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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 12:32:03 GMT -5
EManning twice (no, Eli is not a great QB), Flacco, Foles and PManning in 2015 (arguably the worst QB in the league that season). Of course having a great QB elevates your chances at a Super Bowl and helps teams have sustained success but there are very clear examples of teams with average/slightly above average QBs winning Super Bowls in the modern era. You need a really good team as well. At this point I'm not even sure what the argument is about. So you agree with me thanks for answering for wozzy. All I said was you need a great quarterback more often than not to have sustained success. This is factual based on super bowl winning quarterbacks I just named 5 quarterbacks of the past 13 Super Bowl winners that were average/slightly above average (nowhere near great). I'd say that hardly supports what you're inferring. You need a really good team as well. |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 12:33:24 GMT -5
Questions that are misleading at best, outright trolling at worst, and if I don't answer these garbage questions I'm saying something... like that time I said the 2017 Defense was good.
Until I provided a multitude of quotes from 2017 showing what I actually said... we deserve a better class of troll.
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 12:35:00 GMT -5
I just named 5 quarterbacks of the past 13 Super Bowl winners that were average/slightly above average (nowhere near great). I'd say that hardly supports what you're inferring. You need a really good team as well. The year the Eagles won, the four starting QB's in the Conference Championship games were Brady, Foles, Case Keenum and Blake Bortles... how many magical franchise caliber QB's do you count? |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:35:58 GMT -5
So you agree with me thanks for answering for wozzy. All I said was you need a great quarterback more often than not to have sustained success. This is factual based on super bowl winning quarterbacks I just named 5 quarterbacks of the past 13 Super Bowl winners that were average/slightly above average (nowhere near great). I'd say that hardly supports what you're inferring. You need a really good team as well. Nobody is saying you don’t need a good team, that’s not my argument. You gave me 2 HOFers, and 2 guys in flacco and foles who were dominant in their run. But in a 15 year span you gave me a few names, that supports my argument. Also the fact flacco and foles never sustained their success, one year wonders |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:37:51 GMT -5
Questions that are misleading at best, outright trolling at worst, and if I don't answer these garbage questions I'm saying something... like that time I said the 2017 Defense was good. Until I provided a multitude of quotes from 2017 showing what I actually said... we deserve a better class of troll. No you’re avoiding the question, your follower answered for you proving my point. He didn’t have much trouble |
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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 12:40:01 GMT -5
Questions that are misleading at best, outright trolling at worst, and if I don't answer these garbage questions I'm saying something... like that time I said the 2017 Defense was good. Until I provided a multitude of quotes from 2017 showing what I actually said... we deserve a better class of troll. No you’re avoiding the question, your follower answered for you proving my point. He didn’t have much trouble "Your follower" lmao. Sounds great, Bustchise. Nobody proved your point. Your reading comprehension is complete garbage. You're the board pinata, we all love slapping you around. |
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Post by CWTB on Jan 1, 2021 12:40:49 GMT -5
Stidham situation makes no sense, unless he is not in the future plans.
Plenty of time to make change, and was here a year earlier too.
Last 2 games tells me look for a Back-up too.
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:41:46 GMT -5
No you’re avoiding the question, your follower answered for you proving my point. He didn’t have much trouble "Your follower" lmao. Sounds great, Bustchise. Nobody proved your point. Your reading comprehension is complete garbage. You're the board pinata, we all love slapping you around. You literally proved my point, and thanks for doing wozzys work |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 12:43:22 GMT -5
The first year Tom started he completed 63% of his passes, averaged 190 passing yards per game and threw 18 TD's to 12 INT's... or almost as many picks as TD's.
This notion that he was a world beater as a sophomore is fan fiction, total re-imagining of history.
They wouldn't have won without Tom... or Vinatieri, or Seymour... hell maybe they don't win without Patrick Pass and Wiggins being clutch down the stretch in not one but two playoff games, one of which was the Super Bowl.
