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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 13:41:25 GMT -5
But you said he wasn't good because he led the league in most times being sacked. Not true, I think I demonstrated otherwise. "He's no worse than Dilfer, Foles or Flacco" Interesting comment. Foles and Flacco made plays when they had to and won SB's by not choking. Dilfer, he didn't make mistakes and hurt his team in winning a SB. Putting my bias aside (not a fan of any of those 3 you mentioned) I would probably take all 3 of those players over Dalton. as for Cam, he's better than all 4 of those players. BTW, from how things are sounding right now.. there seem to be clues in interviews with Cam, BB and Josh McD, that the Pats media is picking up on pointing to the fact Cam won't be a Patriot next season. You seem to be stuck in thinking 2020 Cam is anything like Cam prior to 2 shoulder surgeries... he’s toast. Dalton played behind some of the worst OLines the latter part of his Bengals career and now with the Cowboys... this is evident in how poor they were blocking both the pass and the run. |
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Post by muzwell on Jan 1, 2021 13:55:28 GMT -5
Five passing TD’s... Rushing TD’s are irrelevant, they could have used Sony or Harris to run TD’s in. This offense is completely anemic because they can’t pass and it’s not because of weapons. The young weapons will improve and improve exponentially with better passing. Cam in his advanced age with two shoulder surgeries on his throwing arm is not going to improve. He might be a good mentor from an intangibles standpoint, but they need a better teacher and passer. Running as a QB is so overrated, Tom Brady was slow as a mule, but could run for a first down if he needed to. He was the worst athlete in the league and is the greatest QB of all time... kind of puts running into perspective doesn’t it. Dan Marino couldn't run at all, yet defensive players will say he was so quick back there they couldnt get to him. That's a QB. Also, in defense of mules, they’re actually quite fast. |
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Post by TFB12 on Jan 1, 2021 14:38:05 GMT -5
But you said he wasn't good because he led the league in most times being sacked. Not true, I think I demonstrated otherwise. "He's no worse than Dilfer, Foles or Flacco" Interesting comment. Foles and Flacco made plays when they had to and won SB's by not choking. Dilfer, he didn't make mistakes and hurt his team in winning a SB. Putting my bias aside (not a fan of any of those 3 you mentioned) I would probably take all 3 of those players over Dalton. as for Cam, he's better than all 4 of those players. BTW, from how things are sounding right now.. there seem to be clues in interviews with Cam, BB and Josh McD, that the Pats media is picking up on pointing to the fact Cam won't be a Patriot next season. You seem to be stuck in thinking 2020 Cam is anything like Cam prior to 2 shoulder surgeries... he’s toast. Dalton played behind some of the worst OLines the latter part of his Bengals career and now with the Cowboys... this is evident in how poor they were blocking both the pass and the run. Naw, I'm not stuck in thinking of or comparing Cam to prior years.. I just know that he seems to be a great teammate, the players and coaches love him. He's dedicated and works hard. His size and running ability adds to the offense where his arm and passing fall short (see what I did there.. haha) Dalton has a history of choking and he certainly wouldn't have got this team to the playoffs, not sure he could have stayed healthy and done any better or as well as Cam has done. As I showed, Dalton had talent and good line blocking earlier in his career and choked those years away with 1 TD and 6 ints in the playoffs. He would add nothing to this team. |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 1, 2021 14:42:41 GMT -5
