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Post by thejuice on Apr 22, 2024 12:58:01 GMT -5
I’m not a big fan of trading assets in the 1-2 round on wide receivers who I then have to turn around and pay (and pay big). However I do support that after the 3rd round, or even the third round itself if the receiver is THAT good. Simply because I think the asset (3rd round) dramatically falls off statistically from the second round - and the second round dramatically falls off from the first round. The draft really is very difficult, and a crap shoot due to so many factors…trading an asset for an outstanding player in the 4th round area is A OK in my book, but not the 1-2 round. IMO agreed. ideally, you just take a pick on day 1 or 2, and find your self that WR1 or WR1a/1b and have him for 4 years or so relatively cheaply... and then dont have to use a day 1 or 2 draft pick to acquire a guy and then pay him a lot of $.... i am fine with doing that.... if we were a team that was 1 or 2 players away and a playoff type team trying to win it all... in that situation, trading a day 1 or 2 pick and then paying a really good WR in his prime, makes a lot of sense... when you are a 4-13 team that is seemingly many players away from being a title contender, i dont see how it makes much if any sense to do that right now.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 22, 2024 13:05:50 GMT -5
you putting Aiyuk in the same sentence as Osborne and JuJu is asinine Juju’s season at 22 years old is better than the best season of Aiyuk’s career. Aiyuk has been in an optimal offensive situation in San Francisco, better than Osborn has ever been in and better than Juju has seen since Ben was his QB and the Steelers were a good team. Receivers are beholden to the QB, blocking and scheme around them… they don’t produce in a vacuum. Learn the game. what does JuJu at 22 years old have to do with him now, and how he played for the Pats? Aiyuk had to share the ball with Deebo, CMC, Kittles. Osborne had to share with JJ, Thielen, Addison, Hockenson. Purdy. Cousins. Shanny. McConnell. pretty siumilar situations. Aiyuk has dwarfed Osborne
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 13:10:01 GMT -5
what does JuJu at 22 years old have to do with him now, and how he played for the Pats? Aiyuk had to share the ball with Deebo, CMC, Kittles. Osborne had to share with JJ, Thielen, Addison, Hockenson. Purdy. Cousins. Shanny. McConnell. pretty siumilar situations. Aiyuk has dwarfed Osborne Juju in the best situation possible at a similar age was a similar player to Aiyuk. You put all your stock into “production” without considering coaching, blocking, QB play, scheme, health. Aiyuk has been in Shanahan’s system and surrounded by good/great players his entire career. This isn’t singles tennis or golf, it’s a team sport. Randy Moss didn’t do sht on the Raiders with Andrew Walters throwing him the ball. Again, learn the game.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 22, 2024 13:11:20 GMT -5
what does JuJu at 22 years old have to do with him now, and how he played for the Pats? Aiyuk had to share the ball with Deebo, CMC, Kittles. Osborne had to share with JJ, Thielen, Addison, Hockenson. Purdy. Cousins. Shanny. McConnell. pretty siumilar situations. Aiyuk has dwarfed Osborne Juju in the best situation possible at a similar age was a similar player to Aiyuk. You put all your stock into “production” without considering coaching, blocking, QB play, scheme, health. Aiyuk has been in Shanahan’s system and surrounded by good/great players his entire career. This isn’t singles tennis or golf, it’s a team sport. Randy Moss didn’t do sht on the Raiders with Andrew Walters throwing him the ball. Again, learn the game. I was saying JuJu today, should not be in the same sentence as Aiyuk. neither should Osborn. stop dancing and take the L
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 13:19:34 GMT -5
I was saying JuJu today, should not be in the same sentence as Aiyuk. neither should Osborn. stop dancing and take the L And I didn’t say one was better than another, I called them all “similar players.” Height, weight, measurables…. similar. And since you possess a wonderful gift of ignoring what you can’t understand or deny… Aiyuk has been in a much better team situation. If he gets traded and signs a massive deal in NE he won’t be in the optimal situation to produce unless the collaboration does an amazing job in the draft and offseason. Receivers don’t produce in a vacuum.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 22, 2024 13:33:54 GMT -5
I was saying JuJu today, should not be in the same sentence as Aiyuk. neither should Osborn. stop dancing and take the L And I didn’t say one was better than another, I called them all “similar players.” Height, weight, measurables…. similar. And since you possess a wonderful gift of ignoring what you can’t understand or deny… Aiyuk has been in a much better team situation. If he gets traded and signs a massive deal in NE he won’t be in the optimal situation to produce unless the collaboration does an amazing job in the draft and offseason. Receivers don’t produce in a vacuum. try production take your L and move along
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 13:40:53 GMT -5
try production take your L and move along Randy Moss a year younger in 2006 was a lesser player than in 2007 according to you… it wasn’t that his team sucked. 🤡
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Post by rkarp on Apr 22, 2024 13:43:56 GMT -5
try production take your L and move along Randy Moss a year younger in 2006 was a lesser player than in 2007 according to you… it wasn’t that his team sucked. 🤡 earth to Wozzy the year is now 2024 try to keep up with the rest of us
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 13:55:08 GMT -5
earth to Wozzy the year is now 2024 try to keep up with the rest of us Receivers don’t block or throw too themselves. Learn the game. Osborn in San Francisco looks a lot like Aiyuk.
