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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 9, 2019 23:44:35 GMT -5
Top 5 TEs by PFF rank:1. Hock 2. Fant 3. Sternberger 4. Smith Jr 5. Oliver So what do you think the Pats should do at TE? I think Fant is rated where he is based on projections, primarily because of his athleticism. He is also a good red zone target. He is also benefitting from what George Kittle just did this past season coming from the same school and it's still fresh in everyone's mind. Do I think "right now" he deserves the hype people are using with him? I personally do not. I do not think there is any TE close to Gronk in this class, including Hock. Hock seems to be the one who could reach being able to be a solid all-around TE the soonest. To me, after Hock, you are really looking to fill a specific role with a specific choice. I think Irv Smith might be the most day 1 ready/polished move TE for the NFL game. However I would not want to take him in the 1st round. ...and I am not sure if he would be there however late in the 2nd round due to the scarcity of decent TE's in this class. Smith Jr has also been very productive at a young age, although it helps playing for a power house with a good QB. So to be clear I think this TE class is OK. I don't think it is anything great or special. I still happen to think two of the TEs the Pats have on the roster can play. Hollister and Anderson. They are both move TEs, imo. They are also both better "tested" athletes than almost all the TE's in this draft class. Last training camp we were hearing stories that Hollister was one of the most dominant players on the field. I also think part of Hollisters problem staying healthy is him trying to carry the weight and strength the Pats ideally want from the position. Which is why I feel like they might be looking at someone like Sternberger. He is an adequate athlete like Irv Smith, more likely to be available in the 2nd when they are on the clock. Had good production against good competition in the SEC. Has the frame to carry even a little more weight. ...so with his overall length/size good hands and experience in the passing game(running a significant amount of routes last season) they might be projecting him as a possible eventual all-around TE. You can certain teach someone to be a better blocker and Scar is right there. I don't think the Pats have shown any interest in him but the player I really like a lot, partially for where you can probably draft him, is Josh Oliver. I did not have a lot of his stats so he wasn't showing in many of those rankings. He is also a basketball player. A better tested athlete than Irv Smith Jr or Sternberger. Taller, Bigger hands, longer arms, jumps higher, etc. I like his upside. He also shows some traits, doing some things that I do not see the others doing. He can show really good body control adjusting to off target throws & contested catches. The next pure move TE for me would be Caleb Wilson. The next all-around potential would be Dawson Knox. Other good athletes for the position like Warring is still learning the position, not the most natural receiver. Hard nosed try hard guy. Foster Moreau, plays no where near his timed speed in the passing game. Has to ramp it way down for the passing game right now at this stage of development. A good value TE might be a guy like Keenen Brown not expected to go till much later in the draft. If you want blocking TEs, Drew Sample, Issaac Nauta, Trevon Wesco all had good blocking grades per PFF. Not sure if any of that opinion helps at all, and others like MB might completely disagree. I'm not sure there is a TE in the class worth extensively reaching for(chasing) is I guess what I would say. ...but as you or someone else mentioned in another post, supply and demand will push some of the TEs higher/earlier.
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Post by garytx on Apr 10, 2019 0:08:19 GMT -5
The TE they pick will be one whose abilities were not exposed due to the offensive scenes did not take advantage of their athletic ability.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 10, 2019 0:12:41 GMT -5
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2019 8:24:06 GMT -5
Top 5 TEs by PFF rank:1. Hock 2. Fant 3. Sternberger 4. Smith Jr 5. Oliver Good bring with all these lists!