Naw, I'm not stuck in thinking of or comparing Cam to prior years.. I just know that he seems to be a great teammate, the players and coaches love him. He's dedicated and works hard. His size and running ability adds to the offense where his arm and passing fall short (see what I did there.. haha) Dalton has a history of choking and he certainly wouldn't have got this team to the playoffs, not sure he could have stayed healthy and done any better or as well as Cam has done. As I showed, Dalton had talent and good line blocking earlier in his career and choked those years away with 1 TD and 6 ints in the playoffs. He would add nothing to this team. I agree, Dalton had it better early in his career. He also made the Pro Bowl and frankly I don't think those teams were complete teams by any means. Coaching and scheme did them in as much as choking. Dalton’s early offensive line had names like… LT - Andrew Whitworth (4x Pro Bowl, 3x All Pro) LG - Clint Boling C - Jeff Faine (1x Pro Bowl) RG - Kevin Zeitler RT - Andre Smith Three first rounders, a second rounder and a 4th rounder. His later offensive line… LT - Andre Smith LG - Michael Jordan C - Trey Hopkins RG - John Miller RT - Bobby Hart One first rounder, two thirds, a fourth and one UDFA... zero Pro Bowls. PFF is toilet paper but even they recognize this, ranking the Bengal’s O-Line in Dalton’s final season 30th worst in 2019... 27th in 2018… 30th in 2017. Other outlets like SI had similar grades for this unit, so it's not Wozzy logic, they just sucked. I'm not even saying Dalton is great, he is just better than Cam who is toast and unlike Cam he was too expensive for the Pats who were resetting the cap. |
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Post by TFB12 on Jan 1, 2021 14:49:35 GMT -5
Naw, I'm not stuck in thinking of or comparing Cam to prior years.. I just know that he seems to be a great teammate, the players and coaches love him. He's dedicated and works hard. His size and running ability adds to the offense where his arm and passing fall short (see what I did there.. haha) Dalton has a history of choking and he certainly wouldn't have got this team to the playoffs, not sure he could have stayed healthy and done any better or as well as Cam has done. As I showed, Dalton had talent and good line blocking earlier in his career and choked those years away with 1 TD and 6 ints in the playoffs. He would add nothing to this team. I agree, Dalton had it better early in his career. He also made the Pro Bowl and frankly I don't think those teams were complete teams by any means. Coaching and scheme did them in as much as choking. Dalton’s early offensive line had names like… LT - Andrew Whitworth (4x Pro Bowl, 3x All Pro) LG - Clint Boling C - Jeff Faine (1x Pro Bowl) RG - Kevin Zeitler RT - Andre Smith Three first rounders, a second rounder and a 4th rounder. His later offensive line… LT - Andre Smith LG - Michael Jordan C - Trey Hopkins RG - John Miller RT - Bobby Hart One first rounder, two thirds, a fourth and one UDFA... zero Pro Bowls. PFF is toilet paper but even they recognize this, ranking the Bengal’s O-Line in Dalton’s final season 30th worst in 2019... 27th in 2018… 30th in 2017. Other outlets like SI had similar grades for this unit, so it's not Wozzy logic, they just sucked. I'm not even saying Dalton is great, he is just better than Cam who is toast and unlike Cam he was too expensive for the Pats who were resetting the cap. That's been my point all along. He wasn't leading in sacks the first few years of his career (like you said) when he made the playoffs and choked each time.. 1 TD, 6 ints in those playoffs. I think Daltons contract and cap was 1 year @ $3 million, I don't think that was what stopped BB from signing him. I think BB thought he's washed ... and Cam gave them a better chance of winning. |
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Post by paulk on Jan 1, 2021 21:52:59 GMT -5
1. Trask, a fast riser from where? North Dakota State. Trask is playing at Florida. Trey Lance plays for both Dakota. And hate to tell you, what one team did years ago with their underachieving OT has zero to do with what could happen with the QB market this year.
*Sigh*, bad note taking.
The Patriots wind up with castoff players again and again and again. Usually they have a good idea of what the player is actually worth. Trent Brown happened to be a direct trade with San Francisco's management.
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Post by TrueChamp on Jan 2, 2021 12:58:52 GMT -5
Yeah let's not start this guy. Clean house. Start over. Fins talent.
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Post by solly on Jan 2, 2021 13:41:06 GMT -5
Yeah let's not start this guy. Clean house. Start over. Fins talent. Talent doesn’t exist, only execution. Hoyer and Brady had the same talent, one just executed better |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 14:38:21 GMT -5
Chad Jackson:
6’1” 213 lbs
4.34 Forty
38.5” Vertical
122 Broad
3.97 Shuttle
6.73 Cone
That’s ^ not “average,” or even “good;” it’s exceptional.