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Post by rkarp on Apr 22, 2024 14:13:29 GMT -5
earth to Wozzy the year is now 2024 try to keep up with the rest of us Receivers don’t block or throw too themselves. Learn the game. Osborn in San Francisco looks a lot like Aiyuk. so Cousins and McConnel make JJ the best WR in football and Theilen and Hockenson pro bowlers. but they cant get Osborn to his peak level? when they trade Theilen, rookie Addison plays more snaps than Osborn sounds a lot like when you were standing your ground on how good Byrd and Dorsett were because of their combine numbers Wozzy takes another L.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 14:17:31 GMT -5
so Cousins and McConnel make JJ the best WR in football and Theilen and Hockenson pro bowlers. but they cant get Osborn to his peak level? when they trade Theilen, rookie Addison plays more snaps than Osborn How many targets were there for 5th round pick Osborn after Justin Jefferson, Thielen and Hockenson? Aiyuk was the Thielen in San Francisco, he had more opportunities. Learn the game.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 14:25:04 GMT -5
Looks like we don’t have to worry about trading for and overpaying a #2 after all…
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Post by rkarp on Apr 22, 2024 14:27:22 GMT -5
so Cousins and McConnel make JJ the best WR in football and Theilen and Hockenson pro bowlers. but they cant get Osborn to his peak level? when they trade Theilen, rookie Addison plays more snaps than Osborn How many targets were there for 5th round pick Osborn after Justin Jefferson, Thielen and Hockenson? Aiyuk was the Thielen in San Francisco, he had more opportunities. Learn the game. Osborn 3 years-targets: 82. 90. 75. Wozzy with another L
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Post by rkarp on Apr 22, 2024 14:28:08 GMT -5
Looks like we don’t have to worry about trading for and overpaying a #2 after all… wait! what? you said you did not know what a #1 or #2 Wr was?? now you do?
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Post by texaspat on Apr 22, 2024 14:57:43 GMT -5
DK Metcalf ran a 4.33, Culp ran a 4.47... which means Metcalf is light years faster in terms of straight-line/deep speed. That said, if they wanna scoop Culp as a day 3 development trait pick, I'd be for it. As for which of the two I prefer, I'm an Aiyuk guy in this scenario. He's already shown to be a terrific fit for a Shanahan-esque O, and would immediately give them a true go-to #1 WR that they haven't had in a long time. I don't think that either of these guys are worth the $22-30 million per year that they'll be seeking. Will either of these guys make the Patriots a playoff team? I'd rather see the Patriots pass on a QB and trade down.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 15:29:15 GMT -5
Osborn 3 years-targets: 82. 90. 75. Wozzy with another L Aiyuk’s 3 years-targets: 84. 114. 105. Now let’s look at depth and quality of targets. Rkarp with no clue… still, after decades.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 22, 2024 15:30:01 GMT -5
wait! what? you said you did not know what a #1 or #2 Wr was?? now you do? I know you’re full of #2.
