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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 12:37:08 GMT -5
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Post by wazzu on Feb 1, 2019 12:39:32 GMT -5
One thing I will mention, Hunter Renfrow's hands measured at a mere 7 3/4" at the Senior Bowl. That's really, really tiny for an NFL WR. Major Red Flag for me. I don't care that he caught the ball well in college. You can't convince me that a WR with that tiny of hands will be reliable in cold weather games in the NFL. I would be very reluctant to draft him, just for that reason.
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 13:03:08 GMT -5
One thing I will mention, Hunter Renfrow's hands measured at a mere 7 3/4" at the Senior Bowl. That's really, really tiny for an NFL WR. Major Red Flag for me. I don't care that he caught the ball well in college. You can't convince me that a WR with that tiny of hands will be reliable in cold weather games in the NFL. I would be very reluctant to draft him, just for that reason. It's all the gloves man. No ones making the one handed grabs they make without the gloves and the gloves allow players like Renfrow and Isabella to have no real trouble catching passes. You ever wear the latest gloves before? The ball legit instantly stops and sticks to the glove. Almost all the drops now-a-days are concentration, looking to run(taking eye off the ball) before the catch is made. Not hanging on after contact with ground or player. ...or because you only got a couple finger tips on it(this is where the hand size comes in more than anything because the receiver might have an inch or 2 less radius/reach to gets gloves on an off target throw). All things being equal of course you'll take the receiver with the bigger hands but there are at least a half a dozen qualities more important than the receivers hand size these days when those gloves do the majority of the work. At least imo.
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Post by wazzu on Feb 1, 2019 13:23:24 GMT -5
One thing I will mention, Hunter Renfrow's hands measured at a mere 7 3/4" at the Senior Bowl. That's really, really tiny for an NFL WR. Major Red Flag for me. I don't care that he caught the ball well in college. You can't convince me that a WR with that tiny of hands will be reliable in cold weather games in the NFL. I would be very reluctant to draft him, just for that reason. It's all the gloves man. No ones making the one handed grabs they make without the gloves and the gloves allow players like Renfrow and Isabella to have no real trouble catching passes. You ever wear the latest gloves before? The ball legit instantly stops and sticks to the glove. Almost all the drops now-a-days are concentration, looking to run(taking eye off the ball) before the catch is made. Not hanging on after contact with ground or player. ...or because you only got a couple finger tips on it(this is where the hand size comes in more than anything because the receiver might have an inch or 2 less radius/reach to gets gloves on an off target throw). All things being equal of course you'll take the receiver with the bigger hands but there are at least a half a dozen qualities more important than the receivers hand size these days when those gloves do the majority of the work. At least imo. Yeah, the gloves make a huge difference for sure, but I still think that there is a point where hand size can become a huge factor in catching the ball, especially in cold weather. Anything under 9" is considered pretty small hands for a WR, and once you get down to 7 3/4"...man, that's awfully small.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 1, 2019 14:57:01 GMT -5
Really good board, MB. I don't see much that I would change. Maybe a few minor tweaks, but all in all, yep. That's really solid. Great work! Thanks, man. I'm sure there will be more tweaks after the Combine, and there were players that I went back and forth on, but I put a lot of though into it, as one of my main goals was keeping the list as short as possible. I also did my best to only include players that seem to hit their preferred measurables ranges, which kept some really good players off the list.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 1, 2019 15:01:54 GMT -5
One thing I will mention, Hunter Renfrow's hands measured at a mere 7 3/4" at the Senior Bowl. That's really, really tiny for an NFL WR. Major Red Flag for me. I don't care that he caught the ball well in college. You can't convince me that a WR with that tiny of hands will be reliable in cold weather games in the NFL. I would be very reluctant to draft him, just for that reason. Yeah, that's incredibly small... which makes his ability to catch the football that much more impressive. I also agree that the cold weather might play a factor, though I'd be willing to take the risk in the middle rounds, as he's just been so good and clutch in college, particularly on the big stage.