Chad Jackson wowed GM’s and scouts at the combine. He set a combine record for most consecutive catches on the jugs machine, catching the final ball behind his back.
Among WR’s in last year’s combine Chad Jackson would have had the 2nd fastest forty time, 2nd highest vertical leap, 2nd fastest shuttle and ranked 1st in the three cone...
Was Jackson athletic enough, fast, mobile and explosive enough… did he lack "talent?"
Was Bethel Johnson fast enough?
What you have is a bunch of numbnuts telling you Dalton Keene, Asiasi, Uche, Jennings, Harry, JoeJuan, Winovich, Gunner, Meyers, Duggar, Bentley, Sony, Harris, Wynn, Onwenu and the rest aren't talented... then a bunch of you accept it as truth without considering some of your favorite Patriot players of all time took time to develop. It's been so long since you've seen rebuild, a troll who just appeared in time for this reload sounds reasonable.
Yeah... execution actually matters as much as talent.
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Post by solly on Jan 2, 2021 15:07:22 GMT -5
You take talent as physical abilities only, nobody is referring to that as talent here. At least when I say talent is needed, it’s good players who have the ability to execute at a high level. At some point playing well means you’re talented
If I had 3 chad Jackson’s I’d say say this receiving unit is not talented
Again some players simply don’t execute at as high of a ceiling as others, why’s that? Producing on the field makes you talented, pretty simple.
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 15:42:25 GMT -5
Jakobi, Gunner... all we've been told is these guys are no good because they're not fast, because they're UDFA's. Sure, nobody is using physical abilities as talent here. Until they do it again and again and again...
I love it when the resident troll speaks for the masses... as if we haven't listened to the talent crowd moan about how fast DK Metcalf, Mecole Hardman or Justin Jefferson are all season.
"God given talent" is the phrase... those are god's natural gifts; speed, vertical lift, mobility... athleticism.
Execution is the ability to use those gifts.
"Talent" if anything is a ubiquitous term that highlights how you don't know how to explain something, so it must be something undefinable and unquantifiable... ergo, you're full of shit.
You don't know what it is, but the Pats don't have it... then when they do well later on, magically they're talented because the talent fairy came and waved magic dust on them in the middle of the night... not because they got better at their jobs (execution).
The WR's on this team aren't good because their QB is a flaming dumpster fire, the TE's are rookies and again, suffer because the QB is worthless unless you need a run. We'll never know how good they could be until they get some talent at QB.
This team has a fair amount of talent, they're short on experience and execution.
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Post by patmando on Jan 2, 2021 15:50:13 GMT -5
Jakobi, Gunner... all we've been told is these guys are no good because they're not fast, because they're UDFA's. Sure, nobody is using physical abilities as talent here. Until they do it again and again and again... I love it when the resident troll speaks for the masses... as if we haven't listened to the talent crowd moan about how fast DK Metcalf, Mecole Hardman or Justin Jefferson are all season. "God given talent" is the phrase... those are god's natural gifts; speed, vertical lift, mobility... athleticism. Execution is the ability to use those gifts. "Talent" if anything is a ubiquitous term to describe that you don't know how to explain something, so it must be something undefinable and unquantifiable... ergo, you're full of shit. You don't know what it is, but the Pats don't have it... then when they do well later on, magically they're talented because the talent fairy came and waved magic dust on them in the middle of the night... not because they got better at their jobs (execution). The WR's on this team aren't good because their QB is a flaming dumpster fire, the TE's are rookies and again, suffer because the QB is worthless unless you need a run. We'll never know how good they could be until they get some talent at QB. This team has a fair amount of talent, they're short on experience and execution. 60-72 without Brady. Zero division titles in eight years. You keep making walls of excuses and the facts stay the same. You keep screaming they have talent but don’t execute. Who the [expletive] is the the guy they pay to get teams/players to execute? THE COACH. |
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Post by solly on Jan 2, 2021 15:54:20 GMT -5