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Post by wazzu on Apr 10, 2019 8:28:48 GMT -5
So what do you think the Pats should do at TE? I think Fant is rated where he is based on projections, primarily because of his athleticism. He is also a good red zone target. He is also benefitting from what George Kittle just did this past season coming from the same school and it's still fresh in everyone's mind. Do I think "right now" he deserves the hype people are using with him? I personally do not. I do not think there is any TE close to Gronk in this class, including Hock. Hock seems to be the one who could reach being able to be a solid all-around TE the soonest. To me, after Hock, you are really looking to fill a specific role with a specific choice. I think Irv Smith might be the most day 1 ready/polished move TE for the NFL game. However I would not want to take him in the 1st round. ...and I am not sure if he would be there however late in the 2nd round due to the scarcity of decent TE's in this class. Smith Jr has also been very productive at a young age, although it helps playing for a power house with a good QB. So to be clear I think this TE class is OK. I don't think it is anything great or special. I still happen to think two of the TEs the Pats have on the roster can play. Hollister and Anderson. They are both move TEs, imo. They are also both better "tested" athletes than almost all the TE's in this draft class. Last training camp we were hearing stories that Hollister was one of the most dominant players on the field. I also think part of Hollisters problem staying healthy is him trying to carry the weight and strength the Pats ideally want from the position. Which is why I feel like they might be looking at someone like Sternberger. He is an adequate athlete like Irv Smith, more likely to be available in the 2nd when they are on the clock. Had good production against good competition in the SEC. Has the frame to carry even a little more weight. ...so with his overall length/size good hands and experience in the passing game(running a significant amount of routes last season) they might be projecting him as a possible eventual all-around TE. You can certain teach someone to be a better blocker and Scar is right there. I don't think the Pats have shown any interest in him but the player I really like a lot, partially for where you can probably draft him, is Josh Oliver. I did not have a lot of his stats so he wasn't showing in many of those rankings. He is also a basketball player. A better tested athlete than Irv Smith Jr or Sternberger. Taller, Bigger hands, longer arms, jumps higher, etc. I like his upside. He also shows some traits, doing some things that I do not see the others doing. He can show really good body control adjusting to off target throws & contested catches. The next pure move TE for me would be Caleb Wilson. The next all-around potential would be Dawson Knox. Other good athletes for the position like Warring is still learning the position, not the most natural receiver. Hard nosed try hard guy. Foster Moreau, plays no where near his timed speed in the passing game. Has to ramp it way down for the passing game right now at this stage of development. A good value TE might be a guy like Keenen Brown not expected to go till much later in the draft. If you want blocking TEs, Drew Sample, Issaac Nauta, Trevon Wesco all had good blocking grades per PFF. Not sure if any of that opinion helps at all, and others like MB might completely disagree. I'm not sure there is a TE in the class worth extensively reaching for(chasing) is I guess what I would say. ...but as you or someone else mentioned in another post, supply and demand will push some of the TEs higher/earlier. Good stuff, Low. I do think that this TE class is really good, but you're right. A lot of these guys are well suited to fill a specific role and need development in other areas. That doesn't bother me because I trust Belichick so much. Great job with the lists you've been providing, by the way.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2019 8:36:36 GMT -5
The TE they pick will be one whose abilities were not exposed due to the offensive scenes did not take advantage of their athletic ability. And those players would be: Dawson Knox Ole Miss Kahale Warring San Diego State Foster Moreau LSU All showed to be good athletes, but didn't produce a ton for varying reasons. With Knox, it was mostly their offense was kinda bunk... and they had a lot of mouths to feed, and with Warring and Moreau, they were hindered a bit by more of a ground-based offense... though it did help them develop as inline blockers.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2019 8:38:54 GMT -5
He's certainly been a hot name in recent days... and part of that is due to the news that he's visited. Def a realistic option though, yes.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2019 8:42:46 GMT -5