TEAM's win Super Bowls, if your TEAM is good enough you can get by with just "good" at QB.
What we saw at QB in 2020 was horrible.
They need to improve the position, it's the biggest "need" position. But the notion they need to go out and find a magical unicorn is fanboy garbage.
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:45:14 GMT -5
More woozy spin, love it
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Post by salcon on Jan 1, 2021 12:45:37 GMT -5
Stidham situation makes no sense, unless he is not in the future plans. Plenty of time to make change, and was here a year earlier too. Last 2 games tells me look for a Back-up too. I say, even if he isn't in their future plans why not let him start? Cam isn't in their future plans either. At least I hope not! |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 12:48:12 GMT -5
"Your follower" lmao. Sounds great, Bustchise. Nobody proved your point. Your reading comprehension is complete garbage. You're the board pinata, we all love slapping you around. Laughable, says the troll that follows my every post and even has stalked me over on the Celtics site. Not coincidentally one of his first posts over there says the C's would be a better team immediately if they traded Jaylen Brown for James Harden... the team killer. He understands a lot about fantasy, but not a lot about actual chemistry, reality or the game. |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 12:53:06 GMT -5
"Your follower" lmao. Sounds great, Bustchise. Nobody proved your point. Your reading comprehension is complete garbage. You're the board pinata, we all love slapping you around. Laughable, says the troll that follows my every post and even has stalked me over on the Celtics site. Not coincidentally one of his first posts over there says the C's would be a better team immediately if they traded Jaylen Brown for James Harden... the team killer. He understands a lot about fantasy, but not a lot about actual chemistry, reality or the game. Nobody followed you weirdo, somebody else brought you up. Another sensitive homer just like you actually. Team killer mvp Who needs talent in the nba....oh ya talent doesn’t exist |
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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 12:58:15 GMT -5
"Your follower" lmao. Sounds great, Bustchise. Nobody proved your point. Your reading comprehension is complete garbage. You're the board pinata, we all love slapping you around. You literally proved my point, and thanks for doing wozzys work What exactly is your point, Bustchise? That if you have a great QB then your chances of winning a Super Bowl go up? Groundbreaking stuff, dipshit. You've posted over a dozen times in this thread "show me a list of QBs who have won since 2006 that are not great" as if to argue you can't win a Super Bowl without a great quarterback. I showed 5 of the past 13 Super Bowl winners that did not have "great" QBs. There's no other reason for you to post that challenge so the whole "oh well of course you need a great team, too" backpedal is dumb. At least your trolling is somewhat evolving, although still weak. |
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Post by TFB12 on Jan 1, 2021 13:00:31 GMT -5
You are kind of all over the place here, I'm not sure the argument or the point. Why did you leave out years 2011-2014 when the Bengals made the playoffs? My point is Dalton choked, he's not very good. You blamed it on the O-line and said he led the league most years in being sacked. 2011-2015 Daltons sacks were no were near leading the league.. he was only sacked more than Brady in 1 of those years. Daltons playoff record during those 5 years was 0-4, 1 td and 6 ints. He was sacked an average of 3 times a game in those 4 playoff games. Can't blame those losses and the teams failure on the O-line. That was Andy Dalton choking. And again, you are not correct.. Dalton did not lead the league in sacks most of his career. So the two things we were debating, I was correct on. No, I'm not. I'll simplify my argument with a common yet true maxim. Football is won in the trenches. Sack % is better than total sacks because some teams pass less, sack % measures the amount of sacks and pressure vs the number of pass attempts, it's more accurate. Poor rushing shows how bad the O-Line was in general. Ryan Tannehill wasn't a bad player on the Dolphins, he was a good player with Adam Gaze as his coach and one of the worst O-Lines in the league. In Tennessee he is one of the most accurate efficient QB's in the NFL. It's a team game. QB's get entirely too much credit when you win and entirely too much blame when you lose. It's a team game. The best teams are the best teams from 1-53. Happy New Years! So we go with %'s.. okay. Let's talk this one out using %'s then.. hopefully, my math isn't fuzzy this new year morning, lol!! Brady career sack % 4.69% Dalton career sack % 5.88% we are talking a difference of 1.19% if Dalton drops back to pass 550 times a season, he's getting sacked 6 more times a season on average than Brady... that's less than half a sack a game. Is that correct? Higher career sack % than Dalton... Prescott Kurt Warner big Ben Warren Moon Jim Kelly Aaron Rodgers John Elway Terry Bradshaw Steve Young Russel Wilson Joe Theisman Phil Simms Roger Stauback To name a few. Look how many SB winners and/or HOF QBs in that list. As for football being a team game... sure. But what's the most important position on the team? Out of 54 SB's.. how many SB's were won by HOF QB's? 49? 50? What is the only position associated with wins and losses? That would be QB's. Why? Let's face it.. Dalton just isn't very good. He proven he chokes in the playoffs too Happy New Year, Wozzy! |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 13:01:59 GMT -5
Apparently “talent” only extends to offense.
