|
|
Post by patslifer on Oct 10, 2017 11:44:25 GMT -5
why make a judgement on a players career for one play? I guess another way to look at it, is that every game is big, and Welkie showed up for every single one of them (well he missed a couple). JE has missed almost 50% of them. you ask, "who do I want on the other end?" I want the guy that is always on the field. always again, I love JE. but for their careers, not for one play, Welkie the proven better performer. let's be fair here. Edelman didn't have the history of playing WR in college nor prior like Welker. The first few years of Edelman's career, he was a backup, played DB, returned punts, and sat behind better players learning the role of WR. he's not going to have as prolific a career as Welker given Welker's head start and pedigree. But, all things being equal, both at their peak, and both healthy, I'd take Edelman over Welker. Why? Edelman is bigger, faster, quicker, stronger and is a far better hand catcher than Welker. Edelman is more diverse in the routes he runs. He can also carry the rock more effectively on reverses. I think he is just overall more dynamic with the ball in his hands, able to rip off the big play. He's also a move the chains WR in the Welker mold. He's a better athlete than Welker. he also performs well in big situations. I know Welker has as well, but I remember more than a few times (SB + playoff game against the Ravens), that he dropped key passes at critical times in the game. Welker is not making that catch that Edelman made on the tip in last year's SB win. |
|
|
|
WES WELKER
Oct 10, 2017 12:12:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 12:12:12 GMT -5
you keep making the same arguement over and over. I told you, welker is all yours. I'll take the guy who produces in the big game in the biggest moments. Those 120 catches in the regular season really helped when he dropped the pass in the super bowl. 3 secs to go in the super bowl. Pats down by 6. Brady lofts a pass into the end zone. Who you want on the other end...welker, Edelman or Danny hands? I'll take prime Welker over both. His productivity over many seasons proves the guy is better. Both Edelman and Amendola have dropped passes at key times, don't fool yourself in believing they have t. I have references if you need them. yea Tom Brady didn't win every super bowl so he sucks. Edelman was huge in WINNING 2 Super Bowls but he dropped a pass in the regular season. Just terrible. Welker is so "productive" but Zero Super Bowls. What's amazing is your making the take Peyton over Brady arguement. Peyton has all the stats, mvps he is so "productive". Of course sane people took Brady and his super bowl rings. So your team has manning and welker. I got Brady and Edelman. I like my chances. |
|
|
|
Post by olemiss on Oct 10, 2017 12:14:08 GMT -5
Wes was a great Patriot and we would not have been to that Super Bowl without him. He is defined by his stellar career, not by one pass play, which surely could have been better thrown by the GOAT!
|
|
|
|
WES WELKER
Oct 10, 2017 12:30:41 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 12:30:41 GMT -5
Wes was a great Patriot and we would not have been to that Super Bowl without him. He is defined by his stellar career, not by one pass play, which surely could have been better thrown by the GOAT! how well thrown was that ball that was tipped up in the air and Edelman out fought 3 Falcons for? Welker got BOTH hands on the ball and dropped it. |
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 10, 2017 13:07:02 GMT -5
why make a judgement on a players career for one play? I guess another way to look at it, is that every game is big, and Welkie showed up for every single one of them (well he missed a couple). JE has missed almost 50% of them. you ask, "who do I want on the other end?" I want the guy that is always on the field. always again, I love JE. but for their careers, not for one play, Welkie the proven better performer. question was who would you rather have welker or Edelman. I would take Edelman. He came up big in the big moments, welker did not. Why is that so hard to understand? Oh and welker would have missed a full season if his knee injury didn't come in the last game of the season. you are answering the question; " who would you rather have for one play"....I am answering the question; "who would you rather have for their career" |
|
|
|
WES WELKER
Oct 10, 2017 13:13:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 13:13:07 GMT -5
question was who would you rather have welker or Edelman. I would take Edelman. He came up big in the big moments, welker did not. Why is that so hard to understand? Oh and welker would have missed a full season if his knee injury didn't come in the last game of the season. you are answering the question; " who would you rather have for one play"....I am answering the question; "who would you rather have for their career" no I am not. I want the leader, warrior, never give up, makes the big plays every week AND in the big games. You can have the productive regular season wr who is 0-3 in Super Bowls. You do realize Tom Brady is 5-0 in Super Bowls without welker and 0-2 with him. Gisselle was onto something. |
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 10, 2017 13:41:06 GMT -5
you are answering the question; " who would you rather have for one play"....I am answering the question; "who would you rather have for their career" no I am not. I want the leader, warrior, never give up, makes the big plays every week AND in the big games. You can have the productive regular season wr who is 0-3 in Super Bowls. You do realize Tom Brady is 5-0 in Super Bowls without welker and 0-2 with him. Gisselle was onto something. again, what is TB's record with Moss? that is a poor way to analyse the two players careersyou do realize in the playoffs only, Welkie has a higher catch percentage than JE, right? in Pats SB's, Welkie has 18 catches on 22 targets. JE in 3 SB's has 14 catches on 25 targets. |
|
|
|
Post by muzwell on Oct 10, 2017 13:52:46 GMT -5
Who would be viewed as better if Lynch had scored and if the Falcons had kicked a field goal? If those things had happened, would Edelman not be the player he is viewed as today?
