|
Post by backbay on Oct 20, 2021 6:46:37 GMT -5
If you run fora touchdown, isn’t it worth the same points, regardless of how you got there ie passing to meyers , hunter, angular or anybody else? Sure is. Right now, collectively, Patriots Red Zone offense sucks.
|
|
|
Post by backbay on Oct 20, 2021 6:48:34 GMT -5
ROFLMAO...I said the current WRs and TEs are UNPROVEN. YOU ARE WRONG lol Patriots Red Zone offense has been pretty bad since 2019. AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG LOL Hunter Henry is proven, Jonnu is proven, Jakobi has proven himself, Agholor led the NFL in yards per reception last year... you're wrong. It's literally in their stats. Just because the team is playing poorly this season doesn't mean "talent" disappeared, this isn't a video game where talent levels fluctuate each week. Who said individual talent disappeared? Noone
|
|
|
Post by solly on Oct 20, 2021 7:14:23 GMT -5
If you run fora touchdown, isn’t it worth the same points, regardless of how you got there ie passing to meyers , hunter, angular or anybody else? Depends...Ask TC about Cam running for TDs. Id bet he didnt think he got credit for those!
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 20, 2021 7:34:18 GMT -5
Hunter Henry is proven, Jonnu is proven, Jakobi has proven himself, Agholor led the NFL in yards per reception last year... you're wrong. It's literally in their stats. Just because the team is playing poorly this season doesn't mean "talent" disappeared, this isn't a video game where talent levels fluctuate each week. Who said individual talent disappeared? Noone agreed. the talent is there, including the QB collectively..the targets, OL, QB, the coaching staff...it is not working as well as it needs to in order to win games. we see starts and stops. will it be good enough to win 9-10 games to get to the playoffs? I see no evidence yet that it will. if the team comes out Sunday and blows the doors off the Jets 37-10 and plays a complete game, then that's really something to build off of. even if its the Jets. I am saying reducing mental mistake, penalties. OL plays physical and wins the LOS. the playmakers make numerous plays, not 1 or 2. the defense plays a complete game and wins TOP and 3rd downs. but if the team comes out and at halftime we are 10-10, this long season will continue into another excruciating week.
|
|
|
Post by texaspat on Oct 20, 2021 7:43:07 GMT -5
Is Steve actually making his own play calls or is Patricia doing so from booth to Steve’s headset? If that's the case, move on from both! The Patriots have always had a coaching edge on every team they played - for almost 20 years. But now? Losing quality assistant coaches like Donte Scarnecchia (OL), Brian Flores (LBs - defacto defensive coordinator) and Joe Judge (special teams) eventually takes its toll.
|
|
|
Post by backbay on Oct 20, 2021 7:55:25 GMT -5
If that's the case, move on from both! The Patriots have always had a coaching edge on every team they played - for almost 20 years. But now? Losing quality assistant coaches like Donte Scarnecchia (OL), Brian Flores (LBs - defacto defensive coordinator) and Joe Judge (special teams) eventually takes its toll. Yep. I hear ya. Maybe Flores will get fired; and he wants to come back. Or, maybe BB can start calling defensive plays.
|
|
|
Post by salcon on Oct 20, 2021 8:07:35 GMT -5
I've lost ALL Faith in most of the fans.
|
|
|
Post by backbay on Oct 20, 2021 8:31:20 GMT -5
I've lost ALL Faith in most of the fans. I doubt many fans care
|
|
|
Post by salcon on Oct 20, 2021 8:34:01 GMT -5
I've lost ALL Faith in most of the fans. I doubt many fans care I realize that. They're too busy being hysterical bitches.
|
|
|
Post by texaspat on Oct 20, 2021 9:36:30 GMT -5
I realize that. They're too busy being hysterical bitches. You're right. We should all be singing Kumbaya as the underachieving, poor play of this team continues. Now 0-4 at home.
|
|
|
Post by salcon on Oct 20, 2021 9:46:25 GMT -5
I realize that. They're too busy being hysterical bitches. You're right. We should all be singing Kumbaya as the underachieving, poor play of this team continues. Now 0-4 at home. Nobody's singing Kumbaya but there's certainly a lot of whining and crying going on. If that makes you feel better have at it. I wouldn't say they're underachieving. Well, maybe a little if you think they should be doing much better with a rookie QB with only 6 games under his belt, a mess of an Oline and a lot of new skill position players. So, I don't agree with you but I'm sure Solly would. You got that going for you at least.