We’ve already learned from the resident troll that special teams don’t matter... 😂
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 13:02:04 GMT -5
You literally proved my point, and thanks for doing wozzys work What exactly is your point, Bustchise? That if you have a great QB then your chances of winning a Super Bowl go up? Groundbreaking stuff, dipshit. You've posted over a dozen times in this thread "show me a list of QBs who have won since 2006 that are not great" as if to argue you can't win a Super Bowl without a great quarterback. I showed 5 of the past 13 Super Bowl winners that did not have "great" QBs. There's no other reason for you to post that challenge so the whole "oh well of course you need a great team, too" backpedal is dumb. At least your trolling is somewhat evolving, although still weak. No need for namecalling, also I never said you didn’t need a good team. I never back pedaled away from that. Simply you need a great quarterback to win more often than not. Here’s the super bowl champion qbs since 2000. What’s the ratio to great to not great? Great more often then not? Simply building a great team and having your quarterback being average to good won’t get you sustained success. As in the quarterback is simply the most important player on the team. You’re so angry at another persons opinion you refuse to understand the argument Dilfer Brady Johnson Brady Brady Ben P Manning E Manning Ben Brees Rodgers Eli Flacco Wilson Brady P Manning Brady Foles Brady Mahomes |
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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 13:03:22 GMT -5
Laughable, says the troll that follows my every post and even has stalked me over on the Celtics site. Not coincidentally one of his first posts over there says the C's would be a better team immediately if they traded Jaylen Brown for James Harden... the team killer. He understands a lot about fantasy, but not a lot about actual chemistry, reality or the game. Nobody followed you weirdo, somebody else brought you up. Another sensitive homer just like you actually. Team killer mvp Who needs talent in the nba....oh ya talent doesn’t exist Are you implying Jaylen Brown isn't talented? Lmao yes, the 24 year old who has significantly improved in every category year-after-year, the kid who is off to a 28+ PPG start and is a Top 10 athlete in the NBA lacks talent. James Harden is a one-man show who would stunt the growth of Tatum who's on his way to being a top 5 player in the league. Good to see you know as little about basketball as you do about football. |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 13:04:59 GMT -5
Nobody followed you weirdo, somebody else brought you up. Another sensitive homer just like you actually. Team killer mvp Who needs talent in the nba....oh ya talent doesn’t exist Are you implying Jaylen Brown isn't talented? Lmao yes, the 24 year old who has significantly improved in every category year-after-year, the kid who is off to a 28+ PPG start and is a Top 10 athlete in the NBA lacks talent. James Harden is a one-man show who would stunt the growth of Tatum who's on his way to being a top 5 player in the league. Good to see you know as little about basketball as you do about football. Never implied that. Good reading Your evaluations of brown and Tatum are projections. Harden is a top 5 player in the league now. I’ll be sure to come back and tell you when this Celtics team doesn’t win a ring though Glad to discuss with you on the nba forum though |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 13:05:12 GMT -5
So we go with %'s.. okay. Let's talk this one out using %'s then.. hopefully, my math isn't fuzzy this new year morning, lol!! Brady career sack % 4.69% Dalton career sack % 5.88% we are talking a difference of 1.19% if Dalton drops back to pass 550 times a season, he's getting sacked 6 more times a season on average than Brady... that's less than half a sack a game. Is that correct? Higher career sack % than Dalton... Prescott Kurt Warner big Ben Warren Moon Jim Kelly Aaron Rodgers John Elway Terry Bradshaw Steve Young Russel Wilson Joe Theisman Phil Simms Roger Stauback To name a few. Look how many SB winners and/or HOF QBs in that list. As for football being a team game... sure. But what's the most important position on the team? Out of 54 SB's.. how many SB's were won by HOF QB's? 49? 50? What is the only position associated with wins and losses? That would be QB's. Why? Let's face it.. Dalton just isn't very good. He proven he chokes in the playoffs too Happy New Year, Wozzy! Dalton is average/good, he was better early in his career when his team was better. There’s nothing great about him, but he’s no worse than Dilfer, Foles or Flacco. Cam is toast. I’d take average all day over toast, especially from a bridge guy to potentially better rookie. |
