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Post by garytx on Apr 21, 2022 16:41:29 GMT -5
Sorry. I missing something. What are you talking about? is Tyreke Hill still Tyreke Hill if he loses a step or two? Eventually it will fade. Tom Brady will eventually fade too. |
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Apr 21, 2022 17:49:06 GMT -5
Surprised they chose to list Hardman over Slayton. Slayton drafted later (#171) has been better and many people think Hardman is a disappointment. College coaching really does some mind numbing shit, McLaurin caught 75 balls total in 4 years at Ohio State(barely used him till Sr. yr, still only had 35 catches his Sr yr.) How come they didn't list all of these guys... You can go through any draft, any team, any round, and hand pick guys who were drafted "after" other players who have better stats than the earlier picks. | Draft # | Team | Player | Rec's | Yds | Rec TD's | | 32 | Patriots | N'Keal Harry | 57 | 598 | 4 | | 57 | Eagles | JJ Arcega Whiteside | 16 | 290 | 1 | | 59 | Colts | Paris Campbell | 34 | 360 | 2 | | 62 | Cardinals | Andy Isabella | 31 | 426 | 3 | | 67 | 49ers
| Jalen Hurd | 0 | 0 | 0 | | 93 | Ravens | Miles Boykin | 33 | 470 | 7 | | 103 | Cardinals | Hakeem Butler | 0 | 0 | 0 | | 120 | Seahawks | Gary Jennings | 0 | 0 | 0 | | 126 | Bears | Riley Ridley | 10 | 108 | 0 | | UDFA | Patriots | Jakobi Meyers | 168 | 1954 | 2 |
Cardinals whiffed twice. Seahawks took DK but then whiffed on Jennings. There are 8 teams(a 1/4 of the league) just in that small table sample size, of just one draft yr, that whiffed on WR's. ...and that is obviously not all the whiffs on WR's in that draft class, just some of the more talked about names leading up to that draft. Great post. More proof that A. The Draft is a crapshoot B. It's pretty easy to cherry pick some stats to make your point while excluding others that don't validate it C. If the Pats had just drafted Jakobi Myers, nobody would be saying anything D. It don't matter how you get there, it matters what you do once your foot is in the door |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 21, 2022 18:23:56 GMT -5
If the Pats had just drafted Jakobi Myers, nobody would be saying anything ? If the Pats hadn't drafted N'Keal Harry at pick #32, they would have drafted another player who may have had a big impact on this team for years to come. People are saying stuff because Harry is a big fat bust. Just because they got lucky later in the draft with Meyers, doesn't make the Harry bust any better. They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. It does also matter how you get there. A direct route is better and faster than years of wasted draft picks, wasted money in FA, etc. Now, I don't think the Pats will be the Jets in terms of sustained mediocrity, but I also don't think the Krafts nor the fans would be okay if a decade went by for another SB appearance. |
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Post by digger0862 on Apr 21, 2022 19:48:01 GMT -5
If the Pats had just drafted Jakobi Myers, nobody would be saying anything ? If the Pats hadn't drafted N'Keal Harry at pick #32, they would have drafted another player who may have had a big impact on this team for years to come. People are saying stuff because Harry is a big fat bust. Just because they got lucky later in the draft with Meyers, doesn't make the Harry bust any better. They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. It does also matter how you get there. A direct route is better and faster than years of wasted draft picks, wasted money in FA, etc. Now, I don't think the Pats will be the Jets in terms of sustained mediocrity, but I also don't think the Krafts nor the fans would be okay if a decade went by for another SB appearance. Whoa! Slow down and take a step back. Harry was one draft pick. The fate of the Patriots do not rest on that one failed pick. If teams knew how good Deebo, A.J., D.K. and McLaurin would be in the NFL they would have drafted them all in the first round. |
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Apr 21, 2022 21:37:35 GMT -5
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 21, 2022 21:53:24 GMT -5
Wait according to hindsight expertise everyone wanted Deebo, it’s weird how only two posters voted for him and one voted for AJ Brown… I thought everyone but BB knew what a fool he was for selecting Harry? |
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Post by squishthefish on Apr 21, 2022 23:08:40 GMT -5
If the Pats had just drafted Jakobi Myers, nobody would be saying anything ? If the Pats hadn't drafted N'Keal Harry at pick #32, they would have drafted another player who may have had a big impact on this team for years to come. People are saying stuff because Harry is a big fat bust. Just because they got lucky later in the draft with Meyers, doesn't make the Harry bust any better. They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. It does also matter how you get there. A direct route is better and faster than years of wasted draft picks, wasted money in FA, etc. Now, I don't think the Pats will be the Jets in terms of sustained mediocrity, but I also don't think the Krafts nor the fans would be okay if a decade went by for another SB appearance. This is revisionist history. Most experts and mock drafts had Harry as the second receiver off the board ahead of Deebo and DK. No one forecasted that while he had the body of a 69 camero, he had the motor of a 80’s yugo. Additionally, I still feel he would have been more productive being moved to a te role where his blocking, height and speed level would benefit when being covered by slower Lb/de, and typically smaller slot corners. Maybe if they feature him that way in camp they can get a conditional 6th back if he does well. |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 6:26:24 GMT -5
