|
Post by irishmob7 on Apr 27, 2016 9:36:45 GMT -5
Agree Kraft should have been much more aggressive as soon as he was stabbed in the back the first time. Instead he bent over. Clearly, he values his partners above all others. Time for Jonathan to take over. As far as the PA getting an injunction-not a given under after an Appeals Court decision like this. The farther up the chain you go the more reluctant judges are to tread on someone else's toes. That being said, Bernan only had an 8% rate of being overturned so who knows. The opinion against him, white very strongly worded, dies make some leaps of faith that were referenced in the dissension by the Chief Justice. That might just open the door to a panel review as a mini en banc to kind of take the Vourt's temperature about whether a full RB banc hearing is warranted. That's the best we can hope for at this point barring Goodell having an fatal attack and leaving this planet. He may value his partners but IMO I think he values the power he wields among the owners more. He is the Chairman of the Broadcast Committee, he is on Management Council Executive Committee, NFL Network Committee, Finance Committee and Compensation Committee. If he had filed a lawsuit he most likely would have lost some of that power. Bottom line he should have filed the lawsuit stepped down as acting owner and put Jonathan in charge. Jonathan is a bulldog and would have gone to the mat for Brady and the fans. IMO RK worries more about his perception nationally than he does locally. My .02 cents. Perfectly stated, JRI. The fact that he's more concerned about losing money/power at the age of 74 than defending his brand/"son" speaks volumes about his character, imo.
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Apr 27, 2016 11:59:24 GMT -5
Really, I think the people to blame are more probably than not McNally and Jastremski. Think about it.. this whole thing hangs on one piece of information - the fact McNally took the bag of footballs into the restroom. The NFL hangs this entire thing on their belief in the 90 seconds in the restroom McNally needled each of the footballs. That is their entire circumstantial case. I think the term "deflate" also weighed heavily in this situation I mean seriously...weight loss?
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Apr 27, 2016 12:01:43 GMT -5
isn't it amazing that they have managed to not say a word this entire time? No benefit to them in talking, especially if they did it. well yeah...that's the point if one of them came out and said they did it on their own, and Brady had zero knowledge of the fact, wouldn't the team lose the draft picks, and pay the fine, but Brady be exonerated? yet crickets....hmmmm
|
|
|
Post by jri37 on Apr 27, 2016 12:18:35 GMT -5
No benefit to them in talking, especially if they did it. well yeah...that's the point if one of them came out and said they did it on their own, and Brady had zero knowledge of the fact, wouldn't the team lose the draft picks, and pay the fine, but Brady be exonerated? yet crickets....hmmmm Interesting... So are you saying the in their investigation/interrogation Wells/NFL Lawyers failed to ask these 2 clowns directly if they did it? I'm assuming they asked and they said no and thats why we didn't see it in the Wells report or it wasn't leaked. I'm assuming since they haven't spoken since they have some sort of confidentiality agreement with the team that precludes them from speaking.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 13:40:56 GMT -5
Really, I think the people to blame are more probably than not McNally and Jastremski. Think about it.. this whole thing hangs on one piece of information - the fact McNally took the bag of footballs into the restroom. The NFL hangs this entire thing on their belief in the 90 seconds in the restroom McNally needled each of the footballs. That is their entire circumstantial case. Hah Bill, you know there's a lot more than that. You may not accept the evidence, but it's still there. I lean about 60-40 toward McNally having actually deflated the balls. I lean about 40-60 to Brady being completely unaware.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 13:50:17 GMT -5
No benefit to them in talking, especially if they did it. well yeah...that's the point if one of them came out and said they did it on their own, and Brady had zero knowledge of the fact, wouldn't the team lose the draft picks, and pay the fine, but Brady be exonerated? yet crickets....hmmmm Yeah, if they did it and did it without Brady's knowledge, they could have confessed and spared Brady. There are three scenarios:
1. They didn't do it. In this case, why not come out and talk in public? Maybe they'd want to protect their privacy, but really their names are out there anyway. Why not defend their reputations?
2. They did it and Brady knew. In this case, it's obvious they'd want to keep quiet.
3. They did it and Brady didn't know. In this case, they might want to protect themselves (and the team) by being quiet, but they help Brady by talking.
|
|
|
Post by irishmob7 on Apr 27, 2016 13:53:28 GMT -5
Think about it.. this whole thing hangs on one piece of information - the fact McNally took the bag of footballs into the restroom. The NFL hangs this entire thing on their belief in the 90 seconds in the restroom McNally needled each of the footballs. That is their entire circumstantial case. Hah Bill, you know there's a lot more than that. You may not accept the evidence, but it's still there. I lean about 60-40 toward McNally having actually deflated the balls. I lean about 40-60 to Brady being completely unaware.