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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 13:11:27 GMT -5
What exactly is your point, Bustchise? That if you have a great QB then your chances of winning a Super Bowl go up? Groundbreaking stuff, dipshit. You've posted over a dozen times in this thread "show me a list of QBs who have won since 2006 that are not great" as if to argue you can't win a Super Bowl without a great quarterback. I showed 5 of the past 13 Super Bowl winners that did not have "great" QBs. There's no other reason for you to post that challenge so the whole "oh well of course you need a great team, too" backpedal is dumb. At least your trolling is somewhat evolving, although still weak. No need for namecalling, also I never said you didn’t need a good team. I never back pedaled away from that. Simply you need a great quarterback to win more often than not. Here’s the super bowl champion qbs since 2000. What’s the ratio to great to not great? Great more often then not? Simply building a great team and having your quarterback being average to good won’t get you sustained success. As in the quarterback is simply the most important player on the team. You’re so angry at another persons opinion you refuse to understand the argument Dilfer Brady Johnson Brady Brady Ben P Manning E Manning Ben Brees Rodgers Eli Flacco Wilson Brady P Manning Brady Foles Brady Mahomes You don't have an argument. You keep moving the goalposts with every response bc you just want to argue and troll (first it was arguing about quarterbacks in the post-chuck rule now you're including from 2000, probs bc it includes 3 super bowls from Brady, first it was about winning super bowls only with great QBs now it's just about sustained success). I haven't seen one post say that having a great QB doesn't increase your chances of having sustained success. I don't think anybody would ever deny that. It's pretty clear that Wozzy's main argument is that you don't need a great QB to win Super Bowls and that is factual considering that 5 of the past 13 quarterbacks were not "great." This argument is dumb and everybody in this thread is now dumber for having been subjected to it. Good day, Busty. |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 13:14:15 GMT -5
No need for namecalling, also I never said you didn’t need a good team. I never back pedaled away from that. Simply you need a great quarterback to win more often than not. Here’s the super bowl champion qbs since 2000. What’s the ratio to great to not great? Great more often then not? Simply building a great team and having your quarterback being average to good won’t get you sustained success. As in the quarterback is simply the most important player on the team. You’re so angry at another persons opinion you refuse to understand the argument Dilfer Brady Johnson Brady Brady Ben P Manning E Manning Ben Brees Rodgers Eli Flacco Wilson Brady P Manning Brady Foles Brady Mahomes You don't have an argument. You keep moving the goalposts with every response bc you just want to argue and troll (first it was arguing about quarterbacks in the post-chuck rule now you're including from 2000, probs bc it includes 3 super bowls from Brady, first it was about winning super bowls only with great QBs now it's just about sustained success). I haven't seen one post say that having a great QB doesn't increase your chances of having sustained success. I don't think anybody would ever deny that. It's pretty clear that Wozzy's main argument is that you don't need a great QB to win Super Bowls and that is factual considering that 5 of the past 13 quarterbacks were not "great." This argument is dumb and everybody in this thread is now dumber for having been subjected to it. Good day, Busty. How many great qbs were on that list? How many were not great? Simple math. Nobody said you can’t win and go on a run without one. At least you acknowledge wozzy is arguing something that I’m not. Very fitting |