|
|
|
Post by solly on Oct 20, 2021 10:05:18 GMT -5
You're right. We should all be singing Kumbaya as the underachieving, poor play of this team continues. Now 0-4 at home. Nobody's singing Kumbaya but there's certainly a lot of whining and crying going on. If that makes you feel better have at it. I wouldn't say they're underachieving. Well, maybe a little if you think they should be doing much better with a rookie QB with only 6 games under his belt, a mess of an Oline and a lot of new skill position players. So, I don't agree with you but I'm sure Solly would. You got that going for you at least. Ya like if you thought theyd be a playoff team and they are currently among the worst teams in the league? Thatd be the definition of underachieving
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 10:55:55 GMT -5
RFLMAO I see that you continue to cherry pick without proper context. In 2009 the Patriots had Randy Moss, Gronk, Wes Welker, Kevin Faulk, and Brady. I’m 2010, Pats had Brady, Gronk, Welker, Faulk, Branch, and Crumpler for blocking. In 2011, Pats had Brady, Branch, Welker, Hernandez, Faulk. So, Patriots did not need Edelman to do anything except groom him Again the CURRENT state of Patriots is a 2-4 record. The fact is that Judon has left no doubt as to his return on investment. Hunter is still a distant second on ROI to date, but appears to be improving. The rest of the off season acquisitions have NOT met expectations- even if they came in with a decent resume. Meyer still has 0 TDs this season. Number of receptions is good; but the Patriots need another WR or TE (apart from Hunter) to actually score TDs AND execute better in Red Zone. Thanks for proving yourself wrong AGAIN. No one is saying the players can’t improve in all areas. But, what they have done previously with other teams means diddly squat. It only matters how they produce for the Patriots. And, the overall outcome collectively is sub par; as reflected by their record You seem to think if you start every post with "RFLMAO" it lends them more weight, it doesn't. You said we had no weapons, I provided statistical proof that wasn't the case... facts. Facts don't cease to be true just because you refuse to accept them. And a mistake prone team, which we have now, that can happen to talented and not talented teams alike. The players on this team didn't get cursed by a witch who put a spell on them robbing them of their talent, Delilah didn't cut their hair while they were sleeping at night and rob them of their strength... that's not how real life actually works. All those teams above had a core of returning players, and believe it or not they also faced some growing pains in the first month of each season... but they're really not a good representation of this 2021 team. Do you know which team is? 2001 is a better example. Only Mac is starting a year earlier than Brady was and even that team had a core group of vets that had been there from earlier. This team isn't playing well but is slowly getting better. Players don't jump offsides or fumble balls because their talent disappeared, if Barry Sanders fumbles it doesn't mean he sucks in that moment and his talent will return momentarily... good grief.
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 11:02:41 GMT -5
Jacobi has played well. He is always open. but the games I have attended, he does not get much attention from the opposing teams. rarely is he double covered. Agholor did put up a very good season last year. he is not all of a sudden not talented. he is under utilized, and has a ton of missed opportunities. Smith has a ton of talent. he is under utilized and under performing. he has never produced to the extent that his contract warrants Harris has performed as expected. he is also dinged up as expected Mac has exceeded expectations, which were quite honestly low. he is coming on very nicely. but he has yet to put the team on his shoulders and win a game. I believe it is coming, but we have yet to see it So if a player gets open and catches the 7th most receptions in the NFL, he gets great separation and has talent... but if Jakobi Meyers does it for the Patriots it's because nobody is paying attention to him? Sounds legit... The blocking has been shit, and despite what all you "weapons suck" crowd think, football starts at the line of scrimmage, it's won and lost at the line of scrimmage. If they weren't fumbling, missing blocks, dropping passes, false start penalties this offense would be fine, this team would be 4-2 or even 5-1... they're playing poorly. It's not "talent." Mistakes don't manifest because players athleticism suddenly disappears. You guys said talent in 2014, 2016, and 2018... I can't remember a time we ever had talent or Hightower wasn't slow... ever.
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 11:03:56 GMT -5
Who said individual talent disappeared? Noone We're only having this conversation because you implied they don't have the talent to be good in the red zone.