Wow. So you believe that there is a decent possibility that the star QB of "your" team openly lied under oath thus making him a criminal? Your hot take on the matter keeps getting more interesting. More at 11.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 13:57:48 GMT -5
Hah Bill, you know there's a lot more than that. You may not accept the evidence, but it's still there. I lean about 60-40 toward McNally having actually deflated the balls. I lean about 40-60 to Brady being completely unaware.
Wow. So you believe that there is a decent possibility that the star QB of "your" team openly lied under oath thus making him a criminal? Your hot take on the matter keeps getting more interesting. More at 11. I lean toward Brady being honest, but enough players have lied in the past for me not to be a pollyanna about such things. Just look at the long list of PED users who maintained their innocence right up until the evidence was undeniable.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 14:39:57 GMT -5
Hah Bill, you know there's a lot more than that. You may not accept the evidence, but it's still there. I lean about 60-40 toward McNally having actually deflated the balls. I lean about 40-60 to Brady being completely unaware.
Wow. So you believe that there is a decent possibility that the star QB of "your" team openly lied under oath thus making him a criminal? Your hot take on the matter keeps getting more interesting. More at 11. Any decent person would realize that Brady isn't going to lie under oath about some deflated footballs, nor are two nobody employees going to take up defrauding the league by their own will. Only low-life jerks are ignoring that obvious logic. Then you throw in the science and lack of any real evidence, and you see what somebody is made of when they express a depraved opinion that some cheating occurred.
|
|
|
Post by croc on Apr 27, 2016 15:01:56 GMT -5
Really, I think the people to blame are more probably than not McNally and Jastremski. I actually mostly agree with this. Brady flat out told them the balls should be between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI. That's after the Jets game where the refs blew them up to as much as 16 psi. Brady also told the clubhouse guys how he wants his helmet, shoulder pads, uniform etc too. He expects them to provide what he wants. He's got more important things than to hover over them and tell them how to do their job. The ONLY way air was removed before the AFCCG was if the balls were over-inflated as the IGL shows they started around 12.5psi. Not too coincidentally the Colts ball boy who fingered them was caught on the sidelines with a needle, and last year grabbed an intercepted ball away from a Bill player. ESPN had a poll of players about 80% say other teams tamper with balls. Sounds to me like the refs are lazy with the balls either accept them or randomly add/subtract air and the attendants do what they can to get them to the QB's requirements. Fact is I know a man who works for the Pats and that's essentially the story I heard. Yes the Pats tampered, so by the way did the Colts. It's not for a 'competitive adv' it's to get the balls within the specs they should be because the refs suck. The balls were over-inflated because of the Ravens bitching about balls from the week before.
|
|
|
Post by philskiw on Apr 27, 2016 17:53:51 GMT -5
Really, I think the people to blame are more probably than not McNally and Jastremski. I actually mostly agree with this. Brady flat out told them the balls should be between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI. That's after the Jets game where the refs blew them up to as much as 16 psi. Brady also told the clubhouse guys how he wants his helmet, shoulder pads, uniform etc too. He expects them to provide what he wants. He's got more important things than to hover over them and tell them how to do their job. The ONLY way air was removed before the AFCCG was if the balls were over-inflated as the IGL shows they started around 12.5psi. Not too coincidentally the Colts ball boy who fingered them was caught on the sidelines with a needle, and last year grabbed an intercepted ball away from a Bill player. ESPN had a poll of players about 80% say other teams tamper with balls. Sounds to me like the refs are lazy with the balls either accept them or randomly add/subtract air and the attendants do what they can to get them to the QB's requirements. Fact is I know a man who works for the Pats and that's essentially the story I heard. Yes the Pats tampered, so by the way did the Colts. It's not for a 'competitive adv' it's to get the balls within the specs they should be because the refs suck. The balls were over-inflated because of the Ravens bitching about balls from the week before. Let me get this straight. Your saying that a buddy of yours, that works for the pats, said the guy went in the restroom with the intention of letting air out of the footballs. Really now
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 27, 2016 18:06:37 GMT -5