? If the Pats hadn't drafted N'Keal Harry at pick #32, they would have drafted another player who may have had a big impact on this team for years to come. People are saying stuff because Harry is a big fat bust. Just because they got lucky later in the draft with Meyers, doesn't make the Harry bust any better. They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. It does also matter how you get there. A direct route is better and faster than years of wasted draft picks, wasted money in FA, etc. Now, I don't think the Pats will be the Jets in terms of sustained mediocrity, but I also don't think the Krafts nor the fans would be okay if a decade went by for another SB appearance. This is revisionist history. Most experts and mock drafts had Harry as the second receiver off the board ahead of Deebo and DK. No one forecasted that while he had the body of a 69 camero, he had the motor of a 80’s yugo. Additionally, I still feel he would have been more productive being moved to a te role where his blocking, height and speed level would benefit when being covered by slower Lb/de, and typically smaller slot corners. Maybe if they feature him that way in camp they can get a conditional 6th back if he does well. Not my history. Take a peek at the draft thread from that year and you will clearly see me saying I wanted Deebo well before the actual draft. I can't speak for the rest of the society, only for myself. Deebo is who I wanted out of all the receivers in the class and ahead of Brown and Metcalf. He would have had to gain 20 lbs to be moved to TE. At least if you want him inline. His route running is sloppy. He is slow in and out of his breaks. He has decent hands and can out muscle for the contested catch but he is rarely used like this. This is perhaps at best a case of mismatch in his skill to how the Patriots intended to use him. |
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Apr 22, 2022 7:03:45 GMT -5
? If the Pats hadn't drafted N'Keal Harry at pick #32, they would have drafted another player who may have had a big impact on this team for years to come. People are saying stuff because Harry is a big fat bust. Just because they got lucky later in the draft with Meyers, doesn't make the Harry bust any better. They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. It does also matter how you get there. A direct route is better and faster than years of wasted draft picks, wasted money in FA, etc. Now, I don't think the Pats will be the Jets in terms of sustained mediocrity, but I also don't think the Krafts nor the fans would be okay if a decade went by for another SB appearance. Whoa! Slow down and take a step back. Harry was one draft pick. The fate of the Patriots do not rest on that one failed pick. If teams knew how good Deebo, A.J., D.K. and McLaurin would be in the NFL they would have drafted them all in the first round. Hysterical. Here are direct quotes from patslifer when the Pats drafted Harry. patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/5825/2019-patriots-draft-thread?page=117"And strong. 27 reps of 225. That is unheard of. He and Metcalf share a lot of similarities but Harry is a much more polished player." " Any interest in giving the Cards a 2nd for Rosen?" |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 7:28:19 GMT -5
Whoa! Slow down and take a step back. Harry was one draft pick. The fate of the Patriots do not rest on that one failed pick. If teams knew how good Deebo, A.J., D.K. and McLaurin would be in the NFL they would have drafted them all in the first round. Hysterical. Here are direct quotes from patslifer when the Pats drafted Harry. patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/5825/2019-patriots-draft-thread?page=117"And strong. 27 reps of 225. That is unheard of. He and Metcalf share a lot of similarities but Harry is a much more polished player." " Any interest in giving the Cards a 2nd for Rosen?" Cherry picking again? I think you forgot to post this quote........ "Crazy.Now trade and go grab Samuel and that will be a savage WR corps."
Also, this post was after the draft. You have to go back and look who I wanted pre-draft. It was Deebo. Try again. Here's another post. Page 96 from the draft thread. "Good choice. He's the best Edelman-like WR in this class I believe. I"m pretty sure he could play all 3 WR spots and I think he gives us a ton of versatility. Tough, good hands, can make the contested catch, physical, nasty, returns kicks, awesome YAC."Here's another from page 99 of the draft thread.... "I think Samuel and Morgan would be two great selections for the Pats.
