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Post by coolade on Oct 11, 2017 15:51:51 GMT -5
No guarantee they win the game if Walker makes the catch, by the way. Up 2, four minutes and change. Kick a FG up 5 with probably two minutes left. Would have been up to the defense. You think that's in the bag? I don't. They probably still lose. Would have needed a TD or at least another first down to assure a win. Nobody likes to take that into consideration. People just can't say if he makes that catch they win, yet they do all the time. Can they guarantee that on the next play the ball isn't turned over or a FG isn't blocked or missed? Off course not, that would ruin their blame game... Every time I hear a Pats fan blame Welker for the SB loss I link them to the same loser Cubs fans who blame Steve Bartman for the Cubs losing the World Series. Um... It's called win percentage. Make that catch and its like 99%.
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 16:27:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Oct 11, 2017 16:27:00 GMT -5
It was a good pass. You fail to see that for some reason. I'm not going to get into this old argument again. U see red. I see blue. It is what it is. I take both sides of this to some extent. It looked easier than it was for Wes because he did get both hands on the ball - and I do think he should have caught it. Especially because he was a go to player. THey have to make those plays. But TB could have made it a bit easier on the guy. I dont see it as black and white or blue and red. Maybe it depends on my mood!!!!! If Giselle hadn't thrown Welker under the bus with her asinine "Tommy can't throw it and catch it" comment, TFB likely would have diffused this entire argument by admitting it was on him. But by the time he met the media, it was too late. He couldn't lay it out without making her look bad. She is as good of an analyst as she is a doctor...
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Post by portfolio1 on Oct 11, 2017 16:37:45 GMT -5
I take both sides of this to some extent. It looked easier than it was for Wes because he did get both hands on the ball - and I do think he should have caught it. Especially because he was a go to player. THey have to make those plays. But TB could have made it a bit easier on the guy. I dont see it as black and white or blue and red. Maybe it depends on my mood!!!!! If Giselle hadn't thrown Welker under the bus with her asinine "Tommy can't throw it and catch it" comment, TFB likely would have diffused this entire argument by admitting it was on him. But by the time he met the media, it was too late. He couldn't lay it out without making her look bad. She is as good of an analyst as she is a doctor... Are you suggesting one could request her as your doctor?
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Post by TFB12 on Oct 11, 2017 16:54:40 GMT -5
Nobody likes to take that into consideration. People just can't say if he makes that catch they win, yet they do all the time. Can they guarantee that on the next play the ball isn't turned over or a FG isn't blocked or missed? Off course not, that would ruin their blame game... Every time I hear a Pats fan blame Welker for the SB loss I link them to the same loser Cubs fans who blame Steve Bartman for the Cubs losing the World Series. Um... It's called win percentage. Make that catch and its like 99%. You go ahead and continue to believe that, lol!!
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 17:25:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by thejuice on Oct 11, 2017 17:25:11 GMT -5
Um... It's called win percentage. Make that catch and its like 99%. You go ahead and continue to believe that, lol!! The odds would be been way in their favor but 99% is a bit much.
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Post by kjfitone on Oct 11, 2017 17:28:21 GMT -5
Very good episode! Welker was a great player and one of the toughest and most fearless to play the game. I hope he's going to be okay, he took a lot of punishment.
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 17:49:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Oct 11, 2017 17:49:49 GMT -5
Very good episode! Welker was a great player and one of the toughest and most fearless to play the game. I hope he's going to be okay, he took a lot of punishment. Doctor Giselle never diagnosed any concussions for Wes...
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 18:19:26 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by coolade on Oct 11, 2017 18:19:26 GMT -5
Um... It's called win percentage. Make that catch and its like 99%. You go ahead and continue to believe that, lol!! Or... Brady hits him in stride , does he score a TD? What is win % then ? Up by 2scores... Clearly that play was there to put patriots in over the top to win. Much more so since Brady failed on 3rd down too.. Brady2welker failed since the throw missed the tiny catch radius of a short armed undersized receiver running free downfield who's easier to hit at 5-7 yards where 90% of his catches were. That route was there to win the game. Fail. Facts. Truth hurts.