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 20, 2021 11:05:03 GMT -5
Jacobi has played well. He is always open. but the games I have attended, he does not get much attention from the opposing teams. rarely is he double covered. Agholor did put up a very good season last year. he is not all of a sudden not talented. he is under utilized, and has a ton of missed opportunities. Smith has a ton of talent. he is under utilized and under performing. he has never produced to the extent that his contract warrants Harris has performed as expected. he is also dinged up as expected Mac has exceeded expectations, which were quite honestly low. he is coming on very nicely. but he has yet to put the team on his shoulders and win a game. I believe it is coming, but we have yet to see it So if a player gets open and catches the 7th most receptions in the NFL, he gets great separation and has talent... but if Jakobi Meyers does it for the Patriots it's because nobody is paying attention to him? Sounds legit... The blocking has been shit, and despite what all you "weapons suck" crowd think, football starts at the line of scrimmage, it's won and lost at the line of scrimmage. If they weren't fumbling, missing blocks, dropping passes, false start penalties this offense would be fine, this team would be 4-2 or even 5-1... they're playing poorly. It's not "talent." Mistakes don't manifest because players athleticism suddenly disappears. You guys said talent in 2014, 2016, and 2018... I can't remember a time we ever had talent or Hightower wasn't slow... ever. I think teams do not care if Meyers catches 10 balls per game. he will catch them 10 yards deep, and not gain any addtl yards. he will not score. he has talent, no doubt
|
|
|
Post by backbay on Oct 20, 2021 11:13:12 GMT -5
RFLMAO I see that you continue to cherry pick without proper context. In 2009 the Patriots had Randy Moss, Gronk, Wes Welker, Kevin Faulk, and Brady. I’m 2010, Pats had Brady, Gronk, Welker, Faulk, Branch, and Crumpler for blocking. In 2011, Pats had Brady, Branch, Welker, Hernandez, Faulk. So, Patriots did not need Edelman to do anything except groom him Again the CURRENT state of Patriots is a 2-4 record. The fact is that Judon has left no doubt as to his return on investment. Hunter is still a distant second on ROI to date, but appears to be improving. The rest of the off season acquisitions have NOT met expectations- even if they came in with a decent resume. Meyer still has 0 TDs this season. Number of receptions is good; but the Patriots need another WR or TE (apart from Hunter) to actually score TDs AND execute better in Red Zone. Thanks for proving yourself wrong AGAIN. No one is saying the players can’t improve in all areas. But, what they have done previously with other teams means diddly squat. It only matters how they produce for the Patriots. And, the overall outcome collectively is sub par; as reflected by their record You seem to think if you start every post with "RFLMAO" it lends them more weight, it doesn't. You said we had no weapons, I provided statistical proof that wasn't the case... facts. Facts don't cease to be true just because you refuse to accept them. And a mistake prone team, which we have now, that can happen to talented and not talented teams alike. The players on this team didn't get cursed by a witch who put a spell on them robbing them of their talent, Delilah didn't cut their hair while they were sleeping at night and rob them of their strength... that's not how real life actually works. All those teams above had a core of returning players, and believe it or not they also faced some growing pains in the first month of each season... but they're really not a good representation of this 2021 team. Do you know which team is? 2001 is a better example. Only Mac is starting a year earlier than Brady was and even that team had a core group of vets that had been there from earlier. This team isn't playing well but is slowly getting better. Players don't jump offsides or fumble balls because their talent disappeared, if Barry Sanders fumbles it doesn't mean he sucks in that moment and his talent will return momentarily... good grief. RFLMAO. I include RFLMAO because I’m laughing my ass off at your crying whining meaningless drivel posts. It has nothing to do with anything other than that. I did NOT say the Patriots have no weopons, nor do any of your cherry-picking data points prove anything. Again, the offensive off season acquisition have under performed. Their respective resumes of past performance with other teams MEANS DIDDLY SQUAT. I’m much more interested in their actual performance and productivity WITH THE PATRIOTS. No one said their individual talent disappeared. No one said they can’t improve as individuals or as a team.But the fact is that, collectively, they are NOT producing TDs and executing in the Red Zone. They are currently ranked 3rd from last. They are 2-4; regardless of the excuses, justifications, and rationalizations on why. Doesn’t matter. Still 2-4. Only the team, coaches, players can change with execution. It’s not going to change because of what you posted or because of how you feel about you’re own lame uneducated posts
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 11:15:43 GMT -5
I think teams do not care if Meyers catches 10 balls per game. he will catch them 10 yards deep, and not gain any addtl yards. he will not score. he has talent, no doubt Kendrick Bourne is the same speed as Meyers and burned the Cowboys vaunted defense for a 75 yard reception... I didn't see his lack of speed nor Mac's lack of arm strength on that play. Jakobi scored last game and Ferentz got flagged for a dumb holding call that was completely unnecessary, in the replay he clearly had the guy blocked, there was no need to grab. Was that because Jakobi wasn't fast enough? Negative Nancy's ^ bending over backwards to tell us why we suck, why all our players lack talent... when poor play actually explains it all.