Samuel has the goods to develop into a play making weapon.
I have no idea about Morgan but he strikes me similar to what they were hoping that Mitchell could provide.
Or from page 102.... "Nice. Although I'm kinda lukewarm on Paris Campbell. He's got great, raw talent, but I'd prefer someone like Samuel there if possible who is more polished, better route runner and just savage like in his play demeanor. I'd be okay with Jace @ 64 but man would I love to strike a trade up in 2nd or pick at 64 and grab Isabella.I think between Samuel, Isabella, Edelman those are tough cats to cover and all with great quicks and dangerous after the catch and seem to fit our offense really well. You can move those 3 all around the formation, X, Y & Z.
Or from page 104... "I think it depends on how patient BB is willing to be. Campbell May take a year or two to acclimate and learn. I feel Samuel, while not as athletic, is a technician with solid speed and quicks and absolute savage after the catch. To me he is much more pro ready and developed." |
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 7:49:43 GMT -5
Not my history. Take a peek at the draft thread from that year and you will clearly see me saying I wanted Deebo well before the actual draft. I can't speak for the rest of the society, only for myself. Deebo is who I wanted out of all the receivers in the class and ahead of Brown and Metcalf. He would have had to gain 20 lbs to be moved to TE. At least if you want him inline. His route running is sloppy. He is slow in and out of his breaks. He has decent hands and can out muscle for the contested catch but he is rarely used like this. This is perhaps at best a case of mismatch in his skill to how the Patriots intended to use him. The draft thread is like every draft periodical out there, there's something good to be said about every player, especially those predicted to go in the first round. Unless someone dredges up their posts about N'Keal being a bad player or showing reasons why he would fail prior to the draft then who cares. Tell us who the busts are in advance, that would be impressive. We all have posts extolling the virtues of all the first round prospects, especially the shiny hood ornaments. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for it. |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 7:53:20 GMT -5
Not my history. Take a peek at the draft thread from that year and you will clearly see me saying I wanted Deebo well before the actual draft. I can't speak for the rest of the society, only for myself. Deebo is who I wanted out of all the receivers in the class and ahead of Brown and Metcalf. He would have had to gain 20 lbs to be moved to TE. At least if you want him inline. His route running is sloppy. He is slow in and out of his breaks. He has decent hands and can out muscle for the contested catch but he is rarely used like this. This is perhaps at best a case of mismatch in his skill to how the Patriots intended to use him. The draft thread is like every draft periodical out there, there's something good to be said about every player, especially those predicted to go in the first round. Unless someone dredges up their posts about N'Keal being a bad player or showing reasons why he would fail prior to the draft then who cares. Tell us who the busts are in advance, that would be impressive. We all have posts extolling the virtues of all the first round prospects, especially the shiny hood ornaments. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for it. I'm not patting myself on the back for anything. I'm just trying to correct the revisionist history here. There are at least 2 other regulars on the draft thread that wanted Deebo. I won't mention them. And, I'm not really interested in calling out who the busts are prior to the draft. I'm interested more in understanding who has the traits to excel in the Pats system. Deebo had the traits. Harry did not. Simple. Let's move on and call it what it was. A busted pick. Water under the bridge. |
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Apr 22, 2022 8:01:03 GMT -5
Cherry picking again? I think you forgot to post this quote........ "Crazy.Now trade and go grab Samuel and that will be a savage WR corps."
Also, this post was after the draft. You have to go back and look who I wanted pre-draft. It was Deebo. Try again. Here's another post. Page 96 from the draft thread. "Good choice. He's the best Edelman-like WR in this class I believe. I"m pretty sure he could play all 3 WR spots and I think he gives us a ton of versatility. Tough, good hands, can make the contested catch, physical, nasty, returns kicks, awesome YAC."Here's another from page 99 of the draft thread.... "I think Samuel and Morgan would be two great selections for the Pats.
Samuel has the goods to develop into a play making weapon.
I have no idea about Morgan but he strikes me similar to what they were hoping that Mitchell could provide.
Or from page 102.... "Nice. Although I'm kinda lukewarm on Paris Campbell. He's got great, raw talent, but I'd prefer someone like Samuel there if possible who is more polished, better route runner and just savage like in his play demeanor. I'd be okay with Jace @ 64 but man would I love to strike a trade up in 2nd or pick at 64 and grab Isabella.I think between Samuel, Isabella, Edelman those are tough cats to cover and all with great quicks and dangerous after the catch and seem to fit our offense really well. You can move those 3 all around the formation, X, Y & Z.