Jakobi, Gunner... all we've been told is these guys are no good because they're not fast, because they're UDFA's. Sure, nobody is using physical abilities as talent here. Until they do it again and again and again... I love it when the resident troll speaks for the masses... as if we haven't listened to the talent crowd moan about how fast DK Metcalf, Mecole Hardman or Justin Jefferson are all season. "God given talent" is the phrase... those are god's natural gifts; speed, vertical lift, mobility... athleticism. Execution is the ability to use those gifts. "Talent" if anything is a ubiquitous term to describe that you don't know how to explain something, so it must be something undefinable and unquantifiable... ergo, you're full of shit. You don't know what it is, but the Pats don't have it... then when they do well later on, magically they're talented because the talent fairy came and waved magic dust on them in the middle of the night... not because they got better at their jobs (execution). The WR's on this team aren't good because their QB is a flaming dumpster fire, the TE's are rookies and again, suffer because the QB is worthless unless you need a run. We'll never know how good they could be until they get some talent at QB. This team has a fair amount of talent, they're short on experience and execution. They probably rave about them cause they produce. Some guys simply don’t execute at a high enough level to be so consistently great. You say they’re short on experience and execution. In my opinion, if you execute consistently at a high level then you’re talented. For example, to me jakobi is a better receiver than Harry. Is that physical talent based or strictly because he’s a good football player who executes at a higher level than Harry? You have never heard me screaming for physically gifted people in the receiving core, just guys who simply produce and get results. A lot of this team are guys who simply aren’t that good, and a portion of them are in the front 7. Guys you can replace their production anywhere with anybody. JAGS . I’m not the only one that says it, must be a world full of trolls Also gunner being mentioned is funny, he’s just a bad receiver. No need to even bring his name up |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 15:58:21 GMT -5
60-72 without Brady. Zero division titles in eight years. You keep making walls of excuses and the facts stay the same. You keep screaming they have talent but don’t execute. Who the [expletive] is the the guy they pay to get teams/players to execute? THE COACH. They went 9-7 with Brady a season after winning the Super Bowl in 2001... what happened? Brady had the talent, lost it in 2002... then gained it back again in 2003? Football's a TEAM sport. If all they needed was Brady... why don't they have 20 championships? If all that was needed was the best QB, why does Dan Marino have zero rings, why does Eli have twice as many as Rogers and Brees? I assume you either have kids or have been around kids at some point in your life... why don't they do everything you want them to perfectly every time? It's so easy... all you have to do is tell them once... right? |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 16:02:24 GMT -5
And yeah Gunners a bad receiver, we know this because he's caught 100% of his targets this year... meanwhile Cam has been lights out as a passer.
And we know Gunner has no talent as well... that's why he's ranked #2 in the NFL in punt return yards and tied for 1st in TD's.
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 16:10:49 GMT -5
Randy Moss 2006 = No talent
Randy Moss 2007 = Most talent in history
^ Sounds legit...
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Post by solly on Jan 2, 2021 16:12:39 GMT -5
And yeah Gunners a bad receiver, we know this because he's caught 100% of his targets this year... meanwhile Cam has been lights out as a passer. And we know Gunner has no talent as well... that's why he's ranked #2 in the NFL in punt return yards and tied for 1st in TD's. Gunner barely gets on the field as a receiver, on a team with clear needs for receivers. I’m not going to argue Cam helped at all, but him not being on the field speaks to how they think he is. Sort of like stidham. And great gunner returns punts, when you get fluke games like the chargers he looks great. Unfortunately he doesn’t consistently impact games |
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Post by CWTB on Jan 2, 2021 16:13:49 GMT -5
Great QB to go by that the game of Football is a Team Game, it's Joe Namath.
172 TD's and 220 INT's. HOF
Thank god for the Defense and Matt Snell against the Colts.
