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Post by stuarttaylor17 on Dec 31, 2020 15:44:11 GMT -5
Re above 👆👆 I'm just new to the board and my IT skills a bit shit. I've deleted the other posts. Sorry if I'm made an error. Just a link to an article - not malware etc.
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Post by Wozzy on Dec 31, 2020 18:00:19 GMT -5
Sorry, wozzy.. that's just false. When comparing the years from 2011-2019, Dalton was sacked more in 4 of those years than Brady. Brady was sacked more in 3 of those years than Dalton. 2 years they tied in sacks. Brady career average is 1.7 sacks per game, Dalton career average 2 sacks per game. There are season where Brady was sacked more than Dalton Lets' look at the last five years of Dalton's Bengal career. Three of those years he didn't play a full season because he was hurt, and this wasn't because he's fragile, it's because his offensive line sucked. The seasons in red below represent injury shortened seasons. Keeping in mind the last dynastic run by the Patriots Brady barely got touched and went to 4 Super Bowls. Offensive Rankings
Points Per Drive - Sack % - Yards Per Rush
2019: 28th - 23rd - 3.9 2018: 16th - 16th - 4.72017: 25th - 26th - 3.6 2016: 17th - 26th - 4.0 2015: 5th - 18th - 3.9 Now also keep in mind the running narrative here is that "weapons" are what separates the good offenses from the poor offenses, even though examples like Cleveland disprove it again and again... they weren't good until they built an O-Line this year and have had super weapons the entire time.
Another team that had great weapons over this time period... The Bengals:
WR - AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, Marvin Jones
RB - Joe Mixon, Gio Benard, Jeremey Hill, Rex Burkhead
TE - Tyler Eifert
The fact that the Bengals stats, rushing yards, passing yards are as respectable as they are is a testament to how good Dalton and the weapons were. The fact that the stats were as poor as they were is a testament to how important the O-Line is... in short you need all of it to be a playoff contender but it starts upfront, it starts with the O-Line.
Tom Brady with a good O-Line and bad weapons put up the 12th most passing yards and 7th most TD's in the NFL in 2006... weapons are overrated in comparison to O-Line. Even average weapons can catch and run.
This ^ is also a testament to how poor Cam has been this year at passing, he has one of the best O-Lines in the league and his weapons are better than 2006 by a mile.
Cam sucks. Dalton isn't amazing... but I'd put him in that "serviceable/average/good" category. |
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Post by TFB12 on Dec 31, 2020 19:36:46 GMT -5
Sorry, wozzy.. that's just false. When comparing the years from 2011-2019, Dalton was sacked more in 4 of those years than Brady. Brady was sacked more in 3 of those years than Dalton. 2 years they tied in sacks. Brady career average is 1.7 sacks per game, Dalton career average 2 sacks per game. There are season where Brady was sacked more than Dalton Lets' look at the last five years of Dalton's Bengal career. Three of those years he didn't play a full season because he was hurt, and this wasn't because he's fragile, it's because his offensive line sucked. The seasons in red below represent injury shortened seasons. Keeping in mind the last dynastic run by the Patriots Brady barely got touched and went to 4 Super Bowls. Offensive Rankings
Points Per Drive - Sack % - Yards Per Rush
2019: 28th - 23rd - 3.9 2018: 16th - 16th - 4.72017: 25th - 26th - 3.6 2016: 17th - 26th - 4.0 2015: 5th - 18th - 3.9 Now also keep in mind the running narrative here is that "weapons" are what separates the good offenses from the poor offenses, even though examples like Cleveland disprove it again and again... they weren't good until they built an O-Line this year and have had super weapons the entire time.
Another team that had great weapons over this time period... The Bengals:
WR - AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, Marvin Jones
RB - Joe Mixon, Gio Benard, Jeremey Hill, Rex Burkhead
TE - Tyler Eifert
The fact that the Bengals stats, rushing yards, passing yards are as respectable as they are is a testament to how good Dalton and the weapons were. The fact that the stats were as poor as they were is a testament to how important the O-Line is... in short you need all of it to be a playoff contender but it starts upfront, it starts with the O-Line.
