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Post by rkarp on Oct 22, 2021 10:46:25 GMT -5
So BB was one of the best team builders in football for decades but fell apart last year when he decided to shed cap debt, reset and move on from Tom… sounds legit. The biggest misnomer about Pat’s teams over the entire 20 year reign was “the Pat’s win with less talent.” They always had talent surrounding Tom, more or less depending on his contract. The 2021 team is poorly disciplined, mistake prone, bad at blocking, nearly leading the league in offensive turnovers… coaching is an issue right now… ironic since coaching is the only thing Bill does well according to the haters here. A lot of us will have your back on that one. The belief that we won with poor talent all those years is absolute horse shit. In the 19 years Brady started I thought there were only two seasons where we were rather low on talent. That's not bad. Sure, some years were better than others but we've almost always had a good team. Sucky teams ain't making it to the SB, no matter who is QB. They aren't even making it to the AFCCG. 2019, the roster was aging and lacked depth. the draft choices made the prior few years simply did not pan out I would say combined with injury, the 2019 team was the least talented group in BB's tenure excluding the team he inherited in years 1/2
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Post by carawaydj on Oct 22, 2021 10:47:51 GMT -5
A lot of us will have your back on that one. The belief that we won with poor talent all those years is absolute horse shit. In the 19 years Brady started I thought there were only two seasons where we were rather low on talent. That's not bad. Sure, some years were better than others but we've almost always had a good team. Sucky teams ain't making it to the SB, no matter who is QB. They aren't even making it to the AFCCG. Which teams did you think were low on talent? Just out of curiosity I didn't like 2006 and 2019. I'm sure we could quibble about one or two other teams but 2006 and 2019 were especially bad to me. Of course, I'm mostly referring to offensive talent. EDIT: I've said that 2006 was probably Brady's finest season. We damned near made it to the SB that season. I thought that season epitomized the GOAT and what made him different.
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Post by salcon on Oct 22, 2021 10:48:01 GMT -5
Because theres no consistent data to backup the fact that young running backs fumble more...We are going back a few posts when you said you didnt need data to prove that. If Kevin Faulk is your example, then I can give you Damien Harris, whos fumbling more as his career goes on. I just dont think experience correlates with fumbling. Young players are more often than not less experienced and reliable than vets… 100+ years of football truisms don’t become less true because Solly has a point to make on PFFF.net. Young players who don’t fix fumbling issues find themselves on the unemployment line and rare exceptions don’t make the rule. Careful, you're getting sucked down the Solly rabbit hole to Crazy Town.
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Post by solly on Oct 22, 2021 10:54:24 GMT -5
Which teams did you think were low on talent? Just out of curiosity I didn't like 2006 and 2019. I'm sure we could quibble about one or two other teams but 2006 and 2019 were especially bad to me. Of course, I'm mostly referring to offensive talent. The reason why I ask, is because currently we are currently talking about poor coaching on this team...And I do agree, that this team has the traits of a poorly coached team...But knowing whos coaching them and the history of his coaching, I dont know if I want to believe they're poorly coached. If you remember in A Football life following the 09 team (I believe this team sucked by Patriot standards), BB says to Brady after the Saints game "I just cant get this team to play the way we need to play". So at what point do we differentiate coaching from the overall ability of the roster?
