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Post by prolate0spheroid on May 1, 2016 12:56:44 GMT -5
I don't think you want the back up QB to play ever, especially if your starter is a HOFer. That doesn't mean that the back-up is a waste or a bad acquisition. You can't predict when the HOFer will have his knee blown out and the back-up will therefore be asked to carry the team for the rest of the season.
Every team needs a high-quality back-up QB. You don't want to blow a whole season just because you have no good contingency plan if your starter goes down.
I don't think you can compare back-up at QB to back-up at any other position. The QB is simply too important.
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Post by patseng on May 1, 2016 13:04:13 GMT -5
So Pro would you rather:
Cassel/Hoyer
or
Mallet/O'Connell/Garp
as backups
Yes you need a good QB but imo they have proven they can find good QBs late in the draft. They have yet to prove you can find one early in the Pats system. So no I don't think they need to spend early to get a good backup. It's like having a $200k insurance policy on a Toyota Matrix. You just don't need that much
Edit: No Brady isn't a Matrix just saying spending a day 2 pick when you've proven late day 3 picks have been just as good is a bit high when you could find a starter in that range easier than you can find one in the back of the draft
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Post by prolate0spheroid on May 1, 2016 13:45:26 GMT -5
I think that's too simplistic, Eng. As I've said before, I think BB prefers to have a back-up QB who:
1. Can be that emergency QB if Brady gets hurt in a game, for a stretch of games, or for the season and 2. Has the potential at least to become a long-term replacement for Brady should Brady's career end either expectedly or unexpectedly
I think that's one reason BB hasn't been big on veteran back ups as Brady has aged. Veterans usually have already realized their potential. Those guys are usually nothing more than back-ups and will never be starters. So BB likes to draft young developmental QBs who may prove after coaching to have the ability to become starters. He'll use higher picks on those he thinks have more potential. The key to understanding what BB is doing, though, is to realize that he's not just looking for an emergency fill in. He's looking for someone who, with some work, may eventually be good enough to be a starter. Once he decides the guy doesn't have that potential, he'll let him go and move on to the next one. But his goal isn't just to get a back-up. It's to get a guy and test his potential to maybe become the next starter.
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Post by mthurl on May 1, 2016 14:08:45 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of this draft, I understand that we were picking low...I understand our first round pick was stolen from us, but still I didn't care for it.
The corner they selected in the second doesn't look good to me. The offensive lineman - from everything I've read - doesn't really have bulk. And the receiver from Georgia doesn't look like he can separate - he is always catching balls that are contested because the corner is right in his hip pocket. Keep in mind that Chandler Jones - who was our best pass rusher - is a part of the equation that brought us some of these players.
Having said that, every single one of the players that I don't like may turn out to be excellent picks. Malcolm Mitchell may turn into a 70 catch a year guy with Brady...his recovery from his knee injury may get better and better. Kamu may be the next Rodney Harrison. Lucien may be the steal of this draft (and I actually like him better than Mitchell anyway).
No one knows. No one. Not us, not Belichick, not the draft experts. It's a crap shoot. And I hate it when some of these GM's say...we know more than you (when they defend their picks and explain why they didn't pick the guy you liked). I find that funny because, did they At riots know better than us when they selected Easley? Did they know better when they selected Hernandez and then paid him a 40 million dollar contract 4 years later? Did they know more when they selected Rasi Dowling, or Tavon Wilson? My point is nobody knows. But I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of this draft, but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm totally wrong either.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 14:12:24 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of this draft, I understand that we were picking low...I understand our first round pick was stolen from us, but still I didn't care for it. The corner they selected in the second doesn't look good to me. The offensive lineman - from everything I've read - doesn't really have bulk. And the receiver from Georgia doesn't look like he can separate - he is always catching balls that are contested because the corner is right in his hip pocket. Keep in mind that Chandler Jones - who was our best pass rusher - is a part of the equation that brought us some of these players. Having said that, every single one of the players that I don't like may turn out to be excellent picks. Malcolm Mitchell may turn into a 70 catch a year guy with Brady...his recovery from his knee injury may get better and better. Kamu may be the next Rodney Harrison. Lucien may be the steal of this draft (and I actually like him better than Mitchell anyway). No one knows. No one. Not us, not Belichick, not the draft experts. It's a crap shoot. And I hate it when some of these GM's say...we know more than you (when they defend their picks and explain why they didn't pick the guy you liked). I find that funny because, did they At riots know better than us when they selected Easley? Did they know better when they selected Hernandez and then paid him a 40 million dollar contract 4 years later? Did they know more when they selected Rasi Dowling, or Tavon Wilson? My point is nobody knows. But I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of this draft, but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm totally wrong either. I read that Thuney is a good blocker. With Dante back in the fold I expect he did some evaluation and I trust his eye far more than BB's.
