|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 30, 2016 17:51:39 GMT -5
Before voting, take into consideration the fact that we had no first rounder and that we were in the 29th slot.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 30, 2016 18:01:12 GMT -5
I'm going with "average to good." Hard to say there's anything here that's exceptional, but I think they made good use of the picks they had.
|
|
brewman
On the Practice Squad
Posts: 159
Likes: 52
|
Post by brewman on Apr 30, 2016 18:23:53 GMT -5
For now it looks decent. I was surprised they picked a couple guys that Mike Reiss had said he liked. It's usually impossible to guess who the Pats will take. The film I've seen on the internet from Malcolm Mitchell is impressive and from the story they ran this morning on the NFL network about him(Before the Pats selected him) he's an even better person. I try not to judge drafts for a couple years but I'd say with the NFL stealing our first round pick we made out well. Also swung a couple deals to get a 4th rounder back for next year.That's important as we're actually light on picks and probably won't be getting any compensatory picks next year.
|
|
|
Post by portfolio1 on Apr 30, 2016 18:27:24 GMT -5
I was optimistic in my rating:
1. Cy looks like a real possibility as a quality DB 2. Cy looks like a real possibility as a dangerous PR 3. Thuney looks like a very interesting IDEA! What I mean by that is he looks like with some Dante magic dust he might turn into a really good interior lineman rotation on passing downs. He could be a very good pass blocker for a C or G on either side. It has mostly been league wisdom not to platoon or rotate offensive linemen. We started to break that the last few years by rotating Canon at T to keep our starters fresh. That actually worked for a while but not last year. Injuries killed us (coaching didnt help). Not sure if Cannon was bad because he was playing hurt or just reached an early expiration date. I (WE) likely dont really know and wont till later this year. Hope it is more about injury. But I digress. The potential I see here is that Thuney could be a mid to late season rotation at G (more likely than C) as a pass blocker. Keeps everyone fresher and adds value when it is a passing down and we all know we are not running the ball and so pass blocking is even more at a premium. 4. Maybe this new QB will impress coaches enough to allow next off season trade of JG (though I like the guy and would not mind seeing him go to a second, team friendly contract with the Pats of the coaches like him. 5. Hoping that one of the late draft picks adds really good value on special teams. A S/LB tweener who is hungry has some potential there. 6. We added a 4th rounder next year. That has value even if we do not see it this year. 7. Hope against hope one of the WRs is actually a viable, decent player and not another body to discard this year or someday. 8. Valentine could be valuable if he is solid enough (by the last quarter of the season) to give good play spelling other big bodies to keep them all fresh. Bad play while resting others is not good value. You have to add play on the field. He might be able to do that for the big guys Branch and Brown.
|
|
hoyle
On the Game Day Roster
Posts: 554
Likes: 248
|
Post by hoyle on Apr 30, 2016 19:12:06 GMT -5
We selected a Nickle CB that was actually needed and a couple of Guards for competition. Both Line backers where picked for Special teams / depth options and may not even make the team. A developmental QB -WR -DT all will be on the 53 man roster or PUP . If they get 3 starters it's a A+ draft
|
|
APpats21
On the Practice Squad
Posts: 65
Likes: 10
|
Post by APpats21 on Apr 30, 2016 19:17:50 GMT -5
I think it was good. Had a tough time choosing but went with good to very good. I think at the minimum it was good just for the fact that each player seems like they can grab a role. Mitchell and Lucien were really nice picks at both points. I like the competition Roberts brings to the #4 LB spot (C'mon he really can't be worse than Freeny). Jones and Thuney look like they can challenge for playing time right away and possibly Valentine too if can get his stamina up and reverts to his 2014 self. Right now I say it's good. We'll just have to see how it all works out.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 30, 2016 19:21:35 GMT -5
I like a bunch of the picks:
1. Jones is a guy who I think will actually get a fair number of snaps this year. For a second rounder, that's good value. 2. Thuney—not quite sold on this guy, but I can also see him being a Mankins-like surprise. I'm okay with this. 3. Brissett—I really like this guy as a back-up for Garoppolo. He looks like someone who can protect the ball, which is probably what we want if Brady is suspended and Garoppolo gets hurt. He may be an interesting developmental player who takes the offense in a bit of a different direction. 4. Valentine—I have a feeling this guy's a bust. Don't know why. Just think he's not what we need. Hope I'm wrong and very well could be because I've never seen the kid play. It's purely a hunch. 5. Mitchell—think this guy could be the outside WR we've struggled to find. Of course, he's a fourth rounder and you can't ever expect much in that round, but this guy just sounds like good karma to me. 6. Grungier-Hill—this is the guy I expect to surprise. He's exactly the kind of player we need — sort of in-between a Collins and a Chung 7. Roberts—Patriots kind of guy from what I read. Does he have the talent, though, to make it? 8. Karras—Don't really see him making the team, but may make practice squad. This seems like a flier to me. 9. Lucian—a project, but a good project.
