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Post by salcon on Apr 22, 2022 9:22:16 GMT -5
I bet Deebo would have been really happy trying to catch balls from Cam after a year with Brady then a rookie QB.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:23:17 GMT -5
Man, way to change the goal posts. "Tom is still leaving", "we aren't winning a ring". Jesus. This is your rationale for not picking good players? I do agree on one thing. Most were behind the Harry pick ONCE IT WAS MADE. This is called supporting your team. While not their pick, it becomes water under the bridge and you move on and look for the positive in said player. I am included in that group. Your explanation for BB's actions in round 1 are just unreal. "In a precarious position". Seriously? Why was he in a precarious position? He could have chosen any number of players. He also didn't have to trade up in round 2 and then land JoeJuan Williams at 45..another bust. Most wanted Harry prior to the draft, most want weapons above and beyond an actual need and think as a team we should roster 10-12 WR's every season. Some simply liked Deebo or AJ Brown a smidge more. Nobody told us "don't draft Harry," which as a first round projected prospect would have been a lot more impressive. Go to the draft thread right now, match what people are saying with the top 20 WR prospects on there... they're all great, they're all amazing... just some are a little more favored than others. Until they get drafted and fail and then BB should have known better... good grief. The draft is a crapshoot, WR's have one of the highest failure rates in the draft. BB typically doesn't draft WR's at all, that's not opinion but fact based of their draft history.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:26:19 GMT -5
It really must be the "slow" time in the season when we're arguing about a guy we "could" have had. It sure would be nice to know beforehand whether a player is going to be a bust or not. In the case of Harry we can blame the scouting staff and BB for ultimately going with the pick. Hopefully they do better in their draft process. And if last year's draft was any example I think they are headed in the right direction. But again, Deebo ain't coming here so the fact he wants a trade is a moot point for those people pining for a SHO. We'll be hearing the moaning about N'Keal for close to a decade at least, they could win three more rings and the moaning wouldn't cease. Does anyone remember how long we had to hear about Chad Jackson or Dominique Easley? The draft is a crapshoot and a small part of roster building, this gets forgotten every year around this time.
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Post by belestrator on Apr 22, 2022 9:34:32 GMT -5
Man, way to change the goal posts. "Tom is still leaving", "we aren't winning a ring". Jesus. This is your rationale for not picking good players? I do agree on one thing. Most were behind the Harry pick ONCE IT WAS MADE. This is called supporting your team. While not their pick, it becomes water under the bridge and you move on and look for the positive in said player. I am included in that group. Your explanation for BB's actions in round 1 are just unreal. "In a precarious position". Seriously? Why was he in a precarious position? He could have chosen any number of players. He also didn't have to trade up in round 2 and then land JoeJuan Williams at 45..another bust. Most wanted Harry prior to the draft, most want weapons above and beyond an actual need and think as a team we should roster 10-12 WR's every season. Some simply liked Deebo or AJ Brown a smidge more. Nobody told us "don't draft Harry," which as a first round projected prospect would have been a lot more impressive. Go to the draft thread right now, match what people are saying with the top 20 WR prospects on there... they're all great, they're all amazing... just some are a little more favored than others. Until they get drafted and fail and then BB should have known better... good grief. The draft is a crapshoot, WR's have one of the highest failure rates in the draft. BB typically doesn't draft WR's at all, that's not opinion but fact based of their draft history. I wasn't particularly enamored with Harry until Nate Burleson sang his praises on GMFB. Was a Metcalf guy until then, but did have some concerns about his neck fracture. After Burleson's review, I was fully on board with Harry. Did not see the bust potential. Shame on me.