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 11:17:28 GMT -5
RFLMAO. I include RFLMAO because I’m laughing my ass off at your crying whining meaningless drivel posts. It has nothing to do with anything other than that. I did NOT say the Patriots have no weopons, nor do any of your cherry-picking data points prove anything. Again, the offensive off season acquisition have under performed. Their respective resumes of past performance with other teams MEANS DIDDLY SQUAT. I’m much more interested in their actual performance and productivity WITH THE PATRIOTS. No one said their individual talent disappeared. No one said they can’t improve as individuals or as a team.But the fact is that, collectively, they are NOT producing TDs and executing in the Red Zone. They are currently ranked 3rd from last. They are 2-4; regardless of the excuses, justifications, and rationalizations on why. Doesn’t matter. Still 2-4. Only the team, coaches, players can change with execution. It’s not going to change because of what you posted or because of how you feel about you’re own lame uneducated posts Burp... You're just careening in the wind at this point.
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 20, 2021 11:20:06 GMT -5
I think teams do not care if Meyers catches 10 balls per game. he will catch them 10 yards deep, and not gain any addtl yards. he will not score. he has talent, no doubt Kendrick Bourne is the same speed as Meyers and burned the Cowboys vaunted defense for a 75 yard reception... I didn't see his lack of speed nor Mac's lack of arm strength on that play. Jakobi scored last game and Ferentz got flagged for a dumb holding call that was completely unnecessary, in the replay he clearly had the guy blocked, there was no need to grab. Was that because Jakobi wasn't fast enough? Negative Nancy's ^ bending over backwards to tell us why we suck, why all our players lack talent... when poor play actually explains it all. I think most posters here, other than you, are equating poor play as sucking that does not mean a player is with out talent. it means their current level of play sucks. I do not think Agholor sucks. I do not think Henry sucks. I do not think Meyers sucks. I do not think Bourne sucks. I think they are all underutilized and have missed opportunities. I do not know what is going on with Smith. Maybe sit him a game to get his head back in the game and see what Asiasi can do?
|
|
|
Post by Wozzy on Oct 20, 2021 11:23:14 GMT -5
Negative Nancy's ^ bending over backwards to tell us why we suck, why all our players lack talent... when poor play actually explains it all. I think most posters here, other than you, are equating poor play as sucking that does not mean a player is with out talent. it means their current level of play sucks. I do not think Agholor sucks. I do not think Henry sucks. I do not think Meyers sucks. I do not think Bourne sucks. I think they are all underutilized and have missed opportunities. I do not know what is going on with Smith. Maybe sit him a game to get his head back in the game and see what Asiasi can do? So you agree... they're just playing poorly. Just like early in 2018 when I told you the coaches had to do a better job, that BB had to coach the young coaches better and you said I was wrong.... they all need to do better. Believe it or not this team has been making incremental improvements... it wasn't enough to beat teams like Tampa or Dallas but they have played better and fixed errors. They need to do better still. Like I said before the Tampa game, I don't care about their record, I just want them to play good mistake free football.
|
|
|
Post by TrueChamp on Oct 20, 2021 11:46:07 GMT -5
If you run fora touchdown, isn’t it worth the same points, regardless of how you got there ie passing to meyers , hunter, angular or anybody else? Depends...Ask TC about Cam running for TDs. Id bet he didnt think he got credit for those! Rushing TDs only count for RB's. QBs who run, can't play the QB position. See Cam Newton and his 32000 passing yards. Also Lamar Jackson. He's not that good.