Tom Brady with a good O-Line and bad weapons put up the 12th most passing yards and 7th most TD's in the NFL in 2006... weapons are overrated in comparison to O-Line. Even average weapons can catch and run.
This ^ is also a testament to how poor Cam has been this year at passing, he has one of the best O-Lines in the league and his weapons are better than 2006 by a mile.
Cam sucks. Dalton isn't amazing... but I'd put him in that "serviceable/average/good" category.You are kind of all over the place here, I'm not sure the argument or the point. Why did you leave out years 2011-2014 when the Bengals made the playoffs? My point is Dalton choked, he's not very good. You blamed it on the O-line and said he led the league most years in being sacked. 2011-2015 Daltons sacks were no were near leading the league.. he was only sacked more than Brady in 1 of those years. Daltons playoff record during those 5 years was 0-4, 1 td and 6 ints. He was sacked an average of 3 times a game in those 4 playoff games. Can't blame those losses and the teams failure on the O-line. That was Andy Dalton choking. And again, you are not correct.. Dalton did not lead the league in sacks most of his career. So the two things we were debating, I was correct on. |
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Post by bostonts on Dec 31, 2020 19:45:41 GMT -5
17 Tds 10 Int's worst collection of skill players in football, no pre season, no camp, contracts covid, completed 65% of his passes, played in a run 1st, 2nd and 3rd offense, bad defense, team leader, takes all the blame, never deflects Bill Belichick will sign Cam Newton and draft a future Qb imho. I wish we could be better than that, but this is the bed we made. Newton's season reminds me a LOT of Brady last year. In the way we started hearing people say things like, "Off target, missing open receivers, sailing balls(instead of ground balls like Cam) shy in the pocket, worst year of his career". Tough times. IMO BB will sign another QB, I agree with you it will be someone on a discount but I doubt it will be Cam.I know he loved Cam's attitude this year but Cam had a rough year after showing some flashes to begin the year. I know you think Cam can still be a winning QB with better weapons but I don't see it, and I suspect BB doesn't see it either, though we'll find out. In fact I'm not sure Cam will be a starting QB ever again. If you look at Cam's most recent press conferences, it's clear that Cam has lost confidence. That's not good. He doesn't seem like a guy who is just frustrated he doesn't have better receivers to throw to. He doesn't know how to adapt to being an older player at the moment. I'm not sure how well he throw the long ball but the Pats aren't going to go out and get long ball passers. If anything, I'm betting the offensive coaching staff is thinking let's get a serviceable QB for shorter routes that Cam struggles with, so we can get guys like James White more involved in the offense again (and maybe even turn Harry into a decent possession receiver, granted that is a big big maybe). I don't think BB has ruled Cam out yet but I just don't see it. I think they were intrigued by having a rushing QB but Cam hasn't been running all that well either. I think they want someone who will be better in the short/intermediate passing game. |
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Post by Wozzy on Dec 31, 2020 19:53:58 GMT -5
You are kind of all over the place here, I'm not sure the argument or the point. Why did you leave out years 2011-2014 when the Bengals made the playoffs? My point is Dalton choked, he's not very good. You blamed it on the O-line and said he led the league most years in being sacked. 2011-2015 Daltons sacks were no were near leading the league.. he was only sacked more than Brady in 1 of those years. Daltons playoff record during those 5 years was 0-4, 1 td and 6 ints. He was sacked an average of 3 times a game in those 4 playoff games. Can't blame those losses and the teams failure on the O-line. That was Andy Dalton choking. And again, you are not correct.. Dalton did not lead the league in sacks most of his career. So the two things we were debating, I was correct on. No, I'm not. I'll simplify my argument with a common yet true maxim. Football is won in the trenches. Sack % is better than total sacks because some teams pass less, sack % measures the amount of sacks and pressure vs the number of pass attempts, it's more accurate. Poor rushing shows how bad the O-Line was in general. Ryan Tannehill wasn't a bad player on the Dolphins, he was a good player with Adam Gaze as his coach and one of the worst O-Lines in the league. In Tennessee he is one of the most accurate efficient QB's in the NFL. It's a team game. QB's get entirely too much credit when you win and entirely too much blame when you lose. It's a team game. The best teams are the best teams from 1-53. Happy New Years! |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 7:29:42 GMT -5