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Post by solly on Oct 22, 2021 10:55:27 GMT -5
Young players are more often than not less experienced and reliable than vets… 100+ years of football truisms don’t become less true because Solly has a point to make on PFFF.net. Young players who don’t fix fumbling issues find themselves on the unemployment line and rare exceptions don’t make the rule. Careful, you're getting sucked down the Solly rabbit hole to Crazy Town. No need to jump in a discussion if you have nothing to offer, which is usually the case...Just click the like or dislike like you do
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Post by rkarp on Oct 22, 2021 11:04:42 GMT -5
I didn't like 2006 and 2019. I'm sure we could quibble about one or two other teams but 2006 and 2019 were especially bad to me. Of course, I'm mostly referring to offensive talent. The reason why I ask, is because currently we are currently talking about poor coaching on this team...And I do agree, that this team has the traits of a poorly coached team...But knowing whos coaching them and the history of his coaching, I dont know if I want to believe they're poorly coached. If you remember in A Football life following the 09 team (I believe this team sucked by Patriot standards), BB says to Brady after the Saints game "I just cant get this team to play the way we need to play". So at what point do we differentiate coaching from the overall ability of the roster? its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews
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Post by tanbass on Oct 22, 2021 11:18:44 GMT -5
The reason why I ask, is because currently we are currently talking about poor coaching on this team...And I do agree, that this team has the traits of a poorly coached team...But knowing whos coaching them and the history of his coaching, I dont know if I want to believe they're poorly coached. If you remember in A Football life following the 09 team (I believe this team sucked by Patriot standards), BB says to Brady after the Saints game "I just cant get this team to play the way we need to play". So at what point do we differentiate coaching from the overall ability of the roster? its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews I have zero issues looking at replacing the older players. Nobody on this list should be safe. If some is better, get him in there. The best players at each position should be playing, period.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 11:32:09 GMT -5
Again, There's plenty of examples of players that fumble just as much as veterans as they do as rookies...Good players. Damien Harris is one. The overall sentiment which you are reciting I agree with...Especially at quarterback. I simply don't agree with that being the issue at running back in terms of putting the ball on the ground. Not sure what PFFF.net is Harris is a young player, that you believe a part time/first time starter last year and six games into this one is an “example” is laughable. JJ Taylor and Stevenson are also young players. If they’re smart they’ll learn from their fumbles and blocking gaffes and improve. Young players are generally less reliable players… Young players improve over time… I can’t believe this ^ is considered controversial to you… once again proving attack the messenger regardless of the message.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 11:39:37 GMT -5
its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews BB moved on from Tom because they went all in from 2014-2019 and accumulated cap debt. They had a bunch of starters beyond Tom who they couldn’t afford or who priced themselves out of town. The reset and spending spree in 20/21 is proof of that. BB hired and played Otis Smith and Roman Phifer near 40 at much more physically taxing positions than QB. What does “we have one time talented players not playing” mean?
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 11:46:40 GMT -5
I have zero issues looking at replacing the older players. Nobody on this list should be safe. If some is better, get him in there. The best players at each position should be playing, period. DMC at 34 (oldest player mentioned), is a year younger than Otis Smith when he was hired in 2000 and two years younger than when he started at CB at a high level for the Super Bowl winning team in 2001. This 2021 defense has also given up the 9th fewest points in the NFL despite playing Dallas, Tampa and their offense being ranked 29th in turnovers. Rkarp (and others) was telling us McCourty, Hightower and others were “slow” and “old” in 2018… they won the championship by putting on one of the best defensive performances in a Super Bowl ever… then followed it up by putting the #1 ranked defense in both points and yards in 2019. It’s always “talent,” none of these talent sucks posters have ever seen poor execution… it doesn’t exist like the cap doesn’t exist.
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Post by carawaydj on Oct 22, 2021 11:50:31 GMT -5
The reason why I ask, is because currently we are currently talking about poor coaching on this team...And I do agree, that this team has the traits of a poorly coached team...But knowing whos coaching them and the history of his coaching, I dont know if I want to believe they're poorly coached. If you remember in A Football life following the 09 team (I believe this team sucked by Patriot standards), BB says to Brady after the Saints game "I just cant get this team to play the way we need to play". So at what point do we differentiate coaching from the overall ability of the roster? its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews Why do you have Andrews on that list? Also, Bolden is IMHO a special teams, emergency RB being asked to do more than he should right now. KVN is definitely not showing anything. His groin? Hightower maybe possibly is returning to form. DMC? I dunno. He had one really ugly game. No great games either. I probably need to reserve judgment for now. I suspect both he and Hightower will will acquitting themselves well later. Note: I distinguish between a player who is washed up because of age and a player who is temporarily playing mediocre. You may ask how I can tell the difference. I can't. That's why I need to reserve judgment for now.