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Post by squishthefish on Apr 22, 2022 9:36:53 GMT -5
This is revisionist history. Most experts and mock drafts had Harry as the second receiver off the board ahead of Deebo and DK. No one forecasted that while he had the body of a 69 camero, he had the motor of a 80’s yugo. Additionally, I still feel he would have been more productive being moved to a te role where his blocking, height and speed level would benefit when being covered by slower Lb/de, and typically smaller slot corners. Maybe if they feature him that way in camp they can get a conditional 6th back if he does well. Not my history. Take a peek at the draft thread from that year and you will clearly see me saying I wanted Deebo well before the actual draft. I can't speak for the rest of the society, only for myself. Deebo is who I wanted out of all the receivers in the class and ahead of Brown and Metcalf. He would have had to gain 20 lbs to be moved to TE. At least if you want him inline. His route running is sloppy. He is slow in and out of his breaks. He has decent hands and can out muscle for the contested catch but he is rarely used like this. This is perhaps at best a case of mismatch in his skill to how the Patriots intended to use him. While you may have stated in the past that you wanted the pats to take Deebo, the revisionist history is this quote you made: “They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. ” Most in the nfl analyst community had Harry as the second best receiver in the draft. Deebo had one healthy season in college (2018) and had broken his leg the year before. Metcalf had injury (neck 2018 and foot 2016) and dropped catch concerns. In this case, the risky prospects worked out wonderfully for their teams just like Gronk did for the pats while N’Keal is awful and a bust.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:37:59 GMT -5
I wasn't particularly enamored with Harry until Nate Burleson sang his praises on GMFB. Was a Metcalf guy until then, but did have some concerns about his neck fracture. After Burleson's review, I was fully on board with Harry. Did not see the bust potential. Shame on me. I didn't even want a WR in the first, I wanted some other position and wanted Parris Campbell later on... that guy hasn't been able to stay healthy for 5 minutes. The weapons crowd always want weapons.... let's roster all weapons and let them play O-Line, Defense and kick field goals. We can win if we have all the best weapons
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 9:40:21 GMT -5
While you may have stated in the past that you wanted the pats to take Deebo, the revisionist history is this quote you made: “They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. ” Most in the nfl analyst community had Harry as the second best receiver in the draft. Deebo had one healthy season in college (2018) and had broken his leg the year before. Metcalf had injury (neck 2018 and foot 2016) and dropped catch concerns. In this case, the risky prospects worked out wonderfully for their teams just like Gronk did for the pats while N’Keal is awful and a bust. This ^
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Post by squishthefish on Apr 22, 2022 10:07:38 GMT -5
It really must be the "slow" time in the season when we're arguing about a guy we "could" have had. It sure would be nice to know beforehand whether a player is going to be a bust or not. In the case of Harry we can blame the scouting staff and BB for ultimately going with the pick. Hopefully they do better in their draft process. And if last year's draft was any example I think they are headed in the right direction. But again, Deebo ain't coming here so the fact he wants a trade is a moot point for those people pining for a SHO. We'll be hearing the moaning about N'Keal for close to a decade at least, they could win three more rings and the moaning wouldn't cease. Does anyone remember how long we had to hear about Chad Jackson or Dominique Easley? The draft is a crapshoot and a small part of roster building, this gets forgotten every year around this time. I agree.. Didn’t someone reference ruptured Ras-I Dowling the other day? Looked great at first, then couldn’t get out of the tub long enough to make it in the league. Not every pick will be a star, or a starter, but some contribute to the team success regardless. Sometimes it takes years to realize this fact. I remember in the past that people were unhappy with the matthew slater pick because bb drafted a raw player who appeared to be for special teams only. There was the ghost pick where he took a kicker in in round 4 instead of overpaying vinatieri. They ended up being key contributors to many successful teams. Back when we were on the old Boston.com forums (I wasn’t a huge poster there under a different Id with just a few hundred posts total, but I was either the first, or among the first babe ever called a homer 😂) there was always knee jerk reactions to picks, hindsight second guessing, and complaints about bb the gm too, but it was due to our desire to see the pats keep winning and our passion as fans. We can’t change the past with picks. A bust is a bust, a star is a star, but they may not have become that with every team since not every player fits team’s personnel needs/wants. Some find changes of scenery where they are given a chance to start (vrabel), or a scheme change (kvn) that suits their abilities. Ultimately, all we can do is cheer for what we have and hope that we draft more gronk gamble successes than ras-i and easley guesses, and more dmc, mankins, thuney, etc picks than meriweather, maroney, jackson types. Either way, I’ll be a pats fan for life!
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Post by muzwell on Apr 22, 2022 10:36:59 GMT -5
Yeah, because we know that every player responds exactly the same in completely different systems and set of circumstances. They are robots. Not all, just the divas. They're all pretty much the same. I'd put N'Keal in that camp too, by the way.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2022 10:46:10 GMT -5
Not all, just the divas. They're all pretty much the same. I'd put N'Keal in that camp too, by the way. I’d say the marked difference between Brown and Deebo versus N’Keal is they came right out and said they wanted to be traded themselves and unfollowed their teams on social media. They have been outspoken about it. N’Keal didn’t have the balls, he told his agent to make it happen. This again speaks to his meek soft nature.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 22, 2022 12:33:08 GMT -5
When the Pats had Deebo, AJ, and Harry in for pre draft visits. When Deebo and AJ left the facility for the day they both immediately went on the socials and started blabbering away about the visit. Harry was radio silent. Coincidence? Probably.