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Post by oklahomapatriot on Oct 11, 2017 18:26:27 GMT -5
I love both Wes and Edelman. Both scrappy, smart and tough slot machines. Hard to choose over the other. On that Welker SB non-catch. It was a somewhat hard catch. Yes, Wes had to spin and elevate. Probably harder for Wes given his size. It could have been thrown better for sure. But in the end, it was a catchable ball that a NFL WR needs to catch. It happens. It's just the timing of it in the game. If that catch happened in the 1st quarter, no one would be talking about it now. Just like Edelman's amazing catch in last year's SB. If it had happened in the 1st quarter with the Pats up by 3 or whatever, it wouldn't stand out nearly as much. I choose Edelman. because he had to learn the position, and that he made that catch in the last SB
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 18:37:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by thejuice on Oct 11, 2017 18:37:44 GMT -5
You go ahead and continue to believe that, lol!! Or... Brady hits him in stride , does he score a TD? What is win % then ? Up by 2scores... Clearly that play was there to put patriots in over the top to win. Much more so since Brady failed on 3rd down too.. Brady2welker failed since the throw missed the tiny catch radius of a short armed undersized receiver running free downfield who's easier to hit at 5-7 yards where 90% of his catches were. That route was there to win the game. Fail. Facts. Truth hurts. Yes fail on WW. Watch the play again. There were 3 defenders nearby. Brady put it right where it needed to be in between all of them. Perfect pass. no way. Should wes have caught it. 100%
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 18:38:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by thejuice on Oct 11, 2017 18:38:34 GMT -5
The photo 2 posts above this proves it all. Wes dropped it. Plain and simple.
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 18:43:58 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by coolade on Oct 11, 2017 18:43:58 GMT -5
Very good episode! Welker was a great player and one of the toughest and most fearless to play the game. I hope he's going to be okay, he took a lot of punishment. I remember Ryan Clark nearly decapitate him with hit to head that put Welker on his back.. Don't think it was a penalty at that time...
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Post by agcsbill on Oct 12, 2017 7:25:36 GMT -5
I love both Wes and Edelman. Both scrappy, smart and tough slot machines. Hard to choose over the other. On that Welker SB non-catch. It was a somewhat hard catch. Yes, Wes had to spin and elevate. Probably harder for Wes given his size. It could have been thrown better for sure. But in the end, it was a catchable ball that a NFL WR needs to catch. It happens. It's just the timing of it in the game. If that catch happened in the 1st quarter, no one would be talking about it now. Just like Edelman's amazing catch in last year's SB. If it had happened in the 1st quarter with the Pats up by 3 or whatever, it wouldn't stand out nearly as much. I choose Edelman. because he had to learn the position, and that he made that catch in the last SB You are definitely using recent memories versus a memorable past to make that judgement. That one Edleman catch is one catch, albeit coming at an extremely critical time in a game. Do we chose Tyree for that helmet catch over others? Nope! Look at all the amazing catches Welker HAS made in his career and people here are judging him for that one miss! You chose Edelman because he had to learn the position? What does that say about the player who made the position? As I said earlier, when talking heads talk about slot receivers the basis used for comparison is Welker. Folks say "Welker-like" not "Edelman-like".
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Post by rkarp on Oct 12, 2017 7:40:21 GMT -5
6 years with Pats and averaged hundred plus catches per season! 37 TD's in 6 years! 5 pro bowls 2 first team All pro 4 seasons top 10 total yards 3 seasons top 10 kick and punt return yards
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Post by salcon on Oct 12, 2017 11:57:12 GMT -5
Welker was a great receiver for the Pats no doubt. He was a first down machine. Some say a borderline HOFer. I think he makes it no problem after all, he defined the position of slot-receiver.
That said, in a big game I want Edelman and DA. I think Edelman is just more dynamic and dangerous with ball in his hands. DA has great hands and always seems to be open at crucial moments and almost always makes the catch.