Or, if Tyree hadn't been born? Or, Samuel hung on to the ball? If any of those things had happened, would Welker somehow be remembered as a better player than he was?
None of those things had a darn thing to do with either receiver, but somehow their legacies are affected forever?
|
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 10, 2017 14:01:17 GMT -5
Who would be viewed as better if Lynch had scored and if the Falcons had kicked a field goal? If those things had happened, would Edelman not be the player he is viewed as today? Or, if Tyree hadn't been born? Or, Samuel hung on to the ball? If any of those things had happened, would Welker somehow be remembered as a better player than he was? None of those things had a darn thing to do with either receiver, but somehow their legacies are affected forever? Muzzy-sense |
|
|
|
Post by jri37 on Oct 10, 2017 14:01:51 GMT -5
Who would be viewed as better if Lynch had scored and if the Falcons had kicked a field goal? If those things had happened, would Edelman not be the player he is viewed as today? Or, if Tyree hadn't been born? Or, Samuel hung on to the ball? If any of those things had happened, would Welker somehow be remembered as a better player than he was? None of those things had a darn thing to do with either receiver, but somehow their legacies are affected forever? You could also say in those games there are the catches in big spots by Edelman that contributed heavily in the last 2 SB wins and the Drops in the SB and AFCCG by Welker that contributed heavily to them losing those 2 games. I'm not saying that Edelman is the better player, if anything Welker might be a borderline NFL HOF player but I'll say this as good as Welker was I would still take Edelman in a one game win or go home situation. |
|
|
|
WES WELKER
Oct 10, 2017 14:07:16 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 14:07:16 GMT -5
Who would be viewed as better if Lynch had scored and if the Falcons had kicked a field goal? If those things had happened, would Edelman not be the player he is viewed as today? Or, if Tyree hadn't been born? Or, Samuel hung on to the ball? If any of those things had happened, would Welker somehow be remembered as a better player than he was? None of those things had a darn thing to do with either receiver, but somehow their legacies are affected forever? one rule I live by is you know your losing an arguement when you throw out hypotheticals. I could do the same in Edelman favor. REALITY is Edelman was HUGE in helping win two Super Bowls. Welker was not. You have to play woulda coulda shoulda with welker cause he NEVER got it done. |
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 10, 2017 14:12:42 GMT -5
Who would be viewed as better if Lynch had scored and if the Falcons had kicked a field goal? If those things had happened, would Edelman not be the player he is viewed as today? Or, if Tyree hadn't been born? Or, Samuel hung on to the ball? If any of those things had happened, would Welker somehow be remembered as a better player than he was? None of those things had a darn thing to do with either receiver, but somehow their legacies are affected forever? one rule I live by is you know your losing an arguement when you throw out hypotheticals. I could do the same in Edelman favor. REALITY is Edelman was HUGE in helping win two Super Bowls. Welker was not. You have to play woulda coulda shoulda with welker cause he NEVER got it done. JE is great. He made great catches against ATL in the SB. But he also had three drops, and caught 5 of 13 targets Welkie had the better career I would take JE for 1 game as well. (not this year, he is out) Still, Welkie had the better career. maybe I will change my mind, JE is not retired yet |
|
|
|
WES WELKER
Oct 10, 2017 14:22:41 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 14:22:41 GMT -5
one rule I live by is you know your losing an arguement when you throw out hypotheticals. I could do the same in Edelman favor. REALITY is Edelman was HUGE in helping win two Super Bowls. Welker was not. You have to play woulda coulda shoulda with welker cause he NEVER got it done. JE is great. He made great catches against ATL in the SB. But he also had three drops, and caught 5 of 13 targets Welkie had the better career I would take JE for 1 game as well. (not this year, he is out) Still, Welkie had the better career. maybe I will change my mind, JE is not retired yet better career stats wise. Ask welker if he wouldn't trade those regular season catches for a ring. Also I was not answering the question who had the better career. I was answering if I had a team who would i take. I want the winner, the guy who comes thru in the clutch ..regular season or playoffs. |
