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Post by johngrant on Jan 7, 2024 20:51:00 GMT -5
If BB is back there is absolutely no way that they will trade for Fields. lol if the next guy trades for him.
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Post by mthurl on Jan 7, 2024 20:55:41 GMT -5
If BB is back there is absolutely no way that they will trade for Fields. lol if the next guy trades for him. That was my initial impression, but then again, Bill seems to be infatuated with Lamar Jackson (rumor is they were interested in trading for him this off season too). Perhaps he envisions Fields in a similar manner? Maybe.
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Post by michiganadam on Jan 7, 2024 21:03:07 GMT -5
I still say there is too much uncertainty with these top 2 qb's, and I'd trade down 2 or 3 picks, draft one of the LT's, and then package picks( not 2024 2nd) and pick a QB in the 15 to 20 range, maybe Jayden, maybe Pennix, maybe Mccarthy. Then draft TE at top of round 2 and wr and ot with next 2 picks. Best your gonna do I think.
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Post by johngrant on Jan 7, 2024 21:09:53 GMT -5
If BB is back there is absolutely no way that they will trade for Fields. lol if the next guy trades for him. That was my initial impression, but then again, Bill seems to be infatuated with Lamar Jackson (rumor is they were interested in trading for him this off season too). Perhaps he envisions Fields in a similar manner? Maybe. Lamar is leaps and bounds better than Fields(who was his garbage self today vs Green Bay)
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Post by paulk on Jan 7, 2024 21:15:52 GMT -5
With pick #2 (wow, they got that far) the Patriots probably trade down. Dozens of other NFL owners will pay a fantastic premium to draft their player of the century at pick #2. The closest modern Patriot analogue to #2 would be pick #7 in 2008, the result of a trade to San Francisco where the 49ers never dreamed of having as bad a 2007 season as they actually had, which turned into pick #10 and a third rounder. #10 turned into Jerod Mayo. That deal is still paying dividends for the Pats 15 years later. The third rounder was a bust. New Orleans drafted Sedrick Ellis at #7. Ellis never signed a significant second contract, he just played out his rookie contract and then he pretty much disappeared, says Wikipedia. #3 pick, Paul. Still awesome. I caught a site that promised #2. I was surprised. They were wrong.
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Post by thehub on Jan 7, 2024 21:21:46 GMT -5
Bears will have the 1st and 9th picks overall. They should be focused on building around Justin Fields. Trade down from 1, get a franchise tackle and receiver and your on your way. Bears ownership are fools though, and will beg Caleb to enter the draft so they can pick their shiny new toy. I’m not sure about that, but I could be wrong. I don’t see why they don’t either pick Harrison or trade down and add even more. Fields has shown something the past couple months, and he has always had the tools. They’ve invested three years into him, he’s trending upwards now…why trade him? Rumor has it New England would have interest in Fields if available. Wonder what it would be like if we were able to grab him while drafting Harrison? I watched him play today and seems like every third down he tucked the ball and ran. Not a fan of this move. He does not see the field.
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Post by TrueChamp on Jan 7, 2024 22:32:57 GMT -5
Let's take a better version of Josh Allen in Drake Maye. Then find some actual offensive skill players.
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Post by thehub on Jan 7, 2024 22:41:17 GMT -5
Let's take a better version of Josh Allen in Drake Maye. Then find some actual offensive skill players. I would like that.
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Post by patsfan2007 on Jan 7, 2024 23:28:16 GMT -5
When making the pick, I only ask that we observe the definition of insanity: doing the same over and over again, but expecting a different result.
If we want to select a QB with the first pick, we cannot, must not do what everyone else has done over the many decades.
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Post by thehub on Jan 7, 2024 23:32:00 GMT -5
When making the pick, I only ask that we observe the definition of insanity: doing the same over and over again, but expecting a different result. If we want to select a QB with the first pick, we cannot, must not do what everyone else has done over the many decades. And what is that?
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Post by patsfan2007 on Jan 7, 2024 23:42:13 GMT -5
If you go back just over 40 years, these are the QB's taken with the #3 pick:
Out of 11, 2 are pretty good (Ryan and McNair), but none brought the drafting team a Super Bowl.