So what do you think the Pats should do at TE? I think Fant is rated where he is based on projections, primarily because of his athleticism. He is also a good red zone target. He is also benefitting from what George Kittle just did this past season coming from the same school and it's still fresh in everyone's mind. Do I think "right now" he deserves the hype people are using with him? I personally do not. I do not think there is any TE close to Gronk in this class, including Hock. Hock seems to be the one who could reach being able to be a solid all-around TE the soonest. To me, after Hock, you are really looking to fill a specific role with a specific choice. I think Irv Smith might be the most day 1 ready/polished move TE for the NFL game. However I would not want to take him in the 1st round. ...and I am not sure if he would be there however late in the 2nd round due to the scarcity of decent TE's in this class. Smith Jr has also been very productive at a young age, although it helps playing for a power house with a good QB. So to be clear I think this TE class is OK. I don't think it is anything great or special. I still happen to think two of the TEs the Pats have on the roster can play. Hollister and Anderson. They are both move TEs, imo. They are also both better "tested" athletes than almost all the TE's in this draft class. Last training camp we were hearing stories that Hollister was one of the most dominant players on the field. I also think part of Hollisters problem staying healthy is him trying to carry the weight and strength the Pats ideally want from the position. Which is why I feel like they might be looking at someone like Sternberger. He is an adequate athlete like Irv Smith, more likely to be available in the 2nd when they are on the clock. Had good production against good competition in the SEC. Has the frame to carry even a little more weight. ...so with his overall length/size good hands and experience in the passing game(running a significant amount of routes last season) they might be projecting him as a possible eventual all-around TE. You can certain teach someone to be a better blocker and Scar is right there. I don't think the Pats have shown any interest in him but the player I really like a lot, partially for where you can probably draft him, is Josh Oliver. I did not have a lot of his stats so he wasn't showing in many of those rankings. He is also a basketball player. A better tested athlete than Irv Smith Jr or Sternberger. Taller, Bigger hands, longer arms, jumps higher, etc. I like his upside. He also shows some traits, doing some things that I do not see the others doing. He can show really good body control adjusting to off target throws & contested catches. The next pure move TE for me would be Caleb Wilson. The next all-around potential would be Dawson Knox. Other good athletes for the position like Warring is still learning the position, not the most natural receiver. Hard nosed try hard guy. Foster Moreau, plays no where near his timed speed in the passing game. Has to ramp it way down for the passing game right now at this stage of development. A good value TE might be a guy like Keenen Brown not expected to go till much later in the draft. If you want blocking TEs, Drew Sample, Issaac Nauta, Trevon Wesco all had good blocking grades per PFF. Not sure if any of that opinion helps at all, and others like MB might completely disagree. I'm not sure there is a TE in the class worth extensively reaching for(chasing) is I guess what I would say. ...but as you or someone else mentioned in another post, supply and demand will push some of the TEs higher/earlier. Good post. While I'm prob higher overall on this TE class than you are, and our individual rankings do vary a little, but I do agree that they're prob not "extensively reaching" for any of these TE prospects. Trade up into the 20's if Hockenson is available there (I see a 0% chance that he is)? Sure... or maybe a few spots if they covet another TE in Rd 1? Sure... but I agree that they're not giving up big capital to move way up into the Top 15 or so, to select a TE.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 8:58:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 9:14:22 GMT -5
Bill just said something interesting, he said moving up in a Round you have to study all teams in all Rounds, if you think about moving up. In other words, Pick 40, might be the problem, if another team has it, if your looking at a specific player, and you think they might want him. This is just not 1st Round specific. Lot of strategy, and work.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 10, 2019 9:39:03 GMT -5
Heat Map of NFL teams player visits by position. Pats picked a good year(draft class) to have heavy interest in WRs.
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Post by Wozzy on Apr 10, 2019 9:43:21 GMT -5
I'd just add Jonathan Jones to the mix, when they play smaller quicker guys he'll get the starting nod opposite Gilmore. I'd say NE's defensive backfield when healthy is the best in the NFL.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 9:51:46 GMT -5
BB went out of his way to watch Miami kid, and made sure he Drafted him. Didn't play this year, but I cannot see looking that hard on a specific player, and totally swing and miss. Duke Dawson. He's almost like a Draft Pick, this year.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 10, 2019 9:59:25 GMT -5
BB went out of his way to watch Miami kid, and made sure he Drafted him. Didn't play this year, but I cannot see looking that hard on a specific player, and totally swing and miss. Duke Dawson. He's almost like a Draft Pick, this year. The only thing we know about him so far is that last season, as a rookie, he wasn't good enough to beat anyone out of a job on the Pats. Last year is last year, on to 2019, lets see how he progresses.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 10, 2019 10:05:43 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 10:21:01 GMT -5
Still might look around in the 7th at a Kicker.