Or from page 104... "I think it depends on how patient BB is willing to be. Campbell May take a year or two to acclimate and learn. I feel Samuel, while not as athletic, is a technician with solid speed and quicks and absolute savage after the catch. To me he is much more pro ready and developed."You are the one most vocally bitching about the Harry pick, and saying "woulda, shoulda, coulda". Yet you liked him better than Metcalf when they picked him. See how easy drafting is? |
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Post by thehub on Apr 22, 2022 8:09:18 GMT -5
I am with Patifer on this one. He was high on Deebo.
Yes he said he liked Harry over DK but DK was a beast at the combine that shot up the rankings. Harry seemed like the better / safer pick.
Draft is a game of luck sometimes.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 8:10:11 GMT -5
I'm not patting myself on the back for anything. I'm just trying to correct the revisionist history here. There are at least 2 other regulars on the draft thread that wanted Deebo. I won't mention them. And, I'm not really interested in calling out who the busts are prior to the draft. I'm interested more in understanding who has the traits to excel in the Pats system. Deebo had the traits. Harry did not. Simple. Let's move on and call it what it was. A busted pick. Water under the bridge. Two people said it was a mistake not to pick Deebo over Harry, one person said it was a mistake not to pick AJ Brown over Harry... that was in the poll on the thread posted on another thread. One person who said Deebo was Mthurl, the other person is a mystery. Unless you're the other person I don't see the need for patting ourselves on the back. Almost without exception on draft day nobody was saying Harry was a bad pick... nobody. Because at that point it was a toss up and you assume the team knew more than we did about these players mental makeup. They obviously didn't, the Pats chose the "nice guy" over the guys that would actually succeed. That was a mistake. I don't think BB wanted to take a WR in the first at all but was in a precarious position. His team was up against the cap, his starting QB was btching about WR's and veteran weapons were expensive. The team threw out everything they considered important in the draft and drafted purely for need. They were in the midst of "win now." Who cares, what's the obsession with Harry anyway? If the Pats took Deebo or AJ Brown instead they still aren't winning a ring in 2019 Tom is still leaving in 2020. He's gets paid nothing, who cares. |
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Post by philskiw on Apr 22, 2022 8:12:35 GMT -5
Lifer was all over it.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 8:14:08 GMT -5
Good for Lifer, we all have draft binkies.
Tell me who is going to fail in the first round in advance, that's what I want to know.
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 8:35:39 GMT -5
I'm not patting myself on the back for anything. I'm just trying to correct the revisionist history here. There are at least 2 other regulars on the draft thread that wanted Deebo. I won't mention them. And, I'm not really interested in calling out who the busts are prior to the draft. I'm interested more in understanding who has the traits to excel in the Pats system. Deebo had the traits. Harry did not. Simple. Let's move on and call it what it was. A busted pick. Water under the bridge. Two people said it was a mistake not to pick Deebo over Harry, one person said it was a mistake not to pick AJ Brown over Harry... that was in the poll on the thread posted on another thread. One person who said Deebo was Mthurl, the other person is a mystery. Unless you're the other person I don't see the need for patting ourselves on the back. Almost without exception on draft day nobody was saying Harry was a bad pick... nobody. Because at that point it was a toss up and you assume the team knew more than we did about these players mental makeup. They obviously didn't, the Pats chose the "nice guy" over the guys that would actually succeed. That was a mistake. I don't think BB wanted to take a WR in the first at all but was in a precarious position. His team was up against the cap, his starting QB was btching about WR's and veteran weapons were expensive. The team threw out everything they considered important in the draft and drafted purely for need. They were in the midst of "win now." Who cares, what's the obsession with Harry anyway? If the Pats took Deebo or AJ Brown instead they still aren't winning a ring in 2019 Tom is still leaving in 2020. He's gets paid nothing, who cares. Man, way to change the goal posts. "Tom is still leaving", "we aren't winning a ring". Jesus. This is your rationale for not picking good players? I do agree on one thing. Most were behind the Harry pick ONCE IT WAS MADE. This is called supporting your team. While not their pick, it becomes water under the bridge and you move on and look for the positive in said player. I am included in that group. Your explanation for BB's actions in round 1 are just unreal. "In a precarious position". Seriously? Why was he in a precarious position? He could have chosen any number of players. He also didn't have to trade up in round 2 and then land JoeJuan Williams at 45..another bust. |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 8:36:46 GMT -5
Good for Lifer, we all have draft binkies. Tell me who is going to fail in the first round in advance, that's what I want to know. Why do you want to know that? Wouldn't it be more productive to understand who has a higher chance of succeeding in your system in said round? |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 8:38:47 GMT -5
Good for Lifer, we all have draft binkies. Tell me who is going to fail in the first round in advance, that's what I want to know. To be balanced.......I also wanted Cajuste. The Pats drafted him and he hasn't done anything, only playing in 7 games, starting 2. And I'm not saying BB can't draft or I know more than him. To his credit he got us Harris and Bailey in that draft, 2 starters who have done very well. |
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 8:44:07 GMT -5
Cherry picking again? I think you forgot to post this quote........ "Crazy.Now trade and go grab Samuel and that will be a savage WR corps."
