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Post by patslifer on Oct 11, 2017 5:55:19 GMT -5
I like this one better......
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Post by agcsbill on Oct 11, 2017 6:06:18 GMT -5
Replace Welker with Edelman in the 2007 and 2011 Super bowls and the result is the same. Yep, neither plays defense for the Pats.
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Post by agcsbill on Oct 11, 2017 6:10:57 GMT -5
It's more then just stats. Pats down 10 to Seattle it's Brady and Edelman rallying the troops on the sidelines and huddle. Then he goes out and makes huge catches to fuel the comeback. Pats down 28-3 to Atlanta. Again it's Edelman rallying the troops and what a story this will be. Then he goes out and makes an incredible catch in the comeback. Where was welker when the Pat's were down or Denver? Edelman is a leader, a winner. Those are the guys you want in the tough times, in the biggest games. What the [expletive] you talking about? Pats won many of games because of Welker. Pats came back many games because of Welker. When Broncos were getting blown away by the Seahawks in the SB, Welker was one of the best, dependable receivers. Did you just start watching football the past couple years? Like Tex said, recent memories of success versus painful memories of the past. Welker did a heck of a lot when with the Patriots and is being judged on singular plays. Edelman had his drops, too, just not as memorable. It will take quite of bit of Edelman excellence to surpass Welker's 6 year run. Besides, when talking heads speak of slot receivers, whose name is brought up? Welker. They speak of a slot receiver being "Welker like" and Edelman is one of them. Welker revolutionized a position and will be always remembered for that and not for the singular plays this fan base seems to focus upon.
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Post by coolade on Oct 11, 2017 6:40:12 GMT -5
Replace Welker with Edelman in the 2007 and 2011 Super bowls and the result is the same. Yep, neither plays defense for the Pats. Kinda disagree on these 2 posts. The mcD-welkie offense failed miserably in 2007, then the drop in 2011. Look at above pictures. Edelman at least 2"taller, longer arms. Bigger hands. I'm 6-0 and I would have caught that ball. Welkie was like 5-7. Really small. You don't build your binky offense around a cast off player sorry. It's a nice story. Little guy plays with the big boys. . Brady and manning made him into a star because they were tall and could throw darts to him.
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Post by coolade on Oct 11, 2017 6:51:19 GMT -5
I love both Wes and Edelman. Both scrappy, smart and tough slot machines. Hard to choose over the other. On that Welker SB non-catch. It was a somewhat hard catch. Yes, Wes had to spin and elevate. Probably harder for Wes given his size. It could have been thrown better for sure. But in the end, it was a catchable ball that a NFL WR needs to catch. It happens. It's just the timing of it in the game. If that catch happened in the 1st quarter, no one would be talking about it now. Just like Edelman's amazing catch in last year's SB. If it had happened in the 1st quarter with the Pats up by 3 or whatever, it wouldn't stand out nearly as much. The picture is like a cartoon with a little dog jumping for a cookie that is just beyond its little mouth. Sorry if truth hurts. It hurts bad. I wanted him to catch that ball too. That first half was stressful. Safety.? What.? I was sipping kazis all amped up , come on ! First half ended with comeback drive. Yes!. 2nd and freakin 11. You need 1 first down to win the game. The drop. Then a scud on 3rd down. Ouch ..
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Post by muzwell on Oct 11, 2017 7:03:12 GMT -5
No guarantee they win the game if Walker makes the catch, by the way. Up 2, four minutes and change. Kick a FG up 5 with probably two minutes left.
Would have been up to the defense. You think that's in the bag? I don't. They probably still lose.
Would have needed a TD or at least another first down to assure a win.
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Post by ATJ on Oct 11, 2017 7:16:50 GMT -5
I love both Wes and Edelman. Both scrappy, smart and tough slot machines. Hard to choose over the other. On that Welker SB non-catch. It was a somewhat hard catch. Yes, Wes had to spin and elevate. Probably harder for Wes given his size. It could have been thrown better for sure. But in the end, it was a catchable ball that a NFL WR needs to catch. It happens. It's just the timing of it in the game. If that catch happened in the 1st quarter, no one would be talking about it now. Just like Edelman's amazing catch in last year's SB. If it had happened in the 1st quarter with the Pats up by 3 or whatever, it wouldn't stand out nearly as much. Just about sums it up in my opinion.