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Post by patslifer on Apr 10, 2019 10:35:25 GMT -5
Not sure if any of that opinion helps at all, and others like MB might completely disagree. I'm not sure there is a TE in the class worth extensively reaching for(chasing) is I guess what I would say. ...but as you or someone else mentioned in another post, supply and demand will push some of the TEs higher/earlier. Thanks for the detailed post. Yes it helps. I think it confirms a lot of what I was thinking but hadn't completely sorted out. Through all of the top 5 TE stats you posted, Fant, Sternberger, Smith seem to be 2-3-4 respectively. I think any one of those guys in round 2 would satisfy a need of a big receiving target that can create mis matches, with varying degrees of blocking and receiving ability. The question I had is with Lacosse. I think he is a lock with what money they committed to him. Hollister/Anderson/Izzo I have no idea. Of the 3 prospects listed above, do any one of them provide a better complementary piece combined with Lacosse in a 2 TE set than the others? Or asked a different way, which of the 3 above prospects provide the best complementary piece when combined with Lacosse in the 2 TE set package?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 11:15:39 GMT -5
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2019 11:27:45 GMT -5
Def one of the better blocking WR's that I've seen in this cycle.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 10, 2019 12:33:49 GMT -5
Two of the top 10 WR route runners in this class are why they had success in college, because it certainly wasn't their speed or athleticism.
Ridley & Renfrow
Other top route running WRs in this class imo are:
Stanley Morgan Jakobi Meyers Deebo Samuel Keelan Doss Keesean Johnson Diontae Johnson DeMarkus Lodge Terry McLaurin Darius Slayton Cody Thompson Marquise Brown
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 12:45:06 GMT -5
Pats got Jones and Grier in for a Visit today.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 10, 2019 13:10:17 GMT -5
This is what happens when you are a dope and get yourself uninvited to the combine
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Post by thejuice on Apr 10, 2019 13:18:20 GMT -5
BB went out of his way to watch Miami kid, and made sure he Drafted him. Didn't play this year, but I cannot see looking that hard on a specific player, and totally swing and miss. Duke Dawson. He's almost like a Draft Pick, this year. The only thing we know about him so far is that last season, as a rookie, he wasn't good enough to beat anyone out of a job on the Pats. Last year is last year, on to 2019, lets see how he progresses. True but he was out with an injury for a large part of the season, likely a huge if not the sole reason he couldn’t get onto the field at the end of the season.
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Post by mbeaulieu07 on Apr 10, 2019 13:20:49 GMT -5
Two of the top 10 WR route runners in this class are why they had success in college, because it certainly wasn't their speed or athleticism. Ridley & Renfrow Other top route running WRs in this class imo are: Stanley Morgan Jakobi Meyers Deebo Samuel Keelan Doss Keesean Johnson Diontae Johnson DeMarkus Lodge Terry McLaurin Darius Slayton Cody Thompson Marquise Brown Agreed on Ridley and Renfrow. I also think JJAW is very good. His TD vs. Oregon (first thing shown in the tape below) is fantastic... completely dusts his guy, in man coverage.
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Post by lowfbiq on Apr 10, 2019 13:27:48 GMT -5
The only thing we know about him so far is that last season, as a rookie, he wasn't good enough to beat anyone out of a job on the Pats. Last year is last year, on to 2019, lets see how he progresses. True but he was out with an injury for a large part of the season, likely a huge if not the sole reason he couldn’t get onto the field at the end of the season. He was with the team all year, went through the indoctrination period before stored away for the 1st half of the regular season. Activated the bye week so he had the whole bye week to practice, the next 6 weeks of the regular season to practice and beat someone out. Another bye week to practice and beat someone out and two more playoff weeks to practice and beat someone out before the superbowl. Never beat anyone out. He was pick 56. Like I said, it will be interesting to see how he progresses this year. He basically has all the same dudes in front of him and if they draft or bring in another UDFA to compete he'll have to contend with that competition as well. Some guys it takes a little longer but it wasn't like he came from a lower level of play. Hoping for the best.
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