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Post by TrueChamp on Oct 22, 2021 11:54:21 GMT -5
its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews BB moved on from Tom because they went all in from 2014-2019 and accumulated cap debt. They had a bunch of starters beyond Tom who they couldn’t afford or who priced themselves out of town. The reset and spending spree in 20/21 is proof of that. BB hired and played Otis Smith and Roman Phifer near 40 at much more physically taxing positions than QB. What does “we have one time talented players not playing” mean? Finally a BB defender of the faith can admit that BB moved on from Tom. Unfortunately he blames the salary cap, when in actuality it was Bill who decided to blow it up after the 2017 season because he wanted to rebuild then. You know the 2017 season where we had the "most cap space in the NFL" going in? How can you be in cap hell and have the most cap space? LOL I'm dead.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 12:01:15 GMT -5
Finally a BB defender of the faith can admit that BB moved on from Tom. Unfortunately he blames the salary cap, when in actuality it was Bill who decided to blow it up after the 2017 season because he wanted to rebuild then. You know the 2017 season where we had the "most cap space in the NFL" going in? How can you be in cap hell and have the most cap space? LOL I'm dead. Re-signing Tom in 2020 was a nonstarter because they were up to their ears in cap debt. He wasn’t alone, Collins, Van Noy… there were a bunch of vets they had to let walk because they couldn’t afford them while still fielding a competitive team. Brady knew the cap situation as well, Tampa was a much better situation. Parting ways was best for player and team at that time, it allowed the team to regroup and spend an obscene amount of money in 2021, it allowed them to get a cost controlled rookie QB in place so they could be players in free agency for the next five years. You don’t understand the cap and whenever anyone besides Rkarp, who reaffirms your ignorance, tries to explain it you cover your ears and play dumb. You became a negative nancy the moment Tom chose to leave… sad but true.
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Post by patriotsnumero1fan on Oct 22, 2021 12:10:57 GMT -5
I remember some posters here saying in 2019 that Brady wasn’t working with the rookies yadda yadda. Harry started to take more of the snaps from Meyers when he came back. How does that look now? Harry blows! Another terrible pick.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 12:15:20 GMT -5
I remember some posters here saying in 2019 that Brady wasn’t working with the rookies yadda yadda. Harry started to take more of the snaps from Meyers when he came back. How does that look now? Harry blows! Another terrible pick. Harry was injured in 2019 and missed most of the season, Tom also had Jakobi Meyers benched after the Brown’s game so he could have more Sanu. Meyers is a good player, right now it looks stupid as it did then. Sanu was always average but had a name. Your memory is tinged with fanboy revisionism.
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Post by solly on Oct 22, 2021 12:15:57 GMT -5
Again, There's plenty of examples of players that fumble just as much as veterans as they do as rookies...Good players. Damien Harris is one. The overall sentiment which you are reciting I agree with...Especially at quarterback. I simply don't agree with that being the issue at running back in terms of putting the ball on the ground. Not sure what PFFF.net is Harris is a young player, that you believe a part time/first time starter last year and six games into this one is an “example” is laughable. JJ Taylor and Stevenson are also young players. If they’re smart they’ll learn from their fumbles and blocking gaffes and improve. Young players are generally less reliable players… Young players improve over time… I can’t believe this ^ is considered controversial to you… once again proving attack the messenger regardless of the message. Well thats an example of a guy in house. I could find many more as well. But it doesnt seem like you want to keep this going even though you keep responding
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 12:17:55 GMT -5
Well thats an example of a guy in house. I could find many more as well. But it doesnt seem like you want to keep this going even though you keep responding There’s no point arguing with someone so biased he’ll plant a flag that rookie players leave college finished products… an idea so colossally stupid it defies logic.