Finally, trade into next year: I always like moving up a round by delaying the pick a year. Good move there.
|
|
|
Post by kjfitone on Apr 30, 2016 19:59:33 GMT -5
I don't like them passing on the back and letting Denver taking him. Once again belichick drafts a guy in an earlier round that could have been picked a round or two later. .
I wish he would stop drafting guys like Tavon Wilson in the second round. He probably would have available as an udfa that year. Love him as a coach and GM except for his drafting. He gets some good ones like gronk and Collins but he wastes more picks than any team I've ever seen.
|
|
|
Post by paulk on Apr 30, 2016 20:17:08 GMT -5
If anybody goes wrong it's going to be Cyrus. I dislike puny backfielders because they always get injured early, and because of that they never develop into solid defensive backs.
The trading really made sense to me. Remember that the Patriots have by far the best scouting organization in the NFL, plus BB knows exactly what he wants and it's often quite different from what the other teams want. Trading down for an extra fourth rounder always makes sense when you know that you're generally picking the good fruit and they're sometimes picking the wormy fruit because they're blind.
Remember that Nick Caserio was complaining yesterday that the Pats had too many guys in camp. A monstrous volume of players were injured last year and they're all coming back. Then BB went out and signed a wall of fair-to-good players. Then the Pats still had 12 picks, or 88 players already in camp and no room to grab anything else the day after the draft. So, trading away two sixths and a seventh for one quality pick made sense in this case. However, trading that pick manufactured a nearly free fourth rounder to boot. In total, the Patriots got down to 85 players in camp and now they can pick better among hundreds of priority UDFAs, many of whom will target the Patriots as their best ticket to stardom and money. Let's say you have some NFL talent but it's rather limited, like Tully Banta-Cain for example. You come to New England, work here for a while and get hired away for way too much money simply because you have a Super Bowl ring and a resume.
I like the QB so far, tall and highly intelligent, hits medium range passes, also a bit hard to tackle because he's heavy and somewhat elusive.
I like the defensive tackle, fat, strong, handles double teams, gorilla arms.
I like the guard/tackle/center because he plays all positions and he's quite intelligent, in the Belichick mold.
The sixth rounders are probably picked because they'll drop through to the practice squad. We'll mainly see them in 2017. Meh.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 30, 2016 20:23:49 GMT -5
Jones isn't "puny." He's 5-10 but he weighs more than both the 5-11 Butler and the 5-11 Ryan. He's just slightly short, but he's a relatively beefy corner.
|
|
|
Post by zenape on Apr 30, 2016 20:47:34 GMT -5
This draft had far more to do with 2017 than 2016. I suspect some of these guys after a full year of supervised strength training and conditioning, as well as a year getting reps here and there and being exposed to/learning the playbook, will become starters in 2017 when they will be better players and we let some guys go because of contracts. Think of this as a depth and long term thinking draft, and considering the amount of players we currently have on the roster, as well as close to 20 players returning from injury, it was the wise choice on BB's part. Drafting immediate impact players starting from the back of the second round was never really a serious expectation, and also an unnecessary one.