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 10, 2017 14:29:38 GMT -5
JE is great. He made great catches against ATL in the SB. But he also had three drops, and caught 5 of 13 targets Welkie had the better career I would take JE for 1 game as well. (not this year, he is out) Still, Welkie had the better career. maybe I will change my mind, JE is not retired yet better career stats wise. Ask welker if he wouldn't trade those regular season catches for a ring. Also I was not answering the question who had the better career. I was answering if I had a team who would i take. I want the winner, the guy who comes thru in the clutch ..regular season or playoffs. Welkie came thru in the clutch always. he had a better playoff catch percentage than JE. he had a drop that no one can forget. JE had 3 in last seasons SB. You want the guy who also has missed 31 games in his career |
|
|
|
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 14:42:53 GMT -5
better career stats wise. Ask welker if he wouldn't trade those regular season catches for a ring. Also I was not answering the question who had the better career. I was answering if I had a team who would i take. I want the winner, the guy who comes thru in the clutch ..regular season or playoffs. Welkie came thru in the clutch always. he had a better playoff catch percentage than JE. he had a drop that no one can forget. JE had 3 in last seasons SB. You want the guy who also has missed 31 games in his career welker blew out his knee too, just happened on last game of year. I don't remember welker catching the game winning td in a super bowl. I don't remember welker making catch after catch in the greatest super bowl comeback ever. And you and tb12 keep saying Edelman drops....don't forget they didn't resign welker because he started dropping everything. |
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Oct 10, 2017 14:47:04 GMT -5
Welkie came thru in the clutch always. he had a better playoff catch percentage than JE. he had a drop that no one can forget. JE had 3 in last seasons SB. You want the guy who also has missed 31 games in his career welker blew out his knee too, just happened on last game of year. I don't remember welker catching the game winning td in a super bowl. I don't remember welker making catch after catch in the greatest super bowl comeback ever. And you and tb12 keep saying Edelman drops....don't forget they didn't resign welker because he started dropping everything. JE did not catch 8 of 13 balls thrown his way in the SB either way, I really like them both. I simply think Welkie had the better career stats wise, durability wise and also think Welkie gets into the Pats HOF. Not sure JE does. Welkie also borderline HOF. Edelman not |
|
|
|
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 15:48:30 GMT -5
welker blew out his knee too, just happened on last game of year. I don't remember welker catching the game winning td in a super bowl. I don't remember welker making catch after catch in the greatest super bowl comeback ever. And you and tb12 keep saying Edelman drops....don't forget they didn't resign welker because he started dropping everything. JE did not catch 8 of 13 balls thrown his way in the SB either way, I really like them both. I simply think Welkie had the better career stats wise, durability wise and also think Welkie gets into the Pats HOF. Not sure JE does. Welkie also borderline HOF. Edelman not omg welker has zero chance getting in NFL hall. There both going in Pat's. |
|
|
|
Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Oct 10, 2017 16:38:39 GMT -5
Welker's unique skillset, and Brady's ability to digest a defense as no other, revolutionized the Patriots offense into what has been since 2007 and continues to be now. There had never been a guy who was so quickly able to pick up on what Brady and Josh wanted to do. From day one, Welker saw what Brady saw from the defense like no one else, knew where he should be, got there, and made the plays. For 6 years, he did brilliant things from the slot position. No other player has been able to do that. Period. He caught more balls and took more of a beating than a player his size ever should have. Hell, he returned from his ACL tear just 8 months after surgery and played like it had never happened. It's very possible if Welker hadn't arrived when he did and transform the position into what it became, Edelman may never had gotten the chance to replace him. And you'll never convince me that pass you are calling a drop was thrown where it should have been. Welker was WIDE open. A good throw and it's a catch.