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Post by solly on Oct 22, 2021 12:18:47 GMT -5
Well thats an example of a guy in house. I could find many more as well. But it doesnt seem like you want to keep this going even though you keep responding There’s no point arguing with someone so biased he’ll plant a flag that rookie players leave college finished products… an idea so colossally stupid it defies logic. At running back, you continue to leave that out. Not sure what Im biased for/against here. Doesnt really make much sense. Maybe I am biased against running backs
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Post by rkarp on Oct 22, 2021 12:19:51 GMT -5
its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews BB moved on from Tom because they went all in from 2014-2019 and accumulated cap debt. They had a bunch of starters beyond Tom who they couldn’t afford or who priced themselves out of town. The reset and spending spree in 20/21 is proof of that.BB hired and played Otis Smith and Roman Phifer near 40 at much more physically taxing positions than QB. What does “we have one time talented players not playing” mean? pls stop with the nonsense.
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Post by rkarp on Oct 22, 2021 12:21:07 GMT -5
its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews I have zero issues looking at replacing the older players. Nobody on this list should be safe. If some is better, get him in there. The best players at each position should be playing, period. my take is DMC, KVN and High and Bolden will not be here next season. why not get the young guys on the field now and they would be ready for next year
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 12:21:28 GMT -5
At running back, you continue to leave that out. Not sure what Im biased for/against here. Doesnt really make much sense You’ve moved the goalposts to only include RB’s because you realized how stupid it sounded and how stacked the argument was against you considering the struggles at RT and elsewhere. RB’s are now magical creatures who don’t endure rookie growing pains… just as dumb as before but maybe if you post the last word it will look smarter.
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Post by Wozzy on Oct 22, 2021 12:23:49 GMT -5
pls stop with the nonsense. You didn’t understand the difference between “cap” and “dead cap,” once I had to explain to you what a screen pass was… stick with things you know like hindsight GM’ing and clickbait.
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Post by solly on Oct 22, 2021 12:26:06 GMT -5
At running back, you continue to leave that out. Not sure what Im biased for/against here. Doesnt really make much sense You’ve moved the goalposts to only include RB’s because you realized how stupid it sounded and how stacked the argument was against you considering the struggles at RT and elsewhere. RB’s are now magical creatures who don’t endure rookie growing pains… just as dumb as before but maybe if you post the last word it will look smarter. No, I pointed out that all your examples on defense didnt make sense...Then you said the defense was good. Ill never change your mind even though theres a lot of people who disagree with you That left running backs, QBs and Part time tackles...QBs are obvious, totally agree with you, and I agreed theyd didnt intend on having these specific tackles play a heavy amount of snaps. The running backs arent magical creatures, they just dont need to develop to stop fumbling. As proven across the league. They all fumble, whether theyre young, old or in between. There are plenty of veterans holding this team back, they are a generally old roster
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Post by rkarp on Oct 22, 2021 12:38:15 GMT -5
its not coaching imo its the talent Wozzy harps on players not all of sudden not having their talent. well he's wrong. as players age, it happens. BB thought it would happen to TB and acted on it well this season we have one time talented players not playing: DMC KVN Hightower Bolden Andrews BB moved on from Tom because they went all in from 2014-2019 and accumulated cap debt. They had a bunch of starters beyond Tom who they couldn’t afford or who priced themselves out of town. The reset and spending spree in 20/21 is proof of that. BB hired and played Otis Smith and Roman Phifer near 40 at much more physically taxing positions than QB. What does “we have one time talented players not playing” mean? I didn't say an aging player cannot play well. Look at Brady. I said a talented player, as he ages, does not play as well. We see it with DMC, Hightower and KVN. clearly they are on their last legs/season. BB always said "a year too soon rather than a year too late". Andrews for me was always more intelligent than physically gifted. he never had that half step to lose. he seems to have lost that half step, or he is struggling with out Thuney beside him. Bolden is taking snaps from JJT. JJT should be playing to see if he has a role here next season.
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Post by rkarp on Oct 22, 2021 12:39:39 GMT -5
pls stop with the nonsense. You didn’t understand the difference between “cap” and “dead cap,” once I had to explain to you what a screen pass was… stick with things you know like hindsight GM’ing and clickbait. yes, I know. and you won a bet and I am a Jets fan you love to deflect now post a meme to move off topic
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