I actually mostly agree with this. Brady flat out told them the balls should be between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI. That's after the Jets game where the refs blew them up to as much as 16 psi. Brady also told the clubhouse guys how he wants his helmet, shoulder pads, uniform etc too. He expects them to provide what he wants. He's got more important things than to hover over them and tell them how to do their job. The ONLY way air was removed before the AFCCG was if the balls were over-inflated as the IGL shows they started around 12.5psi. Not too coincidentally the Colts ball boy who fingered them was caught on the sidelines with a needle, and last year grabbed an intercepted ball away from a Bill player. ESPN had a poll of players about 80% say other teams tamper with balls. Sounds to me like the refs are lazy with the balls either accept them or randomly add/subtract air and the attendants do what they can to get them to the QB's requirements. Fact is I know a man who works for the Pats and that's essentially the story I heard. Yes the Pats tampered, so by the way did the Colts. It's not for a 'competitive adv' it's to get the balls within the specs they should be because the refs suck. The balls were over-inflated because of the Ravens bitching about balls from the week before. Let me get this straight. Your saying that a buddy of yours, that works for the pats, said the guy went in the restroom with the intention of letting air out of the footballs. Really now It's hearsay of course, but it certainly would be interesting if the Pats' staff was aware of ball tampering and thought it was all right just because "everybody does it." Would support my contention that Bob Kraft maybe needs to look at his organization a little more carefully to ensure the safeguards are in place to prevent cheating. Could be a workplace culture problem. I'm serious about this. I worry Kraft is the kind of guy who just assumes everything he does is right and good. That can be a dangerous trait in a leader when bad things actually get done because the leader can't admit or see the bad things until they really damage him or his organization.
|
|
|
Post by seawolf on Apr 27, 2016 18:52:50 GMT -5
Wow. So you believe that there is a decent possibility that the star QB of "your" team openly lied under oath thus making him a criminal? Your hot take on the matter keeps getting more interesting. More at 11. Any decent person would realize that Brady isn't going to lie under oath about some deflated footballs, nor are two nobody employees going to take up defrauding the league by their own will. Only low-life jerks are ignoring that obvious logic. Then you throw in the science and lack of any real evidence, and you see what somebody is made of when they express a depraved opinion that some cheating occurred. Just goes to show that Ted is po'd that Brady snubbed Obama. The only way anyone can say there was tampering is if the science showed it But some people like Ted here, Felger, mad dog, Tsnguay are just too smart for everyone else Street smarts is not their longsuit.
|
|
|
Post by croc on Apr 27, 2016 18:54:23 GMT -5
Let me get this straight. Your saying that a buddy of yours, that works for the pats, said the guy went in the restroom with the intention of letting air out of the footballs. Really now It's hearsay of course, but it certainly would be interesting if the Pats' staff was aware of ball tampering and thought it was all right just because "everybody does it." Would support my contention that Bob Kraft maybe needs to look at his organization a little more carefully to ensure the safeguards are in place to prevent cheating. Could be a workplace culture problem. I'm serious about this. I worry Kraft is the kind of guy who just assumes everything he does is right and good. That can be a dangerous trait in a leader when bad things actually get done because the leader can't admit or see the bad things until they really damage him or his organization.
Actually my friend is related to this employee by marriage, and we both worked with the employee's sister. She no longer works with us. I would call them very respectable people. I doubt the general scheme was known. I believe that was up to the equipment people to concoct. They just found a way to do what they had to do to make up for the refs incompetence/indifference. 98.5 and others have been saying for a long time "something happened" I think this is pretty much it. What is amazing is this whole short vs long needle thing is garbage as the refs did not check the pressure pregame. They just pumped up balls from both teams.And somehow both were reduced to ~ the requirements...Mr "I Have a needle on the sidelines" Sullivan
|
|
|
Post by jri37 on Apr 27, 2016 18:59:12 GMT -5
It's hearsay of course, but it certainly would be interesting if the Pats' staff was aware of ball tampering and thought it was all right just because "everybody does it." Would support my contention that Bob Kraft maybe needs to look at his organization a little more carefully to ensure the safeguards are in place to prevent cheating. Could be a workplace culture problem. I'm serious about this. I worry Kraft is the kind of guy who just assumes everything he does is right and good. That can be a dangerous trait in a leader when bad things actually get done because the leader can't admit or see the bad things until they really damage him or his organization.