You are kind of all over the place here, I'm not sure the argument or the point. Why did you leave out years 2011-2014 when the Bengals made the playoffs? My point is Dalton choked, he's not very good. You blamed it on the O-line and said he led the league most years in being sacked.  2011-2015 Daltons sacks were no were near leading the league.. he was only sacked more than Brady in 1 of those years. Daltons playoff record during those 5 years was 0-4, 1 td and 6 ints. He was sacked an average of 3 times a game in those 4 playoff games. Can't blame those losses and the teams failure on the O-line. That was Andy Dalton choking. And again, you are not correct.. Dalton did not lead the league in sacks most of his career. So the two things we were debating, I was correct on.  No, I'm not. I'll simplify my argument with a common yet true maxim. Football is won in the trenches. Sack % is better than total sacks because some teams pass less, sack % measures the amount of sacks and pressure vs the number of pass attempts, it's more accurate. Poor rushing shows how bad the O-Line was in general. Ryan Tannehill wasn't a bad player on the Dolphins, he was a good player with Adam Gaze as his coach and one of the worst O-Lines in the league. In Tennessee he is one of the most accurate efficient QB's in the NFL. It's a team game. QB's get entirely too much credit when you win and entirely too much blame when you lose. It's a team game. The best teams are the best teams from 1-53. Happy New Years! . Way more likely then not you need a great quarterback to win Super Bowls in the modern era |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 10:14:45 GMT -5
Nick Foles... Eli Manning = "great"  |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 10:57:28 GMT -5
Nick Foles... Eli Manning = "great" Way more like than not, unless you want to be a once in a generation team. Must have missed that part in your skimming. Eli is a HOFer also You love to acknowledge the 1-53, but never acknowledge the 1 is by far the most important |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 11:19:04 GMT -5
Eli Manning will make the HOF for one simple reason... two Super Bowl rings. Not because he was a dominant passer.
Terry Bradshaw was nowhere near the best passer of his generation, he has four rings and is in the HOF.
Wins are a "team" stat, no QB no matter how good can will a bad team to a Super Bowl... if so, provide a single example.
I can provide numerous "average/good" QB's who won Super Bowls... nobody can provide an example of an "average/good" team winning a Super Bowl.
Eli will make the HOF for one simple reason... Tom Coughlin.
If Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and others can do it... if Joe Gibbs can win three different Super Bowls with three different average journeyman QB's... then you don't need some magical mystical QB.
You need good QB play, the same way you need good OL, D and Special Teams... TEAM.
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 11:23:41 GMT -5
Eli Manning will make the HOF for one simple reason... two Super Bowl rings. Not because he was a dominant passer. Terry Bradshaw was nowhere near the best passer of his generation, he has four rings and is in the HOF. Wins are a "team" stat, no QB no matter how good can will a bad team to a Super Bowl... if so, provide a single example. I can provide numerous "average/good" QB's who won Super Bowls... nobody can provide an example of an "average/good" team winning a Super Bowl. Eli will make the HOF for one simple reason... Tom Coughlin. If Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and others can do it... if Joe Gibbs can win three different Super Bowls with three different average journeyman QB's... then you don't need some magical mystical QB. You need good QB play, the same way you need good OL, D and Special Teams... TEAM. You missed the modern era portion of my argument. We know in the 60s you Could win with anybody. Here since 2006 since the rule change let’s make a list of super bowl champiom quarterbacks. You list the not great and I’ll list the great? Should be an equal sized list right? Also even your poor qb lost like Eli, foles or flacco all played extremely well in their playoff runs most of the time. If you want sustained success, need a great quarterback Also nobody is saying you don’t need a great team, no need to spin this argument woozy, just that you more often than not need a great quarterback |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 11:27:56 GMT -5
The magical "modern era" delineation point... that ignores Flacco, Foles, Eli.