Trey Lance Sam Darnold Blake Bortles Matt Ryan Vince Young Joey Harrington Akili Smith Steve McNair Heath Shuler Jim Everett Jack Thompson
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Post by patsfan2007 on Jan 7, 2024 23:45:00 GMT -5
When making the pick, I only ask that we observe the definition of insanity: doing the same over and over again, but expecting a different result. If we want to select a QB with the first pick, we cannot, must not do what everyone else has done over the many decades. And what is that? Not yet sure what that is. I'll try to have a better idea by draft time.
But I think we can start to rule out what it is not: What Mel Kiper and his ilk tell us it is. Avoid the hype machines.
EDIT: the reason I say this is that every year the QB's get selected pretty much according to what the "experts" say. So we need to stop listening to the "experts" first and foremost.
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Post by patriotsnumero1fan on Jan 7, 2024 23:53:36 GMT -5
If you go back just over 40 years, these are the QB's taken with the #3 pick: Out of 11, 2 are pretty good (Ryan and McNair), but none brought the drafting team a Super Bowl. Trey Lance Sam Darnold Blake Bortles Matt Ryan Vince Young Joey Harrington Akili Smith Steve McNair Heath Shuler Jim Everett Jack Thompson A lot of them went to crappy franchises.
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Post by jamesbrady2020 on Jan 8, 2024 4:41:29 GMT -5
Both Caleb and MHJ haven't officially declared for the draft yet, which I think is super rare this late in the process. If even one of them stays in college for whatever reason that would be a huge game changer to how the draft and our pick might go. With the new college endorsement money possibilities, there is real incentive for these guys to stay longer instead of making the leap to the pros.
My guess is both declare but I'm not as sure as I was before.
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Post by mthurl on Jan 8, 2024 6:34:35 GMT -5
Let's take a better version of Josh Allen in Drake Maye. Then find some actual offensive skill players. It’s funny that you say that because as other QB’s start to emerge (and Maye had a few not so great showings), people forget, myself included, that he is on paper very much THAT type of talent. He has the size, the arm, the athleticism, the toughness, and probably the heart/brain to develop into what potentially could be a Burrows/Allen/Rothlisburger, type player. And we should be willing to do everything for that if it’s within reach. And sitting at 3 it very much is within reach. But now we’re hearing of Jayden Daniels, and maybe we should. And we’re hearing Penix, and maybe we again should. But two months ago it was Maye, and now that’s changed in OUR minds, but I’m not sure it has changed in the minds of scouts and the NFL community. To get a Josh Allen rather than a Teddy Bridgewater is a BIG DEAL. To get a Rothlisburger rather than a 24 year old rookie with two torn ACL’s (Penix) is a big deal. But who knows? Penix could become the next Dan Marino. Daniels could become the next Russell Wilson (the earlier model). And Maye could become Sam Darnold, but I’ll take a chance with a kid that is tall, has amazing arm talent, athletic, quick, big, tough. In holes he can improve on a few things that appear to be very coachable. Just my opinion.
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Post by DaPatriots on Jan 8, 2024 6:45:53 GMT -5
Let's take a better version of Josh Allen in Drake Maye. Then find some actual offensive skill players. It’s funny that you say that because as other QB’s start to emerge (and Maye had a few not so great showings), people forget, myself included, that he is on paper very much THAT type of talent. He has the size, the arm, the athleticism, the toughness, and probably the heart/brain to develop into what potentially could be a Burrows/Allen/Rothlisburger, type player. And we should be willing to do everything for that if it’s within reach. And sitting at 3 it very much is within reach. But now we’re hearing of Jayden Daniels, and maybe we should. And we’re hearing Penix, and maybe we again should. But two months ago it was Maye, and now that’s changed in OUR minds, but I’m not sure it has changed in the minds of scouts and the NFL community. To get a Josh Allen rather than a Teddy Bridgewater is a BIG DEAL. To get a Rothlisburger rather than a 24 year old rookie with two torn ACL’s (Penix) is a big deal. But who knows? Penix could become the next Dan Marino. Daniels could become the next Russell Wilson (the earlier model). And Maye could become Sam Darnold, but I’ll take a chance with a kid that is tall, has amazing arm talent, athletic, quick, big, tough. In holes he can improve on a few things that appear to be very coachable. Just my opinion. That's my whole problem. Fake Maye (thanks wonderdrums!) does not have impressive arm talent or pocket presence.