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 15:05:35 GMT -5
Just gonna put this out there. I want the Pats to have no part of Kyler Murray in the 1st round.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 1, 2019 15:05:50 GMT -5
Yeah, he was a stud at the college level, drawing comps to Aaron Donald, and was in the early #1 ovearall discussion... however I believe I've read that he might not even be 280 pounds... though I think he'll be fine if he's around 285 at the Combine.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 1, 2019 15:24:02 GMT -5
Just gonna put this out there. I want the Pats to have no part of Kyler Murray in the 1st round. I seem to be in the minority on Murray, as I love the player, despite his relative lack of size. Which players are you keying in on in Rd 1?
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Post by wazzu on Feb 1, 2019 15:47:47 GMT -5
Just gonna put this out there. I want the Pats to have no part of Kyler Murray in the 1st round. If Murray measures 5’10 or better at the combine, I’m interested at the end of Rnd 1 if he’s there. Any shorter than that, I’m out. I just think 5’10 is really borderline for a QB height, and the shorter you go from there, the bigger the issue becomes.
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 15:54:47 GMT -5
Just gonna put this out there. I want the Pats to have no part of Kyler Murray in the 1st round. I seem to be in the minority on Murray, as I love the player, despite his relative lack of size. Which players are you keying in on in Rd 1? It's his interviews not his skills or stature. Have you seen or heard any of them when he is being asked difficult questions about if he is going to play one or the other, if he is going to the combine, if he'll have a pro day, if he's going to the A's training camp? How he can't even be bothered to sit up straight. He seems immature to me and ill prepared to handle this difficult situation and process properly. I have not focused in on particular players yet in the 1st as I typically focus on greatest couple of needs post FA. I have not watched a ton of players yet. A few players I really like so far that I have seen are Samuel, Rapp, Thornhill, Baker, Edwards, Isabella, Renfrow, etc. If they want to take a flyer with a comp 3rd on a guy like Rypien that seems reasonable Considering he is expected to only be a 7th or FA pick I like the LSU RB Brosette a lot in that range for that value. Don't know what his character is suppose to be like or if he can play special teams at all. I want to check out the OT from USC that supposedly never lost a single 1-on-1 rep at the senior bowl which always catches my attention.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 1, 2019 16:24:57 GMT -5
I seem to be in the minority on Murray, as I love the player, despite his relative lack of size. Which players are you keying in on in Rd 1? It's his interviews not his skills or stature. Have you seen or heard any of them when he is being asked difficult questions about if he is going to play one or the other, if he is going to the combine, if he'll have a pro day, if he's going to the A's training camp? How he can't even be bothered to sit up straight. He seems immature to me and ill prepared to handle this difficult situation and process properly. I have not focused in on particular players yet in the 1st as I typically focus on greatest couple of needs post FA. I have not watched a ton of players yet. A few players I really like so far that I have seen are Samuel, Rapp, Thornhill, Baker, Edwards, Isabella, Renfrow, etc. If they want to take a flyer with a comp 3rd on a guy like Rypien that seems reasonable Considering he is expected to only be a 7th or FA pick I like the LSU RB Brosette a lot in that range for that value. Don't know what his character is suppose to be like or if he can play special teams at all. I want to check out the OT from USC that supposedly never lost a single 1-on-1 rep at the senior bowl which always catches my attention. I've seen him talk during the bowl games/playoffs, and during the Heisman, but haven't seen the press conferences/questions that you're referring to. Do you have specific links? I'd def be interested in watching. I agree that Rypien is a solid potential mid-round pick... same with Jordan Ta'amu from Ole Miss... and while he wasn't very good in Shrine practices, I still have an interest in Stick... whether it be a later round pick, or UDFA. Players that I'd recommend taking a look at, if you get a chance: Elijah Holyfield RB- Georgia Riley Ridley WR- Georgia Noah Fant TE- Iowa Irv Smith TE- Alabama Isaac Nauta TE- Georgia Charles Omenihu DL- Texas Julian Love CB- Notre Dame Amani Hooker S- Iowa Khari Willis S- Michigan State Darnell Savage S- Maryland Germaine Pratt LB- NC State Joe Giles-Harris LB- Duke
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 16:49:00 GMT -5