A hand drawn line in time used to make a point that doesn't hold up to scrutiny, critical thinking or logic.
Football hasn't changed that much since the adoption of the forward pass, the more it changes the more it stays the same... blocking, tackling.
Foles didn't beat Brady, the Eagles beat New England. And the only reason they did so was because the Patriots defense was wracked with injuries. TEAM
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 11:42:49 GMT -5
The magical "modern era" delineation point... that ignores Flacco, Foles, Eli. A hand drawn line in time used to make a point that doesn't hold up to scrutiny, critical thinking or logic. Football hasn't changed that much since the adoption of the forward pass, the more it changes the more it stays the same... blocking, tackling. Foles didn't beat Brady, the Eagles beat New England. And the only reason they did so was because the Patriots defense was wracked with injuries. TEAM I said you can include them, they won after 2006 right? Stay focused wozzy. Again don’t side step the argument that regardless of the team you’re more likely than not going to need a great quarterback to be perennial contenders Also the 2017 defense was ranked 5th in the league and I know you thought they were good going into the game, but that’s besides the point Also saying football hasn’t changed since the forward pass is completely asinine |
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Post by CWTB on Jan 1, 2021 11:43:54 GMT -5
Nails got hit all over the place. I hear them. Great Post Wozz.
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Post by CWTB on Jan 1, 2021 11:46:08 GMT -5
We always forget about the Cowboys and how much their QB's changed over the years, with Landry. They always were getting back to SB and Play-offs with different QB's.
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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 11:48:40 GMT -5
Just watched the special on Mac Jones on ESPN. I really like this kid. Excited to see him play Clemson in the title after smashing ND today (sorry MB). Really coming around on Mac being our QB selection.
Also of note, a headline that ran across the screen during that special was "Cam says only regret is lack of prep time; hints at Sunday being last game in NE." If that's the case, thank God and good riddance but also, I'm having a very hard time understanding why Stidham wouldn't start on Sunday given Cam's impending exit. Give the kid a shot from the beginning of the game and just see how he does.
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 11:54:49 GMT -5
Just watched the special on Mac Jones on ESPN. I really like this kid. Excited to see him play Clemson in the title after smashing ND today (sorry MB). Really coming around on Mac being our QB selection. Also of note, a headline that ran across the screen during that special was "Cam says only regret is lack of prep time; hints at Sunday being last game in NE." If that's the case, thank God and good riddance but also, I'm having a very hard time understanding why Stidham wouldn't start on Sunday given Cam's impending exit. Give the kid a shot from the beginning of the game and just see how he does. Bill pretty much answered that question on OMF this week |
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Post by salcon on Jan 1, 2021 12:00:01 GMT -5
I'll take Ian Book over Stidham. Like this kids attitude. Kid is a fighter, and doesn't play scared. Honestly we really don't know how Stidham plays. We've never seen him start with a full week of first-team practice reps. I only want to see him for my own selfish reason. I've already seen more than enough of Cam. Give this last game to the fans that want to see someone else try and run the talentless offense just for shits and grins. If Stid falls flat on his face well then, it's on to 2021. |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 12:05:57 GMT -5
What Wozzy actually said before and after the 2017 Super Bowl, rather than what a troll thinks he said or thought...