Remember the Superbowl against the Seahawks and Edelman almost got his head taken off by Cam Chancelor? Everyone was questioning if he were concussed. He just kept going for extra yards after the hit. He's a wild man. I'd want guys like that on my team when it's for all the marbles.
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Post by jri37 on Oct 12, 2017 12:13:57 GMT -5
Welker was a great receiver for the Pats no doubt. He was a first down machine. Some say a borderline HOFer. I think he makes it no problem after all, he defined the position of slot-receiver. That said, in a big game I want Edelman and DA. I think Edelman is just more dynamic and dangerous with ball in his hands. DA has great hands and always seems to be open at crucial moments and almost always makes the catch. Remember the Superbowl against the Seahawks and Edelman almost got his head taken off by Cam Chancelor? Everyone was questioning if he were concussed. He just kept going for extra yards after the hit. He's a wild man. I'd want guys like that on my team when it's for all the marbles.Most receivers drop that ball or short arm that pass. Edelman is one of the gutsiest players the Pats have had in a long time.
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Post by thejuice on Oct 12, 2017 12:52:32 GMT -5
6 years with Pats and averaged hundred plus catches per season! 37 TD's in 6 years! 5 pro bowls 2 first team All pro 4 seasons top 10 total yards 3 seasons top 10 kick and punt return yards No one is saying that he wasn't great for us. If they are, they're fools.
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Post by thejuice on Oct 12, 2017 12:53:22 GMT -5
Welker was a great receiver for the Pats no doubt. He was a first down machine. Some say a borderline HOFer. I think he makes it no problem after all, he defined the position of slot-receiver. That said, in a big game I want Edelman and DA. I think Edelman is just more dynamic and dangerous with ball in his hands. DA has great hands and always seems to be open at crucial moments and almost always makes the catch. Remember the Superbowl against the Seahawks and Edelman almost got his head taken off by Cam Chancelor? Everyone was questioning if he were concussed. He just kept going for extra yards after the hit. He's a wild man. I'd want guys like that on my team when it's for all the marbles. Exactly how i feel.
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Post by croc on Oct 12, 2017 15:01:13 GMT -5
Welker was a great receiver for the Pats no doubt. He was a first down machine. Some say a borderline HOFer. I think he makes it no problem after all, he defined the position of slot-receiver. That said, in a big game I want Edelman and DA. I think Edelman is just more dynamic and dangerous with ball in his hands. DA has great hands and always seems to be open at crucial moments and almost always makes the catch. Remember the Superbowl against the Seahawks and Edelman almost got his head taken off by Cam Chancelor? Everyone was questioning if he were concussed. He just kept going for extra yards after the hit. He's a wild man. I'd want guys like that on my team when it's for all the marbles. Exactly how i feel. Ditto...I feel the negative stuff comes from him going to Denver after they pretty much told him make your deal. DA was signed immediately after, and was hardly popular until the SB 49 season. JE became stones & clutch. And DA has since become clutch when healthy, which fortunately has been during SBs 49 & 51. I respect all 3, and I'm glad we've had all of them...and so does TFB. WW still goes to the Derby with him.
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Post by pcm4 on Oct 12, 2017 15:01:13 GMT -5
If Welker makes that catch in the Super Bowl everyone in this thread thinks Welker is better than Edelman. If the Tyree catch and Butler INT don't happen, everyone in this thread thinks Welker is better than Edelman. I think Wes should have made the catch, but you can't judge a guy's entire career because of one play. I love Jules, but comparing him to peak Welker is ridiculous imo. Would you take Edelman over Moss? He didn't win a Super Bowl here either.