|
|
|
Post by jri37 on Apr 30, 2016 20:58:14 GMT -5
This draft had far more to do with 2017 than 2016. I suspect some of these guys after a full year of supervised strength training and conditioning, as well as a year getting reps here and there and being exposed to/learning the playbook, will become starters in 2017 when they will be better players and we let some guys go because of contracts. Think of this as a depth and long term thinking draft, and considering the amount of players we currently have on the roster, as well as close to 20 players returning from injury, it was the wise choice on BB's part. Drafting immediate impact players starting from the back of the second round was never really a serious expectation, and also an unnecessary one. Agree 100%... the 53 man roster for 2016 is set except for a couple of positions to add depth/supplement. As of right now they only have 30 players under contract for 2017.
|
|
|
Post by digger0862 on Apr 30, 2016 21:48:56 GMT -5
Can I see them play before I vote? Or am I being uncooperative?
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 30, 2016 21:53:40 GMT -5
Can I see them play before I vote? Or am I being uncooperative? Hah...BB didn't have that luxury.
|
|
|
Post by muzwell on Apr 30, 2016 22:15:52 GMT -5
We got Mongo's great nephew!
How could it be a bad draft?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 23:39:24 GMT -5
I think it was good. Had a tough time choosing but went with good to very good. I think at the minimum it was good just for the fact that each player seems like they can grab a role. Mitchell and Lucien were really nice picks at both points. I like the competition Roberts brings to the #4 LB spot (C'mon he really can't be worse than Freeny). Jones and Thuney look like they can challenge for playing time right away and possibly Valentine too if can get his stamina up and reverts to his 2014 self. Right now I say it's good. We'll just have to see how it all works out. So you think Valentine had a better 2014 than 2015? In 2014, he played 12 games, during which he accumulated 20 solo tackles, 6.5 for loss In 2015, he played 7 games. He accumulated 6 solo tackles, 4 for loss He had 3 sacks on both 2014 and 2015 seasons.
I guess if you really want to focus on the bright side, he is getting more efficient on the TFLs and sacks
|
|
|
Post by carawaydj on May 1, 2016 2:30:02 GMT -5
I don't like them passing on the back and letting Denver taking him. Once again belichick drafts a guy in an earlier round that could have been picked a round or two later. . I wish he would stop drafting guys like Tavon Wilson in the second round. He probably would have available as an udfa that year. Love him as a coach and GM except for his drafting. He gets some good ones like gronk and Collins but he wastes more picks than any team I've ever seen. This is often said about nearly every draft by BB. I've said it once or twice myself. However, we need to remember that the Pats aren't drafting anyone they think will still be there later in the draft. Well, I suppose they do sometimes if they don't want to accept the risk of losing someone. Moral to the story is that if they take a guy in the 2nd round it's because they have a 2nd round or above grade on him. If they take a player in the 3rd round it's because they have a 3rd round or above grade on him. If the Pats have these grades do we know other teams do not? How do we really know what grade a player has by all teams? All us fans can go by are the so-called draft experts. Don't know how accurate that is. History suggests that sometimes they do indeed draft a guy too high. History also tells us sometimes the Pats are right and the draft experts are wrong (hello Vollmer).
|
|
|
Post by ATJ on May 1, 2016 5:21:45 GMT -5
I consider this to be what I would characterize as a 'strategic' draft. As others have indicated it is a depth and projects draft with the long term in mind, with the possible exception of C. Jones and possibly Thuney.
I realize that this is not a particular popular thing to post (unless of course you're a homer like me) but I find it difficult to believe that with the level of sophistication in the Pats organization's scouting and personnel selection operation that the Pats don't know what they are doing. The draft is an imprecise process and they're going to miss on occasion (as some have so adroitly pointed out). I'll wait and see.
I can't assign a grade but I consider this to be a good draft, particularly in light of their lack of a 1st rounder.
|
|
|
Post by ATJ on May 1, 2016 5:38:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on May 1, 2016 6:10:04 GMT -5
I think Jones and Mitchel are locks barring injury and they show well in camp.
Jones seems to be a ball hawk watching you tube highlights, and should be able to step into returner roles
Mitchel seemingly slipped due to his knee, but could be the last push for Danny leaving. LaFell-esque type WR imo
Thuney seems like as PS player this year as does Brisett.