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Post by patslifer on Jan 8, 2024 6:59:42 GMT -5
If BB is back there is absolutely no way that they will trade for Fields. lol if the next guy trades for him. That was my initial impression, but then again, Bill seems to be infatuated with Lamar Jackson (rumor is they were interested in trading for him this off season too). Perhaps he envisions Fields in a similar manner? Maybe. If that's the case, then there are a number of QBs in this upcoming draft like Daniels and Williams (to name 2) that fit the Lamar Jackson mold. And, you are getting them on a rookie deal for 5 years versus a mega contract you would have to shell out for Jackson. At a minimum, they need to walk away from this draft with a franchise QB and LT. No small task. I don't think the FA market is going to be rich in LTs so this should push prices up and many will be hunting for one in the draft early.
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Post by rkarp on Jan 8, 2024 8:06:28 GMT -5
Bears-Caleb Wash-Maye Pats-Daniels
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Post by johngrant on Jan 8, 2024 8:09:51 GMT -5
It’s funny that you say that because as other QB’s start to emerge (and Maye had a few not so great showings), people forget, myself included, that he is on paper very much THAT type of talent. He has the size, the arm, the athleticism, the toughness, and probably the heart/brain to develop into what potentially could be a Burrows/Allen/Rothlisburger, type player. And we should be willing to do everything for that if it’s within reach. And sitting at 3 it very much is within reach. But now we’re hearing of Jayden Daniels, and maybe we should. And we’re hearing Penix, and maybe we again should. But two months ago it was Maye, and now that’s changed in OUR minds, but I’m not sure it has changed in the minds of scouts and the NFL community. To get a Josh Allen rather than a Teddy Bridgewater is a BIG DEAL. To get a Rothlisburger rather than a 24 year old rookie with two torn ACL’s (Penix) is a big deal. But who knows? Penix could become the next Dan Marino. Daniels could become the next Russell Wilson (the earlier model). And Maye could become Sam Darnold, but I’ll take a chance with a kid that is tall, has amazing arm talent, athletic, quick, big, tough. In holes he can improve on a few things that appear to be very coachable. Just my opinion. That's my whole problem. Fake Maye (thanks wonderdrums!) does not have impressive arm talent or pocket presence. I’m not sure what to think about Maye but he definitely has ample arm strength. No question
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Post by DaPatriots on Jan 8, 2024 10:54:18 GMT -5
That's my whole problem. Fake Maye (thanks wonderdrums!) does not have impressive arm talent or pocket presence. I’m not sure what to think about Maye but he definitely has ample arm strength. No question Ample, yes. Impressive, no. Josh Allen is 10x the player Drake Is right now. He's thrown some Mac level wait and run back for my deep ball.
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Post by patsfan2007 on Jan 8, 2024 11:15:56 GMT -5
These are the QB's taken from picks 6 to 10 over the last 40 years or so:
This is a better group: Herbert, Allen and Mahomes.
The smart move (which I believe BB would make) is to trade #3, maybe first to the Bears @#8 and make the QB pick there.
No value in making the QB pick @ #3 vs #8.