I have said on here a number of time about wanting AJ and him being at the top of my WR board that year and less high on Deebo. A lot of that was Deebo's injury history, him being a converted RB, and the Pats looking for an X, which he doesn't fit, IMO, but AJ potentially did.
I still have the same thoughts on both players today as I did then.
Now you have Deebo who is being used perfectly, imo, for his converted RB skill set bitching about how he's being used. I'm thinking that would NOT go over well here in NE, at all.
I'm wondering if this is simply negotiating tactics with the 49ers offering him money more as an elite gadget player and not as an elite WR so he's saying no I am only a WR and pay me accordingly. We've seen this kind of thing before.
...in any case... (not that the Pats have the money of draft capital for such a thing anyway)
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 14:31:05 GMT -5
When the Pats had Deebo, AJ, and Harry in for pre draft visits. When Deebo and AJ left the facility for the day they both immediately went on the socials and started blabbering away about the visit. Harry was radio silent. Coincidence? Probably. I have said on here a number of time about wanting AJ and him being at the top of my WR board that year and less high on Deebo. A lot of that was Deebo's injury history, him being a converted RB, and the Pats looking for an X, which he doesn't fit, IMO, but AJ potentially did. I still have the same thoughts on both players today as I did then. Now you have Deebo who is being used perfectly, imo, for his converted RB skill set bitching about how he's being used. I'm thinking that would NOT go over well here in NE, at all. I wondering if this is simply negotiating tactics with the 49ers offering him money more as an elite gadget player and not as an elite WR so he's saying no I am only a WR and pay me accordingly. We've seen this kind of thing before. ...in any case... (not that the Pats have the money of draft capital for such a thing anyway) I think this is exactly what it is...money. WRs get paid more. Pay him like a WR vs. a RB. Then use him as they have the first 4 years. He just wants to get paid what he's worth and he's worth a bunch.
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Post by patslifer on Apr 22, 2022 14:46:08 GMT -5
Not my history. Take a peek at the draft thread from that year and you will clearly see me saying I wanted Deebo well before the actual draft. I can't speak for the rest of the society, only for myself. Deebo is who I wanted out of all the receivers in the class and ahead of Brown and Metcalf. He would have had to gain 20 lbs to be moved to TE. At least if you want him inline. His route running is sloppy. He is slow in and out of his breaks. He has decent hands and can out muscle for the contested catch but he is rarely used like this. This is perhaps at best a case of mismatch in his skill to how the Patriots intended to use him. While you may have stated in the past that you wanted the pats to take Deebo, the revisionist history is this quote you made: “They could have had Deebo and Jakobi or any number of players that many here and in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry. ” Most in the nfl analyst community had Harry as the second best receiver in the draft. Deebo had one healthy season in college (2018) and had broken his leg the year before. Metcalf had injury (neck 2018 and foot 2016) and dropped catch concerns. In this case, the risky prospects worked out wonderfully for their teams just like Gronk did for the pats while N’Keal is awful and a bust I looked at a WR rankings in 2019 prior to the draft. Harry was consistently in the top 4. In one ranking he's #1. In an SI ranking, he's #4. CBS sports had him as #2 behind AJ Brown. Draftwire had him as #3. Bleacher report had him as #2 behind AJ Brown. So, I don't think my comment of "most in the NFL analyst community had Harry as second best receiver in the draft" is far off at all. IN fact, most had him right behind AJ Brown. My prior comment of "Deebo or Jakobi or ANY NUMBER OF PLAYERS that many in the NFL analyst community thought much better than Harry" is in reference to other players / other positions they could have drafted ahead of Harry. Like CB/S for example. They traded 56 and 101 for 45 and drafted the bust JoeJuan Williams. CB/S was high on their list. I'm moving on. Water under the bridge. I'll leave it at this........Their 1st and 2nd round picks from 2019 are busts. They hit on a Kicker and RB Harris. They grabbed Meyers as a UDFA and Winovich was "serviceable" at times. So not a terrible draft but could have been a grand slam. I can see your point on Deebo being injury prone and a risk. AJ Brown would have been the safest pick given his ranking & production.
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