Preseason 2017 when the injuries began:
"That blows, we are approaching dangerously thin levels with our pass rush. We better hope Keonta Davis is ready to play, we're short on speed off the edge."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/3009/derek-rivers-injury
"For all the posters that ever tried to quantify what "bad luck" looks like in the NFL, I present to you the 2017 Patriots. They still have enough talent, but a team that looked historically deep in the preseason now looks mortal. Still the best, but the once insurmountable gap has now shrunk."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/3319/valentine-ir
When Branch came back from his benching and looked good:
"Preseason with a healthy Rivers on the team, I see Shea and Van Noy as a roster bubble guys. Now in the heat of an actual season with heavy injury losses, he can possibly become another "glue" guy.
Health provided Valentine and Shea coming back will help, especially if they've actually been saving David Harris for the latter half of the season.
We already look substantially tougher against the run with Malcolm Brown and a refocused/cardiovascular'ed Branch, a healthy Valentine will bring more bullrush to our whole D and Shea some more LB'er tackles and pass rush.
I hope the bad juju of what's happened to the Pats (Langhi?) and C's Gordon Hayward doesn't keep going, because right now we look like a cursed sports town... and I don't believe in curses."
Right when Branch got hurt:
"Our defense is the most depleted group of any of the three phases. Our linebacker crew minus Hightower and Rivers are without their two best players and without Van Noy without their single best fill in. No Valentine is no depth behind Branch and Brown. The loss of Alan Branch was the biggest loss in a while, or did you think losing a 6'6" 360 pound all pro nose tackle wouldn't be be a detriment or make life easier on Lev Bell? The defense is decimated, we need to score points to win. We can't afford for the offense to be inefficient. Tom Brady isn't "off" as much as the entire offense is off, its Josh McDaniels job to get it right. Brady should have better plays schemed up for key short downs and he under throws Cooks too often. Play calling sucks, please someone to tell Brady to overthrow Cooks... just once. I don't think he can. And yet we still won..."
Before the loss:
"Agreed. That being said if this was a "team" award I would say the Eagles deserve it. They will be tough to beat because they run the ball really well and play defense really well, this is a recipe to beat anyone. Health provided we will see them in the final game of the season. They will run the ball to keep it out of Tom Brady's hands, they will be tough to beat. Tom is far and away the best QB this season, trailed by Brees more than Wentz IMO."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/3802/brady-trailing-wentz-pro-bowl
"Philly is the best team in the league, Rams and Minny are also very tough. Be glad we're not playing in the NFC.
In the AFC the Steelers and Jaguars are still tough even though the Jags lost, the AFC is just weak enough for us to win despite our encyclopedia of injuries.
I fear teams that can run the ball and play defense, teams that can keep Tom Brady off the field.
If we had Hightower and Rivers we would be dominant, without we still have a Super Bowl shot, but we can't afford anymore defensive injuries."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/3814/nfc
"Outside of the Pats, the Eagles and Jaguars are the best teams in the league and only teams I fear. Teams that can defend and run the ball, keep Brady off the field, are the only teams we'll have problems with."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4289/game-thread-divisional-round-squealers
"The Eagles are one of those teams. Beyond what everyone has already mentioned about their defensive front, which is all true, their defensive backfield was weak early in the year because of injuries to their best corner Ronald Darby and others, they've been healthy back there since the final quarter of the season and are tough.
But what makes them tough, maybe tougher then Jacksonville, is their offensive line. They are one of the best O lines in football and they have a great stable of running backs. The Jaguars offensive line is very average and they have no tight ends to speak of, Philly does.
This game is going to be tough, if Jacksonville played a different second half they would have beat us and not because our defense sucks or because of anything except they outplayed us, because they're good.
The chest thumping is all well and good, we still have to play a great game, we have to protect the ball, we have to have great play calling, we have to execute."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4437/lombardi-predicts
"We haven't had a pass rush all season due to injury, how does it take Patricia a whole half of football to realize he has to bring pressure from corners or elsewhere."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4562/blueprint-beat-eagles-good-read
After the loss:
"It took the Eagles three tries and 52 years to finally win a Super Bowl but the Patriots should win every year no matter what because they make it look so easy at times and the weaklings here can't handle a loss."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4617/negative-nancys
"The bottom line is the Eagles were better, healthier and more talented. I said this months ago and the only thing that changed is the Patriots got weaker and more injured. The better team won.