It's his interviews not his skills or stature. Have you seen or heard any of them when he is being asked difficult questions about if he is going to play one or the other, if he is going to the combine, if he'll have a pro day, if he's going to the A's training camp? How he can't even be bothered to sit up straight. He seems immature to me and ill prepared to handle this difficult situation and process properly. I have not focused in on particular players yet in the 1st as I typically focus on greatest couple of needs post FA. I have not watched a ton of players yet. A few players I really like so far that I have seen are Samuel, Rapp, Thornhill, Baker, Edwards, Isabella, Renfrow, etc. If they want to take a flyer with a comp 3rd on a guy like Rypien that seems reasonable Considering he is expected to only be a 7th or FA pick I like the LSU RB Brosette a lot in that range for that value. Don't know what his character is suppose to be like or if he can play special teams at all. I want to check out the OT from USC that supposedly never lost a single 1-on-1 rep at the senior bowl which always catches my attention. I've seen him talk during the bowl games/playoffs, and during the Heisman, but haven't seen the press conferences/questions that you're referring to. Do you have specific links? I'd def be interested in watching. I agree that Rypien is a solid potential mid-round pick... same with Jordan Ta'amu from Ole Miss... and while he wasn't very good in Shrine practices, I still have an interest in Stick... whether it be a later round pick, or UDFA. Players that I'd recommend taking a look at, if you get a chance: Elijah Holyfield RB- Georgia Riley Ridley WR- Georgia Noah Fant TE- Iowa Irv Smith TE- Alabama Isaac Nauta TE- Georgia Charles Omenihu DL- Texas Julian Love CB- Notre Dame Amani Hooker S- Iowa Khari Willis S- Michigan State Darnell Savage S- Maryland Germaine Pratt LB- NC State Joe Giles-Harris LB- Duke thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/01/murrays-troubling-uncertainty-reflects-fathers-fateful-decision/
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Feb 1, 2019 17:19:20 GMT -5
Yeah, he was a stud at the college level, drawing comps to Aaron Donald, and was in the early #1 ovearall discussion... however I believe I've read that he might not even be 280 pounds... though I think he'll be fine if he's around 285 at the Combine. IMO he should convert into a DE. When I look at him, I do not think his frame is that of a 285-290 guy. He looks more like his optimal weight is 277-280 guy. At that, believe he is more than quick enough to play at the edge.
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 18:06:21 GMT -5
Yeah, he was a stud at the college level, drawing comps to Aaron Donald, and was in the early #1 ovearall discussion... however I believe I've read that he might not even be 280 pounds... though I think he'll be fine if he's around 285 at the Combine. IMO he should convert into a DE. When I look at him, I do not think his frame is that of a 285-290 guy. He looks more like his optimal weight is 277-280 guy. At that, believe he is more than quick enough to play at the edge. I thought I read he was more in the 270 range???
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Feb 1, 2019 21:00:05 GMT -5
IMO he should convert into a DE. When I look at him, I do not think his frame is that of a 285-290 guy. He looks more like his optimal weight is 277-280 guy. At that, believe he is more than quick enough to play at the edge. I thought I read he was more in the 270 range??? Even lighter than I thought. Over the last 20 years, has anyone been successful at the NFL level playing interior DL at 270? I can see it for a game or two, but not an entire season.
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 21:05:02 GMT -5
I thought I read he was more in the 270 range??? Even lighter than I thought. Over the last 20 years, has anyone been successful at the NFL level playing interior DL at 270? I can see it for a game or two, but not an entire season. It's hard to say because no one really knows what weight these players are actually "playing" at. Only at weigh-ins for special events and phantom listings on team websites. I have seen people saying they think he might be better off as a DE and even saw one suggest he might be better off slimming down and moving to LB (ala Bruschi style). However also seen people dead against him moving. I have not even watching any of his film and only read some commentary on him.
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Feb 1, 2019 21:06:15 GMT -5
I've seen him talk during the bowl games/playoffs, and during the Heisman, but haven't seen the press conferences/questions that you're referring to. Do you have specific links? I'd def be interested in watching. I agree that Rypien is a solid potential mid-round pick... same with Jordan Ta'amu from Ole Miss... and while he wasn't very good in Shrine practices, I still have an interest in Stick... whether it be a later round pick, or UDFA. Players that I'd recommend taking a look at, if you get a chance: Elijah Holyfield RB- Georgia Riley Ridley WR- Georgia Noah Fant TE- Iowa Irv Smith TE- Alabama Isaac Nauta TE- Georgia Charles Omenihu DL- Texas Julian Love CB- Notre Dame Amani Hooker S- Iowa Khari Willis S- Michigan State Darnell Savage S- Maryland Germaine Pratt LB- NC State Joe Giles-Harris LB- Duke thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/01/murrays-troubling-uncertainty-reflects-fathers-fateful-decision/I do not think any team will take him high in the draft. He is not showing commitment. If we are talking about a RB or a WR, that attitude might not matter as much. We are talking about the QB spot - the leader of the entire 53-man roster. No smart, self-respecting GM is gonna throw away a first or second round pick on someone who cannot make up his mind and commit to playing football and becoming one of the best at the position.