Justin Herbert Daniel Jones Josh Allen Josh Rosen Patrick Mahomes Ryan Tannehill Jake Locker Blaine Gabbert Matt Leinart Trent Dilfer David Klingler Andre Ware Kelly Stouffer
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Post by thehub on Jan 8, 2024 11:25:41 GMT -5
These are the QB's taken from picks 6 to 10 over the last 40 years or so: This is a better group: Herbert, Allen and Mahomes. The smart move (which I believe BB would make) is to trade #3, maybe first to the Bears @#8 and make the QB pick there. No value in making the QB pick @ #3 vs #8. Justin Herbert Daniel Jones Josh Allen Josh Rosen Patrick Mahomes Ryan Tannehill Jake Locker Blaine Gabbert Matt Leinart Trent Dilfer David Klingler Andre Ware Kelly Stouffer You’re posting some really good information. However, each draft is very different on team needs and if there’s a stud offensive or defensive player that pushes quarterbacks back a little bit. History does teach me that quarterbacks are always overdrafted and a large percentage of them do not pan out. However, when you do hit on one, it is game changing for that franchise, so much that you can’t help but punch the ticket for one of these guys
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Post by TrueChamp on Jan 8, 2024 11:34:05 GMT -5
I’m not sure what to think about Maye but he definitely has ample arm strength. No question Ample, yes. Impressive, no. Josh Allen is 10x the player Drake Is right now. He's thrown some Mac level wait and run back for my deep ball. I posted this a while back. I have no idea where you formed this opinion on Maye, but he is ahead of where Allen was as a prospect and it isn't just the stats. It also isn't really close. We don't know who will become franchise QBs, but I'd rather draft a kid with these intangibles. Drake Maye at 6'4 230 runs a 4.60 40 Josh Allen at 6'5 230 runs a 4.75 40 In 2 years starting 25 games Drake Maye had 7,900 passing yards 62 TDs 16 INT's 65% completion, with another 1,200 rushing yards and 16 more rushing TDs. That's 9,100 total yards 78 TDs. In 2 years starting 25 games Josh Allen had 5,000 passing yards 44 TDS 21 INT's 56% completion, with another 700 rushing yards and 12 more rushing TDS. That's 5.700 total yards 56 TDs. I realize NCAA football can make it tough to compare players, but I think the comps to Josh Allen are spot on for Maye. If anything, he is a more complete prospect!
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Post by TrueChamp on Jan 8, 2024 11:35:56 GMT -5
Let's take a better version of Josh Allen in Drake Maye. Then find some actual offensive skill players. It’s funny that you say that because as other QB’s start to emerge (and Maye had a few not so great showings), people forget, myself included, that he is on paper very much THAT type of talent. He has the size, the arm, the athleticism, the toughness, and probably the heart/brain to develop into what potentially could be a Burrows/Allen/Rothlisburger, type player. And we should be willing to do everything for that if it’s within reach. And sitting at 3 it very much is within reach. But now we’re hearing of Jayden Daniels, and maybe we should. And we’re hearing Penix, and maybe we again should. But two months ago it was Maye, and now that’s changed in OUR minds, but I’m not sure it has changed in the minds of scouts and the NFL community. To get a Josh Allen rather than a Teddy Bridgewater is a BIG DEAL. To get a Rothlisburger rather than a 24 year old rookie with two torn ACL’s (Penix) is a big deal. But who knows? Penix could become the next Dan Marino. Daniels could become the next Russell Wilson (the earlier model). And Maye could become Sam Darnold, but I’ll take a chance with a kid that is tall, has amazing arm talent, athletic, quick, big, tough. In holes he can improve on a few things that appear to be very coachable. Just my opinion. Agreed. I watched Allen last night, and he plays with absolute fire. Cannon arm. Extends plays. Runs the hell out of the ball. Takes too many chances but I would take that kind of player any day as my QB for the next 5-10 years.
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Post by johngrant on Jan 8, 2024 12:01:57 GMT -5
Ample, yes. Impressive, no. Josh Allen is 10x the player Drake Is right now. He's thrown some Mac level wait and run back for my deep ball. I posted this a while back. I have no idea where you formed this opinion on Maye, but he is ahead of where Allen was as a prospect and it isn't just the stats. It also isn't really close. We don't know who will become franchise QBs, but I'd rather draft a kid with these intangibles. Drake Maye at 6'4 230 runs a 4.60 40 Josh Allen at 6'5 230 runs a 4.75 40 In 2 years starting 25 games Drake Maye had 7,900 passing yards 62 TDs 16 INT's 65% completion, with another 1,200 rushing yards and 16 more rushing TDs. That's 9,100 total yards 78 TDs. In 2 years starting 25 games Josh Allen had 5,000 passing yards 44 TDS 21 INT's 56% completion, with another 700 rushing yards and 12 more rushing TDS. That's 5.700 total yards 56 TDs. I realize NCAA football can make it tough to compare players, but I think the comps to Josh Allen are spot on for Maye. If anything, he is a more complete prospect! I could be way off on this but I don’t see Maye being as durable as Allen if he runs it at much in the pros as Allen does. Allen is a FreakBeast
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