Unless I'm wrong and Belichick quits today they will come back stronger next season. Save the histrionics, it won't help you cope with the loss. Go take a hot bath instead. Pats in 2018!"
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4615/end-dynasty
"Agree completely, we had issues creating pressure all season since Hightower went down. Rivers was supposed to provide assistance here as well, I still wonder if the turf manager was fired from early in the season where it was reported to be in dangerous condition.
We hired a bunch of young bigger ends, Adam Butler and Wise, but outside of feasting on weak late game offensive lines they were entirely ineffectual. We need more Trey Flowers, strong on the edge but possessing burst. When we met the superior offensive line of the Eagles it was painfully apparent how neutered our pass rush had become."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4627/on-sb-loss
"The Eagles offense lead the entire NFL in post season scoring... more then the Patriots. Their defense played 3 games and only allowed 16.7 points per game which is the best in the NFL postseason.
How did the Eagles win?
Easy, they were the best team in the NFL."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4650/anybody-bb-labeled-defensive-genius
But yeah... I guess we can pretend I wasn't saying this ^ stuff... because a troll says so.
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 12:10:30 GMT -5
Or...
Prior to Wentz getting hurt:
"Wentz arguably has the best offensive line in football, not arguably the best stable of running backs in the NFL, a very good collection of receivers and a dominating defense.
If Brady had that running game protecting him he would go undefeated and break every single season passing record... that he already owns.
Brady has a damn good team around him as well, his performance this year is far superior to Wentz.
Brady has a 110 QBR while leading the league in pass attempts, the five guys below him in attempts don't eclipse a 100 QBR. Wentz is completing 59.7 % of his passes... laughable.
The only reason Tom hasn't won outright is Patriot hate."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/3802/brady-trailing-wentz-pro-bowl
When Wentz got hurt:
"Foles is a better back up then anything Oakland had last year, if he is anything close to decent they will still be a tough out.
Philly won on the strength of their run game and defense, all Foles has to be is consistent and adequate."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/3924/wentz-season
Prior to the Super Bowl:
"The Patriots should take no solace in that Wentz is out, Foles isn't that much of a drop off.
Foles made the Pro Bowl once also, they are very similar players.
Foles has been a headcase in the past, he has also played good football, which he seems to be doing now.
Wentz is overrated because he played on the best team in the NFC this year.
We need to execute and be the better TEAM this week, or nothing else matters."
patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/4502/eagles-patriots-sb-52-preview
Should I keep going? The troll suggests I said none of this ^ stuff, that I said our defense was really good, and I just provided a complete timeline of posts that show I was consistent since 2017 training camp.
This is the reality, this is the truth. Football is won in the trenches, football is a TEAM sport. It's a number's game... period.
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:15:16 GMT -5
Wozzy you avoid answering the question, make a list of not great quarterbacks that have won Super Bowls since 2006. Everybody on this forum knows it’s a quarterback league. You don’t have to pretend, nobody is saying it’s the only thing that matters on a team, you simply need to have a great one to contend more often than not
You’ve made a complete wozzy shift Into talking about the 2017 eagles. You’re avoiding the argument
Also saying foles can rely on the run game and defense was factually inaccurate
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 12:21:23 GMT -5
What's so special about 2006?
Great teams and GM's find great players, they find great QB's the same way they find great OL, DT's CB's and Kickers... TEAM's win Super Bowls, not QB's.
Drew Brees led the NFL in passing in 2016, his Saints had the 32nd ranked defense... that team went 7-9.
Did Drew Brees need to do more, did he need to suit up on defense maybe? Just dumb, the notion that a QB can overcome bad defense or special teams.