|
|
|
Post by cyncalpatsfan on Oct 20, 2021 11:46:20 GMT -5
You seem to think if you start every post with "RFLMAO" it lends them more weight, it doesn't. You said we had no weapons, I provided statistical proof that wasn't the case... facts. Facts don't cease to be true just because you refuse to accept them. And a mistake prone team, which we have now, that can happen to talented and not talented teams alike. The players on this team didn't get cursed by a witch who put a spell on them robbing them of their talent, Delilah didn't cut their hair while they were sleeping at night and rob them of their strength... that's not how real life actually works. All those teams above had a core of returning players, and believe it or not they also faced some growing pains in the first month of each season... but they're really not a good representation of this 2021 team. Do you know which team is? 2001 is a better example. Only Mac is starting a year earlier than Brady was and even that team had a core group of vets that had been there from earlier. This team isn't playing well but is slowly getting better. Players don't jump offsides or fumble balls because their talent disappeared, if Barry Sanders fumbles it doesn't mean he sucks in that moment and his talent will return momentarily... good grief. RFLMAO. I include RFLMAO because I’m laughing my ass off at your crying whining meaningless drivel posts. It has nothing to do with anything other than that. I did NOT say the Patriots have no weopons, nor do any of your cherry-picking data points prove anything. Again, the offensive off season acquisition have under performed. Their respective resumes of past performance with other teams MEANS DIDDLY SQUAT. I’m much more interested in their actual performance and productivity WITH THE PATRIOTS. No one said their individual talent disappeared. No one said they can’t improve as individuals or as a team.But the fact is that, collectively, they are NOT producing TDs and executing in the Red Zone. They are currently ranked 3rd from last. They are 2-4; regardless of the excuses, justifications, and rationalizations on why. Doesn’t matter. Still 2-4. Only the team, coaches, players can change with execution. It’s not going to change because of what you posted or because of how you feel about you’re own lame uneducated posts If your bolded statement above is true, then why bother looking at player stats in the draft or free agency? I mean, according to you, they don't mean anything. Apparently, they don't suggest what to expect in terms of future performance. Your observations concerning the team's record and lack of production in the red zone really adds nothing to conversation, as these are things we are all well aware of. Seems to me, Wozzy is making a perfectly reasonable statement, offering an explanation as to why players might be falling short of their career averages, at this point. By understanding the "why", it gives us some indication as to what we might be able to anticipate seeing as the season moves forward. Your statement, on the other hand, makes you seem more like one of those Karens we hear about from time to time. You point your fingers and make lots of noise, but there's really nothing there.
|
|
|
Post by TrueChamp on Oct 20, 2021 11:48:22 GMT -5
I think most posters here, other than you, are equating poor play as sucking that does not mean a player is with out talent. it means their current level of play sucks. I do not think Agholor sucks. I do not think Henry sucks. I do not think Meyers sucks. I do not think Bourne sucks. I think they are all underutilized and have missed opportunities. I do not know what is going on with Smith. Maybe sit him a game to get his head back in the game and see what Asiasi can do? So you agree... they're just playing poorly. Just like early in 2018 when I told you the coaches had to do a better job, that BB had to coach the young coaches better and you said I was wrong.... they all need to do better. Believe it or not this team has been making incremental improvements... it wasn't enough to beat teams like Tampa or Dallas but they have played better and fixed errors. They need to do better still. Like I said before the Tampa game, I don't care about their record, I just want them to play good mistake free football. Yeah but Wozzy help us out here. You also went to bat for the 2019 and 2020 group of pass catchers. You said they had plenty of talent. You were obviously wrong, no?
|
|
|
Post by salcon on Oct 20, 2021 13:02:55 GMT -5
RFLMAO. I include RFLMAO because I’m laughing my ass off at your crying whining meaningless drivel posts. It has nothing to do with anything other than that. I did NOT say the Patriots have no weopons, nor do any of your cherry-picking data points prove anything. Again, the offensive off season acquisition have under performed. Their respective resumes of past performance with other teams MEANS DIDDLY SQUAT. I’m much more interested in their actual performance and productivity WITH THE PATRIOTS. No one said their individual talent disappeared. No one said they can’t improve as individuals or as a team.But the fact is that, collectively, they are NOT producing TDs and executing in the Red Zone. They are currently ranked 3rd from last. They are 2-4; regardless of the excuses, justifications, and rationalizations on why. Doesn’t matter. Still 2-4. Only the team, coaches, players can change with execution. It’s not going to change because of what you posted or because of how you feel about you’re own lame uneducated posts If your bolded statement above is true, then why bother looking at player stats in the draft or free agency? I mean, according to you, they don't mean anything. Apparently, they don't suggest what to expect in terms of future performance. Your observations concerning the team's record and lack of production in the red zone really adds nothing to conversation, as these are things we are all well aware of. Seems to me, Wozzy is making a perfectly reasonable statement, offering an explanation as to why players might be falling short of their career averages, at this point. By understanding the "why", it gives us some indication as to what we might be able to anticipate seeing as the season moves forward. Your statement, on the other hand, makes you seem more like one of those Karens we hear about from time to time. You point your fingers and make lots of noise, but there's really nothing there. Well said!
|
|