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 16:24:13 GMT -5
Great QB to go by that the game of Football is a Team Game, it's Joe Namath. 172 TD's and 220 INT's. HOF Thank god for the Defense and Matt Snell against the Colts. We can only count QB’s who played after 2006, why? For no reason other than because the troll says so.. and we have to ignore Foles, Eli and whoever else. Maybe QB’s who played after 2006 had “talent,” before that they ran on moxie... and that’s something else entirely. |
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Post by patmando on Jan 2, 2021 16:26:09 GMT -5
60-72 without Brady. Zero division titles in eight years. You keep making walls of excuses and the facts stay the same. You keep screaming they have talent but don’t execute. Who the [expletive] is the the guy they pay to get teams/players to execute? THE COACH. They went 9-7 with Brady a season after winning the Super Bowl in 2001... what happened? Brady had the talent, lost it in 2002... then gained it back again in 2003? Football's a TEAM sport. If all they needed was Brady... why don't they have 20 championships? If all that was needed was the best QB, why does Dan Marino have zero rings, why does Eli have twice as many as Rogers and Brees? I assume you either have kids or have been around kids at some point in your life... why don't they do everything you want them to perfectly every time? It's so easy... all you have to do is tell them once... right? that the best you got. He has won more Super Bowls then most TEAMS, and you ask why he doesn’t have more? Really? He is the BEST ever, that doesn’t mean he wins every year. It means he does it better then anyone else. Plus not sure how Marino or Eli or Brees has to do with BB being 60-72 without Brady. Zero division titles in eight years. Oh wait it has nothing to do with it. It’s Wozzy changing the topic cause he can’t argue the reality of BB without Brady’s record. |
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Post by solly on Jan 2, 2021 16:27:58 GMT -5
Great QB to go by that the game of Football is a Team Game, it's Joe Namath. 172 TD's and 220 INT's. HOF Thank god for the Defense and Matt Snell against the Colts. We can only count QB’s who played after 2006, why? For no reason other than because the troll says so.. and we have to ignore Foles, Eli and whoever else. Maybe QB’s who played after 2006 had “talent,” before that they ran on moxie... and that’s something else entirely. Imagine thinking the game is played the same way today as in 1960. Only the delusional would think that. Factored in the polian rule change, which clearly made it a more pass friendly league. I never ignored those guys, you just can’t stay on topic. Grab a coffee |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 16:29:07 GMT -5
that the best you got. He has won more Super Bowls then most TEAMS, and you ask why he doesn’t have more? Really? He is the BEST ever, that doesn’t mean he wins every year. It means he does it better then anyone else. Plus not sure how Marino or Eli or Brees has to do with BB bring 60-72 without Brady. Zero division titles in eight years. Oh wait it has nothing to do. It’s Wozzy changing the topic cause he can’t argue the reality of BB without Brady’s record. Belichick has won more Super Bowls than most teams...what’s the point again? Bill drafted Brady, then turned him into a winning machine... he didn’t just appear out of the mist. |
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Post by Wozzy on Jan 2, 2021 16:32:48 GMT -5
Foles won 3 years ago... but we’re not allowed to use him as an example either.
Foles = Franchise QB = HOF QB
Foles must have talent, Marino, Deshaun Watson... not so much.
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Post by patmando on Jan 2, 2021 16:39:47 GMT -5
that the best you got. He has won more Super Bowls then most TEAMS, and you ask why he doesn’t have more? Really? He is the BEST ever, that doesn’t mean he wins every year. It means he does it better then anyone else. Plus not sure how Marino or Eli or Brees has to do with BB bring 60-72 without Brady. Zero division titles in eight years. Oh wait it has nothing to do. It’s Wozzy changing the topic cause he can’t argue the reality of BB without Brady’s record. Belichick has won more Super Bowls than most teams...what’s the point again? Bill drafted Brady, then turned him into a winning kmachine... he didn’t just appear out of the mist. BB made Brady. What a joke. Hmm what about the 10 other QB’s he drafted? Hmmm. That argument gets a 1 out of 10. Oh and dam look at the job BB did with Cam. HAHAHA ANOTHER WOZZY DOZZY. |
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Post by solly on Jan 2, 2021 16:44:06 GMT -5
Foles won 3 years ago... but we’re not allowed to use him as an example either. Foles = Franchise QB = HOF QB Foles must have talent, Marino, Deshaun Watson... not so much. Woozy can you point out to where I said you couldn’t use him? You didn’t comprehend any of that argument, you pick and choose what you want to hear You do know what more often than not means right? |
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