics on the side lines is God awful He also owns not coaching up his very very good but very aggressive rookie on that last MN play Yes the player has some responsibility, but Payton and the DC Failed And I feel sorry for that kid On another topic Am very interested in what happens to our Flores Lose Josh, Lose Patricia, got it, But this kid? Hope not
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 21:33:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by thejuice on Jan 17, 2018 21:33:30 GMT -5
He's an awful coach. Absolutely terrible. He's nothing but a glorified cheerleader. He won 2 titles with cowhers players. He should've been fired years ago. But please Pittsburgh stay stupid and keep him. As long as he's the coach, we'll never have to worry about them beating us.
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Tomlin
Jan 17, 2018 21:39:29 GMT -5
Post by nflpatsfan on Jan 17, 2018 21:39:29 GMT -5
To me Tomlin is basically Rex Ryan with a much more talented team And no known foot fetishes
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david
On the Practice Squad
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Tomlin
Jan 18, 2018 1:06:09 GMT -5
Post by david on Jan 18, 2018 1:06:09 GMT -5
And no known foot fetishes I don't know, but he does like to introduce his foot to those of opposing players running down the sidelines...
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Tomlin
Jan 18, 2018 3:32:38 GMT -5
Post by somar on Jan 18, 2018 3:32:38 GMT -5
I think he is a good HC, just not a particularly special one.
He makes some very questionable decisions quite often and has clear problems when it comes to discipline. Despite that he seems to be liked by the players which is important.
Trying to look at it as if I was a Steelers fan, I would say, while i wouldn't be against keeping him, I also think a change would be beneficial for them at this point. When you're one of the biggest franchises in the league and have the talent they have, expections are high, as well they should be, and Tomlin hasn't delivered results for a long time, he has the wins, but when you're already a top team, you want the titles to match.
Sometimes, even when a HC is good, things just don't seem to work out and parting ways might be the best for everyone involved.
The Steelers get a fresh face with new ideas, and Tomlin keeps his reputation intact and will probably find another HC job elsewhere easily.
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Tomlin
Jan 18, 2018 10:29:16 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by thejuice on Jan 18, 2018 10:29:16 GMT -5
I think he is a good HC, just not a particularly special one. He makes some very questionable decisions quite often and has clear problems when it comes to discipline. Despite that he seems to be liked by the players which is important. Trying to look at it as if I was a Steelers fan, I would say, while i wouldn't be against keeping him, I also think a change would be beneficial for them at this point. When you're one of the biggest franchises in the league and have the talent they have, expections are high, as well they should be, and Tomlin hasn't delivered results for a long time, he has the wins, but when you're already a top team, you want the titles to match. Sometimes, even when a HC is good, things just don't seem to work out and parting ways might be the best for everyone involved. The Steelers get a fresh face with new ideas, and Tomlin keeps his reputation intact and will probably find another HC job elsewhere easily. How can someone that makes very questionable decisions, quite often, be a good head coach? Simple answer. He can't
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Tomlin
Jan 18, 2018 10:33:41 GMT -5
Post by muzwell on Jan 18, 2018 10:33:41 GMT -5
He's an awful coach. Absolutely terrible. He's nothing but a glorified cheerleader. He won 2 titles with cowhers players. He should've been fired years ago. But please Pittsburgh stay stupid and keep him. As long as he's the coach, we'll never have to worry about them beating us. He won one SB, 2008 over AZ. Lost in 2010 to GBay.
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Tomlin
Jan 18, 2018 10:47:08 GMT -5
Post by croc on Jan 18, 2018 10:47:08 GMT -5
He makes some boneheaded decisions on the field. His men, reportedly love playing for him. Both are considerations. Pittsburgh has a tradition of little coaching turn over. My guess is it would take a major scandal (an actual scandal, not an ESPN hatchet job) for Tomlin to be fired.
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Post by pauldeba on Jan 18, 2018 10:54:59 GMT -5
Patriots should vote Tomlin as the team MVP this year.
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Tomlin
Jan 18, 2018 13:03:42 GMT -5
Post by olemiss on Jan 18, 2018 13:03:42 GMT -5
I do not think he is a good strategic thinker, nor judgment in the clutch. That said, team seems comfortable with him, they strut their stuff freely, and he does draft well over the years.
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