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 21:40:53 GMT -5
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Feb 1, 2019 21:42:21 GMT -5
Even lighter than I thought. Over the last 20 years, has anyone been successful at the NFL level playing interior DL at 270? I can see it for a game or two, but not an entire season. It's hard to say because no one really knows what weight these players are actually "playing" at. Only at weigh-ins for special events and phantom listings on team websites. I have seen people saying they think he might be better off as a DE and even saw one suggest he might be better off slimming down and moving to LB (ala Bruschi style). However also seen people dead against him moving. I have not even watching any of his film and only read some commentary on him. Bruschi? I don't see it. I can see him converting into a James Harrison - a slightly bigger version.
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Post by lowfbiq on Feb 1, 2019 21:47:26 GMT -5
It's hard to say because no one really knows what weight these players are actually "playing" at. Only at weigh-ins for special events and phantom listings on team websites. I have seen people saying they think he might be better off as a DE and even saw one suggest he might be better off slimming down and moving to LB (ala Bruschi style). However also seen people dead against him moving. I have not even watching any of his film and only read some commentary on him. Bruschi? I don't see it. I can see him converting into a James Harrison - a slightly bigger version. I have not seen the person move or play. If he is as athletic as my impression has become reading how people talk about him and he really is closer to that 270 mark it seems possible. Hightower is 265. Adalius Thomas was 270. Some combination of DE/LB is not out of the question if he is really athletic
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Post by seattlepat2016 on Feb 1, 2019 22:13:03 GMT -5
Bruschi? I don't see it. I can see him converting into a James Harrison - a slightly bigger version. I have not seen the person move or play but if he is as athletic as my impression has become reading how people talk about him and he really is closer to that 270 mark. Hightower is 265. Adalius Thomas was 270. Some combination of DE/LB is not out of the question is he is really athletic Playing inside, he's had to rely more on his explosive power and technique to get leverage than his athleticism. Every now and then he finds himself in a bit of space and you will see glimpses of athletic ability. He does look 270 next to OLs prior the snap. Somehow he is able to push a bigger G or T back when on-on-one. He often gets doubled or sometimes tripled. Anyway, if he is truly 270, for his sake, I hope he does not get drafted to be a DT. On the other hand, I don't think any team will draft him early to play at the edge. IMO this class has a lot of good edge rushers who are closer to contributing as edge rushers at the next level. I would not be surprised if the drops outside of the first round.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 2, 2019 7:22:42 GMT -5
RE: Ed Oliver...
I think if he's around 270, that he'll end up playing up and down the LOS, as keep in mind that teams are already kicking edge rushers inside on obvious passing downs (i.e. Trey Flowers) to get more pure pass-rushers on the field.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 2, 2019 7:27:23 GMT -5
He looks like an ideal mid-round/day 3 space eater that can come and clog things up vs. the run, but prob doesn't offer much as a pass-rusher. I like the player, and he's on my board.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Feb 2, 2019 7:33:34 GMT -5
I do not think any team will take him high in the draft. He is not showing commitment. If we are talking about a RB or a WR, that attitude might not matter as much. We are talking about the QB spot - the leader of the entire 53-man roster. No smart, self-respecting GM is gonna throw away a first or second round pick on someone who cannot make up his mind and commit to playing football and becoming one of the best at the position. Thanks. And yeah, not exactly the confidence inspiring footage that you want to see of someone that you'd want to make the face of your franchise. Not at all saying that he couldn't be, or that he's a bad kid, but it's an optics thing, and sure looks uncertain of what he wants to do, career wise. And as far as things go in NE, we know BB wants players with impeccable football character, that eat, sleep and breath the game 24/7, and this isn't the vibe that he's giving off here. Gonna be an interesting story to follow throughout the pre-draft process.
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