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APpats21
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Post by APpats21 on May 1, 2016 14:13:56 GMT -5
I don't like them passing on the back and letting Denver taking him. Once again belichick drafts a guy in an earlier round that could have been picked a round or two later. . I wish he would stop drafting guys like Tavon Wilson in the second round. He probably would have available as an udfa that year. Love him as a coach and GM except for his drafting. He gets some good ones like gronk and Collins but he wastes more picks than any team I've ever seen. This is often said about nearly every draft by BB. I've said it once or twice myself. However, we need to remember that the Pats aren't drafting anyone they think will still be there later in the draft. Well, I suppose they do sometimes if they don't want to accept the risk of losing someone. Moral to the story is that if they take a guy in the 2nd round it's because they have a 2nd round or above grade on him. If they take a player in the 3rd round it's because they have a 3rd round or above grade on him. If the Pats have these grades do we know other teams do not? How do we really know what grade a player has by all teams? All us fans can go by are the so-called draft experts. Don't know how accurate that is. History suggests that sometimes they do indeed draft a guy too high. History also tells us sometimes the Pats are right and the draft experts are wrong (hello Vollmer). He was more disruptive in 2014. It's one of those things where the stats don't tell all the truth. Wilfork did a lot better than his number would suggest. It's like that with lineman. Supposedly his 2015 year was held back by ongoing ankle issues so we'll see how healthy he comes in and hopefully with better stamina.
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Post by mthurl on May 1, 2016 14:15:55 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of this draft, I understand that we were picking low...I understand our first round pick was stolen from us, but still I didn't care for it. The corner they selected in the second doesn't look good to me. The offensive lineman - from everything I've read - doesn't really have bulk. And the receiver from Georgia doesn't look like he can separate - he is always catching balls that are contested because the corner is right in his hip pocket. Keep in mind that Chandler Jones - who was our best pass rusher - is a part of the equation that brought us some of these players. Having said that, every single one of the players that I don't like may turn out to be excellent picks. Malcolm Mitchell may turn into a 70 catch a year guy with Brady...his recovery from his knee injury may get better and better. Kamu may be the next Rodney Harrison. Lucien may be the steal of this draft (and I actually like him better than Mitchell anyway). No one knows. No one. Not us, not Belichick, not the draft experts. It's a crap shoot. And I hate it when some of these GM's say...we know more than you (when they defend their picks and explain why they didn't pick the guy you liked). I find that funny because, did they At riots know better than us when they selected Easley? Did they know better when they selected Hernandez and then paid him a 40 million dollar contract 4 years later? Did they know more when they selected Rasi Dowling, or Tavon Wilson? My point is nobody knows. But I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of this draft, but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm totally wrong either. I read that Thuney is a good blocker. With Dante back in the fold I expect he did some evaluation and I trust his eye far more than BB's. Well I hope so, but keep in mind he also loves Cannon...great coach, but I don't know if picking players are his thing.
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Post by muzwell on May 1, 2016 14:49:30 GMT -5
Regardless, he has been a good insurance policy. Has he? How could you know what quality of insurance policy he would be if you don't know how good he is? Well, it's insurance, you don't know until it's time to use it. You hope it's a good policy and it pays off quick with little hassle. So, you do your homework and buy a policy that you can afford from a company that you think is reliable. Insurance is just a cost of doing business. You can go cheap on your insurance and get a crappy policy and just pray you never have to rely on it, or you can pay a bit more and feel pretty good that if the poop hits the fan, you're in good hands...
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fanonymous
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Post by fanonymous on May 1, 2016 15:07:07 GMT -5
it's important that Jones is the real deal ... if he can be reliable and dangerous as a returner, then he's a win and can grow into coverage responsibilities as the season progresses as far as I'm concerned ( just help keep JE11 & DA80 healthy )
Thuney needs to be better than Wendell
Valentine has to show significant promise during training camp and pre-season ... need to get young and tough in the middle of the line
would be nice to see Mitchell add something different to the receiving corps
we are totally spoiled with Brady, so the Brissett pick does nothing for me ... there had to be a better player available
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fanonymous
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Post by fanonymous on May 1, 2016 15:10:03 GMT -5
oh, and essentially trading useless 6th and 7th round picks for a 4th rounder in 2017 was vintage Belichick ( and perhaps some Karma wrt Goodell )
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Post by lowfbiq on May 1, 2016 16:07:29 GMT -5
Strong teams that end up with strong end of year records often don't have lots of their drafted players make their rosters. Just a quick look at the last 7 superbowl winners.
2015-16 Broncos - 6th and 7th Rd picks to make roster that yr = 0 of 4 (12-4 record) 2014-15 Patriots - 6th and 7th Rd picks to make the roster that yr = 0 of 4 (12-4 record) 2013-14 Seahawks - 6th and 7th Rd picks to make the roster that yr = 0 of 5 (13-3 record) 2012-13 Ravens - 6th and 7th Rd picks to make the roster that yr = 1 of 2 but a 4th & 5th Rd picks did not (10-6 record) 2011-12 Giants - 6th and 7th Rd picks to make the roster that yr = 4 of 4 (9-7 record) 9-7 record you can see why those picks has a chance to stick 2010-11 Packers - 6th and 7th Rd picks to make the roster that yr = 2 of 2 (10-6 record) 2009-10 Saints - 6th and 7th Rd picks to make the roster that yr = 0 of 0 (13-3 record) neither 4th Rd pick made it, no 2nd Rd pick
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 0:43:24 GMT -5
Has he? How could you know what quality of insurance policy he would be if you don't know how good he is? Well, it's insurance, you don't know until it's time to use it. You hope it's a good policy and it pays off quick with little hassle. So, you do your homework and buy a policy that you can afford from a company that you think is reliable. Insurance is just a cost of doing business. You can go cheap on your insurance and get a crappy policy and just pray you never have to rely on it, or you can pay a bit more and feel pretty good that if the poop hits the fan, you're in good hands... Too bad BB couldn't afford that insurance.
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