Actually my friend is related to this employee by marriage, and we both worked with the employee's sister. She no longer works with us. I would call them very respectable people. I doubt the general scheme was known. I believe that was up to the equipment people to concoct. They just found a way to do what they had to do to make up for the refs incompetence/indifference. 98.5 and others have been saying for a long time "something happened" I think this is pretty much it. What is amazing is this whole short vs long needle thing is garbage as the refs did not check the pressure pregame. They just pumped up balls from both teams.And somehow both were reduced to ~ the requirements...Mr "I Have a needle on the sidelines" Sullivan Are you saying that both Dorito Dink and his partner both lied to Wells and the NFL investigators?
|
|
|
Post by pezz4pats on Apr 27, 2016 19:12:13 GMT -5
Let me get this straight. Your saying that a buddy of yours, that works for the pats, said the guy went in the restroom with the intention of letting air out of the footballs. Really now It's hearsay of course, but it certainly would be interesting if the Pats' staff was aware of ball tampering and thought it was all right just because "everybody does it." Would support my contention that Bob Kraft maybe needs to look at his organization a little more carefully to ensure the safeguards are in place to prevent cheating. Could be a workplace culture problem. I'm serious about this. I worry Kraft is the kind of guy who just assumes everything he does is right and good. That can be a dangerous trait in a leader when bad things actually get done because the leader can't admit or see the bad things until they really damage him or his organization.
Oh jeeze. Or it could be they did nothing wrong and he trusts his leaders to make the right decisions. The Pats went through considerable lengths to prove their innocence. A reasonable person would conclude this wasn't an everyone does it type of thing. Tom Brady who said he would go to his grave knowing he did nothing wrong,and swore under oath, has been fighting to restore his and the teams reputation for 466 days now with no end in sight.... does not seem like an everyone does it, course of action. I think you'd believe anything stupid because that's what you believe, (stupidity), but shun the truth and that's a dam shame. Do you know there's 50,000 people waiting for season tickets? You might want surrender yours to someone who doesn't think the Pats are cheats and their Billionaire owner isn't a dumb fk. If they're is actually someone working for the Pats saying that crap then he's the one who needs to be fired from what ever concession stand he works at but I doubt Kraft would be the one to do it.
|
|
|
Post by croc on Apr 27, 2016 20:22:20 GMT -5
Are you saying that both Dorito Dink and his partner both lied to Wells and the NFL investigators? If they were asked about Brady's involvement they did not. We don't know what what they were asked as it was never published. If Wells/Pash cared about what they said would it not have been part of the Wells/Pash Report and NFL hearing? Obviously it was not important to the Wells/Pash report. Isn't anyone concerned the Refs lied about pregame testing? They did not do it. The so-called logoed and non logoed (piece of crap) gauge pregame testing NEVER happened. The only info we have is the date collected as half time data.
|
|
|
Post by bubba on Apr 27, 2016 20:25:39 GMT -5
plenty of blame to go around; including nfl/goodell, NFL players union, Kraft, and Brady. I think it would be entertaining if Brady appealed the recent decision to uphold goodell's original suspension
|
|
|
Post by jri37 on Apr 27, 2016 20:39:02 GMT -5
Are you saying that both Dorito Dink and his partner both lied to Wells and the NFL investigators? If they were asked about Brady's involvement they did not. We don't know what what they were asked as it was never published. If Wells/Pash cared about what they said would it not have been part of the Wells/Pash Report and NFL hearing? Obviously it was not important to the Wells/Pash report. Isn't anyone concerned the Refs lied about pregame testing? They did not do it. The so-called logoed and non logoed (piece of crap) gauge pregame testing NEVER happened. The only info we have is the date collected as half time data. I know the NFL is inept when it comes to investigations and punishments but McNally was questioned multiple times and Jaestresmski at least once and they weren't asked if they did it? I think they were asked and the Wells/NFL just refused to put it into the report because it didn't fit the narrative the NFL was trying to portray. You are 100% correct the NFL was/is trying to cover their ass in regards to pre-game protocols. The leadership in the NFL besides being clowns are just plain old corrupt.
|
|
|
Post by tcal2 on Apr 29, 2016 18:04:37 GMT -5
Now this is what I'm Talking about.
"The NFL Players Association has added high-profile attorney Theodore B. Olson to its legal team."
|
|
|
Post by pezz4pats on Apr 29, 2016 18:13:13 GMT -5
Now this is what I'm Talking about. "The NFL Players Association has added high-profile attorney Theodore B. Olson to its legal team." Ya they also asked for another 2 weeks to prepare their appeal, to get him up to speed. Of course it will be denied. Mfrs. Brady ain't messin around.
|
|
|
Post by portfolio1 on Apr 29, 2016 19:54:56 GMT -5
It's good to have you here. You can be our new legal expert not that we have lost zbellino! ZBELLINO WAS GOOD WITH THIS STUFF. He always answered everyone's questions. He was cool. He was like the yoda on this board. BRING BACK ZBELLINO. LONG LIVE ZBELLINO.