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Post by portfolio1 on Oct 12, 2017 15:26:26 GMT -5
If Welker makes that catch in the Super Bowl everyone in this thread thinks Welker is better than Edelman. If the Tyree catch and Butler INT don't happen, everyone in this thread thinks Welker is better than Edelman. I think Wes should have made the catch, but you can't judge a guy's entire career because of one play. I love Jules, but comparing him to peak Welker is ridiculous imo. Would you take Edelman over Moss? He didn't win a Super Bowl here either. Peak Jules is better (I believe) than peak Wes. He is a more dangerous player and makes more difficult catches. Wes was able to stay on the field... that has been one of the two biggest differences. THe other was THE catch Jules made in the SB and THE non-catch Wes made in the SB. With all the chips on the table Jules actually delivered maybe his best play while Wes could not pull off a not the easiest catch but not the most difficult either. Jules is not done so it is maybe premature to compare but I think it has been essentially what I am saying... Wes had wonderful consistency and durability over his 6 odd years. Jules was a more dangerous player and able to come up with amazing clutch plays that outshone Wes. So again, if both at peak I take Jules HANDS DOWN (pun intended, no [expletive] footing on this one as Jules catch was a real "feet" while Wes' non catch, while no walk in the park, was not a feet-ture on the highlight reels)...
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Post by patslifer on Oct 12, 2017 15:37:14 GMT -5
If Welker makes that catch in the Super Bowl everyone in this thread thinks Welker is better than Edelman. If the Tyree catch and Butler INT don't happen, everyone in this thread thinks Welker is better than Edelman. I think Wes should have made the catch, but you can't judge a guy's entire career because of one play. I love Jules, but comparing him to peak Welker is ridiculous imo. Would you take Edelman over Moss? He didn't win a Super Bowl here either. Peak Jules is better (I believe) than peak Wes. He is a more dangerous player and makes more difficult catches. Wes was able to stay on the field... that has been one of the two biggest differences. THe other was THE catch Jules made in the SB and THE non-catch Wes made in the SB. With all the chips on the table Jules actually delivered maybe his best play while Wes could not pull off a not the easiest catch but not the most difficult either. Jules is not done so it is maybe premature to compare but I think it has been essentially what I am saying... Wes had wonderful consistency and durability over his 6 odd years. Jules was a more dangerous player and able to come up with amazing clutch plays that outshone Wes. So again, if both at peak I take Jules HANDS DOWN (pun intended, no [expletive] footing on this one as Jules catch was a real "feet" while Wes' non catch, while no walk in the park, was not a feet-ture on the highlight reels)... +1 Don't forget that Jules got a very late start at the WR position. He didn't start playing it with any regularity until he was already in our system for a year or so. Wes did throughout high school and at a good football program (Texas Tech). Not providing excuses, but one has to consider context in what we see when judging the 2 players. Imagine if Edelman was a WR from the get go. Or, if Wes played QB and then transitioned to WR when he joined the Dolphins.
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Post by pcm4 on Oct 12, 2017 15:40:20 GMT -5
Peak Welker was 1st team all pro. Jules has never even made the Pro Bowl. Certainly not a definitive answer, but some food for thought.
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Post by portfolio1 on Oct 12, 2017 15:50:14 GMT -5
Peak Welker was 1st team all pro. Jules has never even made the Pro Bowl. Certainly not a definitive answer, but some food for thought. That is not a meaningful thing. At least not for me. At least not especially meaningful. In any case, they never asked me for my vote so forgedaboutit
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Oct 12, 2017 16:00:44 GMT -5
I think some of you have incredibly short memories when it comes to just how phenomenal Welker was. A couple of points this video makes. At the :30 second mark, Welker runs a similar route against Miami into similar coverage as the so called drop route, only Brady delivers the ball where it should be. Easy catch. Again at the 2:10 mark, he runs the same route against the Giants, only this time he is well covered. Brady still throws it to the correct side and Welker makes an amazing catch. Also, not once on this video does Welker ever have to spin 270 degrees, slide 5 yards backwards and sideways to 'get his hands in the ball'. That is a credit to Brady that he is so accurate, but also speaks to the pass in the Super Bowl being off target. m.youtube.com/watch?v=yioJTLumWlc&feature=player_embedded
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