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Post by mthurl on Apr 23, 2024 2:44:55 GMT -5
I’m not a big fan of trading assets in the 1-2 round on wide receivers who I then have to turn around and pay (and pay big). However I do support that after the 3rd round, or even the third round itself if the receiver is THAT good. Simply because I think the asset (3rd round) dramatically falls off statistically from the second round - and the second round dramatically falls off from the first round. The draft really is very difficult, and a crap shoot due to so many factors…trading an asset for an outstanding player in the 4th round area is A OK in my book, but not the 1-2 round. IMO agreed. ideally, you just take a pick on day 1 or 2, and find your self that WR1 or WR1a/1b and have him for 4 years or so relatively cheaply... and then dont have to use a day 1 or 2 draft pick to acquire a guy and then pay him a lot of $.... i am fine with doing that.... if we were a team that was 1 or 2 players away and a playoff type team trying to win it all... in that situation, trading a day 1 or 2 pick and then paying a really good WR in his prime, makes a lot of sense... when you are a 4-13 team that is seemingly many players away from being a title contender, i dont see how it makes much if any sense to do that right now. Great post, I agree.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 23, 2024 9:14:08 GMT -5
DK Metcalf ran a 4.33, Culp ran a 4.47... which means Metcalf is light years faster in terms of straight-line/deep speed. That said, if they wanna scoop Culp as a day 3 development trait pick, I'd be for it. As for which of the two I prefer, I'm an Aiyuk guy in this scenario. He's already shown to be a terrific fit for a Shanahan-esque O, and would immediately give them a true go-to #1 WR that they haven't had in a long time. I don't think that either of these guys are worth the $22-30 million per year that they'll be seeking. Will either of these guys make the Patriots a playoff team? I'd rather see the Patriots pass on a QB and trade down. Aiyuk was 2nd team All-Pro last season... those types of WR's cost a lot. I think both can help them to the playoffs, but the key is finding the QB. I've said it over and over... it's a team sport where your season is essentially over if you don't have a good/great/elite QB. If you want them to pass on a QB, what is your plan at the position?
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Post by texaspat on Apr 23, 2024 10:23:14 GMT -5
I don't think that either of these guys are worth the $22-30 million per year that they'll be seeking. Will either of these guys make the Patriots a playoff team? I'd rather see the Patriots pass on a QB and trade down. Aiyuk was 2nd team All-Pro last season... those types of WR's cost a lot. I think both can help them to the playoffs, but the key is finding the QB. I've said it over and over... it's a team sport where your season is essentially over if you don't have a good/great/elite QB. If you want them to pass on a QB, what is your plan at the position? I'd like to see them land a QB too. But they can't afford to whiff on this 3rd overall pick...and can't afford to take a project. My guess is that both Williams and Daniels will be gone at #1 and #2...which leaves Maye. Though he seems to have all the raw tools to succeed, he didn't go head to head with the best competition in the ACC. Unless the Patriots are convinced that he's The Guy, they should pass on him and trade down...possibly to the Giants at pick #6. Dropping to pick #11 by trading with Minnesota would likely take them out of the range of the real blue chippers in the draft - Alt, the 3 top WRs, and the top 4 quarterbacks (the 3 that I have previously mentioned, and McCarthy...I see Penix as a second round pick, primarily due to him being 24 years old, and his dreadful injury history). It's a tough call. As I've said many times, I wish that they had acquired Justin Fields. If so, this decision would be so much easier. Since they didn't, my guess is that unless they receive a Godfather offer, Drake Maye will be their pick.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 23, 2024 11:19:27 GMT -5
Aiyuk was 2nd team All-Pro last season... those types of WR's cost a lot. I think both can help them to the playoffs, but the key is finding the QB. I've said it over and over... it's a team sport where your season is essentially over if you don't have a good/great/elite QB. If you want them to pass on a QB, what is your plan at the position? I'd like to see them land a QB too. But they can't afford to whiff on this 3rd overall pick...and can't afford to take a project. My guess is that both Williams and Daniels will be gone at #1 and #2...which leaves Maye. Though he seems to have all the raw tools to succeed, he didn't go head to head with the best competition in the ACC. Unless the Patriots are convinced that he's The Guy, they should pass on him and trade down...possibly to the Giants at pick #6. Dropping to pick #11 by trading with Minnesota would likely take them out of the range of the real blue chippers in the draft - Alt, the 3 top WRs, and the top 4 quarterbacks (the 3 that I have previously mentioned, and McCarthy...I see Penix as a second round pick, primarily due to him being 24 years old, and his dreadful injury history). It's a tough call. As I've said many times, I wish that they had acquired Justin Fields. If so, this decision would be so much easier. Since they didn't, my guess is that unless they receive a Godfather offer, Drake Maye will be their pick. With the age thing, while Penix Jr. is older than Daniels, both will be twenty-four during their rookie seasons... and Bo Nix is already twenty-four. I don't love the idea of Maye either, but they have to take a QB, as there's no other option. They can't wait until next year, as there are too many variables, and the position is too valuable/important.
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Post by michiganadam on Apr 23, 2024 11:28:42 GMT -5
I disagree. They have brisaett so I think they could wait a year. Trade back, gain a bunch of picks this year and next, fill all other holes this year, and then package the farm next year to find your long term answer if the developmental qb you pick this year isn't the answer. I take rattler, Milton, or who ever has highest ceiling in second or third tier guys this year. I like our 2 year odds better to maximize the return this year when there is alot of desire for teams to move up....
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