|
|
|
Post by agcsbill on Apr 30, 2016 8:22:10 GMT -5
well yeah...that's the point if one of them came out and said they did it on their own, and Brady had zero knowledge of the fact, wouldn't the team lose the draft picks, and pay the fine, but Brady be exonerated? yet crickets....hmmmm Yeah, if they did it and did it without Brady's knowledge, they could have confessed and spared Brady. There are three scenarios:
1. They didn't do it. In this case, why not come out and talk in public? Maybe they'd want to protect their privacy, but really their names are out there anyway. Why not defend their reputations?
2. They did it and Brady knew. In this case, it's obvious they'd want to keep quiet.
3. They did it and Brady didn't know. In this case, they might want to protect themselves (and the team) by being quiet, but they help Brady by talking. You REALLY need to explain the "evidence", Pro, other than the NFL's and your belief something happened and both of you not believe Brady or the Patriots. The biggest holes in the argument is the ignorance of the IGL and the failure to address the fact three of the four Colts footballs measured also had lower PSI than the pregame readings while claiming the lower PSI of the Patriots' footballs were strictly the result of tampering. That's it in a nutshell.
|
|
|
Post by prolate0spheroid on Apr 30, 2016 9:38:46 GMT -5
Yeah, if they did it and did it without Brady's knowledge, they could have confessed and spared Brady. There are three scenarios:
1. They didn't do it. In this case, why not come out and talk in public? Maybe they'd want to protect their privacy, but really their names are out there anyway. Why not defend their reputations?
2. They did it and Brady knew. In this case, it's obvious they'd want to keep quiet.
3. They did it and Brady didn't know. In this case, they might want to protect themselves (and the team) by being quiet, but they help Brady by talking. You REALLY need to explain the "evidence", Pro, other than the NFL's and your belief something happened and both of you not believe Brady or the Patriots. The biggest holes in the argument is the ignorance of the IGL and the failure to address the fact three of the four Colts footballs measured also had lower PSI than the pregame readings while claiming the lower PSI of the Patriots' footballs were strictly the result of tampering. That's it in a nutshell. Bill, I've already hashed my view of the evidence to death. I could do it again, but I'm going to spare everyone that. We all know that p=nRT/V. The variable T is the key here. We all know that if T = 48 degrees fahrenheit the IGL explains some of what is observed as long as the logo gauge was used. (It doesn't explain the wide variance in pressure readings for the Pats' balls, but it does explain the largest drops in pressure.) The question though is what was "T" when the balls were measured at halftime. We don't know exactly, but in my estimation a reasonable assumption is that (if we follow the logo gauge results for both the Pats and Colts balls) it was well above 48 degrees. If we follow the non-logo gauge (the gauge that I believe was probably used), then both the Pats balls and Colts balls were colder than Exponent predicts (they were warming at a slower rate than Exponent's transient analysis predicts). But the Pats balls still are too low given the actual outdoor temperature and still show too wide a variance if we assume they were all originally inflated to the same pressure pregame.
|
|
|
Post by agcsbill on May 1, 2016 17:51:18 GMT -5
You REALLY need to explain the "evidence", Pro, other than the NFL's and your belief something happened and both of you not believe Brady or the Patriots. The biggest holes in the argument is the ignorance of the IGL and the failure to address the fact three of the four Colts footballs measured also had lower PSI than the pregame readings while claiming the lower PSI of the Patriots' footballs were strictly the result of tampering. That's it in a nutshell. Bill, I've already hashed my view of the evidence to death. I could do it again, but I'm going to spare everyone that. We all know that p=nRT/V. The variable T is the key here. We all know that if T = 48 degrees fahrenheit the IGL explains some of what is observed as long as the logo gauge was used. (It doesn't explain the wide variance in pressure readings for the Pats' balls, but it does explain the largest drops in pressure.) The question though is what was "T" when the balls were measured at halftime. We don't know exactly, but in my estimation a reasonable assumption is that (if we follow the logo gauge results for both the Pats and Colts balls) it was well above 48 degrees. If we follow the non-logo gauge (the gauge that I believe was probably used), then both the Pats balls and Colts balls were colder than Exponent predicts (they were warming at a slower rate than Exponent's transient analysis predicts). But the Pats balls still are too low given the actual outdoor temperature and still show too wide a variance if we assume they were all originally inflated to the same pressure pregame.The NFL is "assuming" A LOT!!!!!!
|
|