If Nick Foles, Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer can do it... then it doesn't require some magical hidden talent/clutch juice that only the best have.
Tom Brady played on the best teams over the last twenty years, yes he was part of what made them great, but they were great TEAM's nonetheless.
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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 12:26:03 GMT -5
Wozzy you avoid answering the question, make a list of not great quarterbacks that have won Super Bowls since 2006. Everybody on this forum knows it’s a quarterback league. You don’t have to pretend, nobody is saying it’s the only thing that matters on a team, you simply need to have a great one to contend more often than not You’ve made a complete wozzy shift Into talking about the 2017 eagles. You’re avoiding the argument Also saying foles can rely on the run game and defense was factually inaccurate EManning twice (no, Eli is not a great QB), Flacco, Foles and PManning in 2015 (arguably the worst QB in the league that season). Of course having a great QB elevates your chances at a Super Bowl and helps teams have sustained success but there are very clear examples of teams with average/slightly above average QBs winning Super Bowls in the modern era. You need a really good team as well. At this point I'm not even sure what the argument is about. |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:28:00 GMT -5
What's so special about 2006? Great teams and GM's find great players, they find great QB's the same way they find great OL, DT's CB's and Kickers... TEAM's win Super Bowls, not QB's. Drew Brees led the NFL in passing in 2016, his Saints had the 32nd ranked defense... that team went 7-9. Did Drew Brees need to do more, did he need to suit up on defense maybe? Just dumb, the notion that a QB can overcome bad defense or special teams. If Nick Foles, Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer can do it... then it doesn't require some magical hidden talent/clutch juice that only the best have. Tom Brady played on the best teams over the last twenty years, yes he was part of what made them great, but they were great TEAM's nonetheless. You refusing to answer the question tells me all I need to know. Go back to 2000, I didn’t even want to include Brady in the early 2000s, then after polian changed the rule. But we can go further back if you want. But you want to go to the 70s when clearly the league was different then it is today |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:28:54 GMT -5
Wozzy you avoid answering the question, make a list of not great quarterbacks that have won Super Bowls since 2006. Everybody on this forum knows it’s a quarterback league. You don’t have to pretend, nobody is saying it’s the only thing that matters on a team, you simply need to have a great one to contend more often than not You’ve made a complete wozzy shift Into talking about the 2017 eagles. You’re avoiding the argument Also saying foles can rely on the run game and defense was factually inaccurate EManning twice (no, Eli is not a great QB), Flacco, Foles and PManning in 2015 (arguably the worst QB in the league that season). Of course having a great QB elevates your chances at a Super Bowl and helps teams have sustained success but there are very clear examples of teams with average/slightly above average QBs winning Super Bowls in the modern era. You need a really good team as well. At this point I'm not even sure what the argument is about.  So you agree with me thanks for answering for wozzy. All I said was you need a great quarterback more often than not to have sustained success. This is factual based on super bowl winning quarterbacks |
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Post by salcon on Jan 1, 2021 12:29:24 GMT -5
Wozzy you avoid answering the question, make a list of not great quarterbacks that have won Super Bowls since 2006. Everybody on this forum knows it’s a quarterback league. You don’t have to pretend, nobody is saying it’s the only thing that matters on a team, you simply need to have a great one to contend more often than not You’ve made a complete wozzy shift Into talking about the 2017 eagles. You’re avoiding the argument Also saying foles can rely on the run game and defense was factually inaccurate EManning twice (no, Eli is not a great QB), Flacco, Foles and PManning in 2015 (arguably the worst QB in the league that season). Of course having a great QB elevates your chances at a Super Bowl and helps teams have sustained success but there are very clear examples of teams with average/slightly above average QBs winning Super Bowls in the modern era. You need a really good team as well. At this point I'm not even sure what the argument is about. that guy is like that old SNL character, The Contrary Contrarian. He argues just for argument's sake. |
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