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Post by irishmob7 on Jan 1, 2021 13:17:11 GMT -5
Are you implying Jaylen Brown isn't talented? Lmao yes, the 24 year old who has significantly improved in every category year-after-year, the kid who is off to a 28+ PPG start and is a Top 10 athlete in the NBA lacks talent. James Harden is a one-man show who would stunt the growth of Tatum who's on his way to being a top 5 player in the league. Good to see you know as little about basketball as you do about football. Never implied that. Good reading Your evaluations of brown and Tatum are projections. Harden is a top 5 player in the league now. I’ll be sure to come back and tell you when this Celtics team doesn’t win a ring though Glad to discuss with you on the nba forum though If the argument was that it's dumb to trade Brown for Harden and your counter to that is a trollish "yeah, talent doesn't matter in the NBA" it implies that you're saying Brown isn't talented. Don't be disingenuous or rather, don't respond with constant strawmans and you won't look as weak. Tatum is a Top 15 player in the league right now. It is reasonable to "project" that he'll be a Top 5 player in the league in the next few years. What "projection" did I give to Brown? He IS a top 10 athlete in the NBA. He HAS improved significantly in every category since he came in to the league, he IS only 24 and he IS averaging 28+ PPG this season through 5 games. Those are facts, not a projection. |
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Post by TFB12 on Jan 1, 2021 13:18:23 GMT -5
Dalton is average/good, he was better early in his career when his team was better. There’s nothing great about him, but he’s no worse than Dilfer, Foles or Flacco. Cam is toast. I’d take average all day over toast, especially from a bridge guy to potentially better rookie. But you said he wasn't good because he led the league in most times being sacked. Not true, I think I demonstrated otherwise. "He's no worse than Dilfer, Foles or Flacco" Interesting comment. Foles and Flacco made plays when they had to and won SB's by not choking. Dilfer, he didn't make mistakes and hurt his team in winning a SB. Putting my bias aside (not a fan of any of those 3 you mentioned) I would probably take all 3 of those players over Dalton. as for Cam, he's better than all 4 of those players. BTW, from how things are sounding right now.. there seem to be clues in interviews with Cam, BB and Josh McD, that the Pats media is picking up on pointing to the fact Cam won't be a Patriot next season. |
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Post by solly on Jan 1, 2021 13:19:21 GMT -5
Never implied that. Good reading Your evaluations of brown and Tatum are projections. Harden is a top 5 player in the league now. I’ll be sure to come back and tell you when this Celtics team doesn’t win a ring though Glad to discuss with you on the nba forum though If the argument was that it's dumb to trade Brown for Harden and your counter to that is a trollish "yeah, talent doesn't matter in the NBA" it implies that you're saying Brown isn't talented. Tatum is a Top 15 player in the league right now. It is reasonable to "project" that he'll be a Top 5 player in the league in the next few years. What "projection" did I give to Brown? He IS a top 10 athlete in the NBA. He HAS improved significantly in every category since he came in to the league, he IS only 24 and he IS averaging 28+ PPG this season through 5 games. Those are facts, not a projection. Is jaylen as good as harden? Again in the nba there’s a clear threshold of star to super star. One is a superstar one isn’t. Again would love to have this convo on the Celtics board, happy to Again projections vs reality. Super star vs star. Tatum and brown can both leave by 2026, trend in the nba is that star players leave. I’m taking the short window. Not saying it’s an easy decision |
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