|
|
|
|
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 17:15:42 GMT -5
Welker's unique skillset, and Brady's ability to digest a defense as no other, revolutionized the Patriots offense into what has been since 2007 and continues to be now. There had never been a guy who was so quickly able to pick up on what Brady and Josh wanted to do. From day one, Welker saw what Brady saw from the defense like no one else, knew where he should be, got there, and made the plays. For 6 years, he did brilliant things from the slot position. No other player has been able to do that. Period. He caught more balls and took more of a beating than a player his size ever should have. Hell, he returned from his ACL tear just 8 months after surgery and played like it had never happened. It's very possible if Welker hadn't arrived when he did and transform the position into what it became, Edelman may never had gotten the chance to replace him. And you'll never convince me that pass you are calling a drop was thrown where it should have been. Welker was WIDE open. A good throw and it's a catch. its hilarious how everyone defending welker starts off by saying how great he was and then ends with oh it wasn't a perfect pass. So he is so great but please make sure it's a perfect pass cause if not he drops it. To funny. If he was as good as you claim that pass should have been easy. |
|
|
|
Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Oct 10, 2017 17:26:36 GMT -5
Welker's unique skillset, and Brady's ability to digest a defense as no other, revolutionized the Patriots offense into what has been since 2007 and continues to be now. There had never been a guy who was so quickly able to pick up on what Brady and Josh wanted to do. From day one, Welker saw what Brady saw from the defense like no one else, knew where he should be, got there, and made the plays. For 6 years, he did brilliant things from the slot position. No other player has been able to do that. Period. He caught more balls and took more of a beating than a player his size ever should have. Hell, he returned from his ACL tear just 8 months after surgery and played like it had never happened. It's very possible if Welker hadn't arrived when he did and transform the position into what it became, Edelman may never had gotten the chance to replace him. And you'll never convince me that pass you are calling a drop was thrown where it should have been. Welker was WIDE open. A good throw and it's a catch. its hilarious how everyone defending welker starts off by saying how great he was and then ends with oh it wasn't a perfect pass. So he is so great but please make sure it's a perfect pass cause if not he drops it. To funny. If he was as good as you claim that pass should have been easy. When a guy is that wide open, it's up to the greatest of all time quarterback to make a easily catchable throw, not make the receiver spin 270 degrees while moving 5 yards to his backside in a quarter of a second. |
|
|
|
Post by patmando on Oct 10, 2017 18:56:43 GMT -5
its hilarious how everyone defending welker starts off by saying how great he was and then ends with oh it wasn't a perfect pass. So he is so great but please make sure it's a perfect pass cause if not he drops it. To funny. If he was as good as you claim that pass should have been easy. When a guy is that wide open, it's up to the greatest of all time quarterback to make a easily catchable throw, not make the receiver spin 270 degrees while moving 5 yards to his backside in a quarter of a second. nice try with the 5 yards. The pass was slightly behind him. He had to turn to catch it that's all. He got BOTH hands on it...and dropped it. |
|
|
|
Post by seawolf on Oct 10, 2017 19:45:25 GMT -5
WW a great player
That pass was catchable
The difference between he and JE?
The sb catches
DA is a similar player
He also has great clutch PO & SB catches
And in today's world that makes the difference
HOF is life time production achievement
All 3 will be short on that
If we judge Brady as being GOAT for being 5-2
◇it seems inconsistent to judge WWE better
Being 18-1 costs WWE the HOF
, even tho he had nothing to do with
THE AS drop aND the helmet catcheck
Then add the drop
Simarly TB gets credit for Malcolm's INT
Just the way it is
|
|
|
|
WES WELKER
Oct 10, 2017 19:56:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by philskiw on Oct 10, 2017 19:56:57 GMT -5
No one going to say anything about muffed kicks? I'm too lazy to look up how many times they put it on the ground and didn't get it back.
|
|
|
|
Post by thejuice on Oct 10, 2017 21:27:44 GMT -5
nice try with the 5 yards. The pass was slightly behind him. He had to turn to catch it that's all. He got BOTH hands on it...and dropped it. These are the exact dimensions of an NFL field. The numbers are 12 yards from the sideline, and are 2 yards tall. The middle of the numbers are 13 yards from the sideline.  As Welker crosses the numbers, his step is exactly in the middle of the 3 in 30, he is at the 29 yard line. That means here he is 13 yards from the sideline. This also shows how wide open he was. The safety knows he was beat and headed downfield to try to prevent the score.  When the ball arrives at the 23 yard line, Welker has had to spin 270 degrees from the angle he was running, and is about 1/3 of the way between the bottom of the number and the sideline, meaning he is now 8 yards from the sideline and 5 yards behind where he was when he started his adjustment for the ball at the 29 above.  He dropped a pass he got both hands on and should've caught. Was it a perfect pass? No. Did it need to be? No. Was the pass much better than any wes walker rumpswab thinks? Yes. Did he foolishly lay out too early and thus make the catch way harder than it needed to be? Yes. Did he drop a catch he should've caught? Yes. Is that the opposite of clutch? Yes. Pretty simple. Doesn't mean he sucked by any stretch. He was a great player for us. But he tailed off at the end and he wasn't near as clutch as je11 or troy were at the end of their time here. All 3 were very good for us. But plain and simple. That was his fault and his drop. He should've caught it. If he makes that catch, we likely have 6 titles not 5. |
|
|
|
Post by patslifer on Oct 11, 2017 4:39:27 GMT -5
I love both Wes and Edelman. Both scrappy, smart and tough slot machines. Hard to choose over the other. On that Welker SB non-catch. It was a somewhat hard catch. Yes, Wes had to spin and elevate. Probably harder for Wes given his size. It could have been thrown better for sure. But in the end, it was a catchable ball that a NFL WR needs to catch. It happens. It's just the timing of it in the game. If that catch happened in the 1st quarter, no one would be talking about it now. Just like Edelman's amazing catch in last year's SB. If it had happened in the 1st quarter with the Pats up by 3 or whatever, it wouldn't stand out nearly as much.  |
|