Also, this post was after the draft. You have to go back and look who I wanted pre-draft. It was Deebo. Try again. Here's another post. Page 96 from the draft thread. "Good choice. He's the best Edelman-like WR in this class I believe. I"m pretty sure he could play all 3 WR spots and I think he gives us a ton of versatility. Tough, good hands, can make the contested catch, physical, nasty, returns kicks, awesome YAC."Here's another from page 99 of the draft thread.... "I think Samuel and Morgan would be two great selections for the Pats.
Samuel has the goods to develop into a play making weapon.
I have no idea about Morgan but he strikes me similar to what they were hoping that Mitchell could provide.
Or from page 102.... "Nice. Although I'm kinda lukewarm on Paris Campbell. He's got great, raw talent, but I'd prefer someone like Samuel there if possible who is more polished, better route runner and just savage like in his play demeanor. I'd be okay with Jace @ 64 but man would I love to strike a trade up in 2nd or pick at 64 and grab Isabella.I think between Samuel, Isabella, Edelman those are tough cats to cover and all with great quicks and dangerous after the catch and seem to fit our offense really well. You can move those 3 all around the formation, X, Y & Z.
Or from page 104... "I think it depends on how patient BB is willing to be. Campbell May take a year or two to acclimate and learn. I feel Samuel, while not as athletic, is a technician with solid speed and quicks and absolute savage after the catch. To me he is much more pro ready and developed."You are the one most vocally bitching about the Harry pick, and saying "woulda, shoulda, coulda". Yet you liked him better than Metcalf when they picked him. See how easy drafting is? Like you and most here, I want to see the Pats succeed. I'm bitching because there was a tailor made player right in front of us, the next coming of Edelman but maybe better and we passed on him for sloppy route runner who wins contested catches. Deebo is special, like Hill is special. Those players don't come along very often and I think he would be a damn beast in our system. If you look at the Pats over the past 20 years, we haven't really drafted a lot of 50/50 guys. Gronk being the exception maybe but Gronk also wins on speed and quickness (or at least did when he was young and matched up against smaller safeties and LBs). Yes, I thought Harry was more polished than Metcalf. Everyone knew Metcalf was a physical beast and would take a little time to develop. I said they are similar players with Metcalf being more athletic, Harry more polished at the point of the draft. But that doesn't mean I would have taken Metcalf over Deebo. I wouldn't have and still wouldn't do so today. |
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Post by muzwell on Apr 22, 2022 9:02:31 GMT -5
Just think if they drafted Deebo we’d have our very own diva malcontent who wants to be traded after unfriending our team on instachat. Awesome. Love that shit.
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 9:08:47 GMT -5
Yeah, because we know that every player responds exactly the same in completely different systems and set of circumstances. They are robots.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:13:37 GMT -5
Just think if they drafted Deebo we’d have our very own diva malcontent who wants to be traded after unfriending our team on instachat. Awesome. Love that shit. This is exactly what I meant by Brady would still be gone. Their record since that time would almost be the same and we'd have a free agent to be moaning about being traded and unfollowing us on social media. Whoopee! |
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Post by salcon on Apr 22, 2022 9:20:05 GMT -5
It really must be the "slow" time in the season when we're arguing about a guy we "could" have had.
It sure would be nice to know beforehand whether a player is going to be a bust or not.
In the case of Harry we can blame the scouting staff and BB for ultimately going with the pick. Hopefully they do better in their draft process. And if last year's draft was any example I think they are headed in the right direction.
But again, Deebo ain't coming here so the fact he wants a trade is a moot point for those people pining for a SHO.
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