Velentine does not have much on You Tube that seems impressive
Good thing is not a lot of spots open...but I really see 1-2 players drafted sticking, with some PS depth as well.
What does that grade out as? do they get an "A" for finding a slot CB and PR?
|
|
dfitzp
On the Practice Squad
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
|
Post by dfitzp on May 1, 2016 6:10:51 GMT -5
I think the Pats were trying to get a few guys with some nastiness on the OL with Thuney and Karass. Also love the signing of UDFA DJ Foster, I think he makes the team.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on May 1, 2016 6:35:56 GMT -5
I don't like them passing on the back and letting Denver taking him. Once again belichick drafts a guy in an earlier round that could have been picked a round or two later. . I wish he would stop drafting guys like Tavon Wilson in the second round. He probably would have available as an udfa that year. Love him as a coach and GM except for his drafting. He gets some good ones like gronk and Collins but he wastes more picks than any team I've ever seen. This is often said about nearly every draft by BB. I've said it once or twice myself. However, we need to remember that the Pats aren't drafting anyone they think will still be there later in the draft. Well, I suppose they do sometimes if they don't want to accept the risk of losing someone. Moral to the story is that if they take a guy in the 2nd round it's because they have a 2nd round or above grade on him. If they take a player in the 3rd round it's because they have a 3rd round or above grade on him. If the Pats have these grades do we know other teams do not? How do we really know what grade a player has by all teams? All us fans can go by are the so-called draft experts. Don't know how accurate that is. History suggests that sometimes they do indeed draft a guy too high. History also tells us sometimes the Pats are right and the draft experts are wrong (hello Vollmer). We know everything Caraway . . . because Mel Kiper told us.
|
|
baffle
On the Practice Squad
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
|
Post by baffle on May 1, 2016 7:18:00 GMT -5
I was hoping for more exciting prospects for pass rush and running back. 2 areas of need that I don't think are fully addressed with the current roster. A lot of things can still happen... free agents, scheme change, development, and return to health. Other than that, I think we have material to sculpt on special teams and depth.
|
|
|
Post by jri37 on May 1, 2016 7:25:19 GMT -5
I like a bunch of the picks: 1. Jones is a guy who I think will actually get a fair number of snaps this year. For a second rounder, that's good value. 2. Thuney—not quite sold on this guy, but I can also see him being a Mankins-like surprise. I'm okay with this. 3. Brissett—I really like this guy as a back-up for Garoppolo. He looks like someone who can protect the ball, which is probably what we want if Brady is suspended and Garoppolo gets hurt. He may be an interesting developmental player who takes the offense in a bit of a different direction. 4. Valentine—I have a feeling this guy's a bust. Don't know why. Just think he's not what we need. Hope I'm wrong and very well could be because I've never seen the kid play. It's purely a hunch. 5. Mitchell—think this guy could be the outside WR we've struggled to find. Of course, he's a fourth rounder and you can't ever expect much in that round, but this guy just sounds like good karma to me. 6. Grungier-Hill—this is the guy I expect to surprise. He's exactly the kind of player we need — sort of in-between a Collins and a Chung 7. Roberts—Patriots kind of guy from what I read. Does he have the talent, though, to make it? 8. Karras—Don't really see him making the team, but may make practice squad. This seems like a flier to me. 9. Lucian—a project, but a good project. Finally, trade into next year: I always like moving up a round by delaying the pick a year. Good move there. Yeah, my gut says you're right on Valentine also but it seems when motivated and in shape the kid can be a force. Seems like they rolled the dice that putting him in an environment where hard work and dedication is expected they might get a steal. IMO based on where they drafted him this kid is the biggest gamble of the draft class.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on May 1, 2016 8:00:09 GMT -5
I was hoping for more exciting prospects for pass rush and running back. 2 areas of need that I don't think are fully addressed with the current roster. A lot of things can still happen... free agents, scheme change, development, and return to health. Other than that, I think we have material to sculpt on special teams and depth. Good pass rushers tend to go early. I didn't have much hope we'd get a rusher this year. I thought we might do more with RB, but BB (and increasingly other GMs) seem to think RBs are mostly interchangeable commodities not worth spending much capital to acquire.
|
|