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Post by philskiw on Oct 11, 2017 7:17:50 GMT -5
No guarantee they win the game if Walker makes the catch, by the way. Up 2, four minutes and change. Kick a FG up 5 with probably two minutes left. Would have been up to the defense. You think that's in the bag? I don't. They probably still lose. Would have needed a TD or at least another first down to assure a win. Truth to this.
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Post by digger0862 on Oct 11, 2017 8:01:34 GMT -5
Replace Welker with Edelman in the 2007 and 2011 Super bowls and the result is the same. Yep, neither plays defense for the Pats. Nor did they play on the offensive line.
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Post by bostonsportsfan111 on Oct 11, 2017 8:16:05 GMT -5
These are the exact dimensions of an NFL field. The numbers are 12 yards from the sideline, and are 2 yards tall. The middle of the numbers are 13 yards from the sideline. As Welker crosses the numbers, his step is exactly in the middle of the 3 in 30, he is at the 29 yard line. That means here he is 13 yards from the sideline. This also shows how wide open he was. The safety knows he was beat and headed downfield to try to prevent the score. When the ball arrives at the 23 yard line, Welker has had to spin 270 degrees from the angle he was running, and is about 1/3 of the way between the bottom of the number and the sideline, meaning he is now 8 yards from the sideline and 5 yards behind where he was when he started his adjustment for the ball at the 29 above. He dropped a pass he got both hands on and should've caught. Was it a perfect pass? No. Did it need to be? No. Was the pass much better than any wes walker rumpswab thinks? Yes. Did he foolishly lay out too early and thus make the catch way harder than it needed to be? Yes. Did he drop a catch he should've caught? Yes. Is that the opposite of clutch? Yes. Pretty simple. Doesn't mean he sucked by any stretch. He was a great player for us. But he tailed off at the end and he wasn't near as clutch as je11 or troy were at the end of their time here. All 3 were very good for us. But plain and simple. That was his fault and his drop. He should've caught it. If he makes that catch, we likely have 6 titles not 5. Whatever, you see what you want to see. It didn't need to be a perfect pass, just a good one. Welker was open by 5 yards in every direction. Brady tried to touch pass it instead of ripping it, and he put a little too much air under it. It happens. Welker was sprinting forward at full speed at the 29 yard line facing in. In a 5 yard stretch (from the 29 to the 24) he had to basically come to a dead stop from the direction he was going, spin totally around, readjust his momentum and shift 5 yards to the side opposite he was facing, and keep his concentration on the ball while leaping fully extended just to get his hands on the ball. By the time he lands he is fully half way between the numbers and the side line. It was a hell of an effort he made.
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Post by rkarp on Oct 11, 2017 8:26:57 GMT -5
look. I really like both players. I am not going to put down either one, as they both are and have been great players for the team
yes, I think Welkie should have caught "that pass"
but I simply and not judging him on one play, but on a career. JE's career is not yet over. However, if it did end today, all things considered, I think Welkie the better player
I am going to back off on this thread now, as I see no reason to discuss if either player is going to be put down or denigrated
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Post by patslifer on Oct 11, 2017 9:38:29 GMT -5
The picture is like a cartoon with a little dog jumping for a cookie that is just beyond its little mouth Except the cookie hit the little dog in the mouth but he just couldn't secure it with his teeth. Happens I guess. I've seen my dog drop many a treat.
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Post by coolade on Oct 11, 2017 9:50:04 GMT -5
look. I really like both players. I am not going to put down either one, as they both are and have been great players for the team yes, I think Welkie should have caught "that pass" but I simply and not judging him on one play, but on a career. JE's career is not yet over. However, if it did end today, all things considered, I think Welkie the better player I am going to back off on this thread now, as I see no reason to discuss if either player is going to be put down or denigrated Very diplomatic post. Agree of course. You love the production, the toughness, all of it except the harsh reality of a limited catch radius. Simple fact that is highlighted in ultra-dramatic fashion in SB losing drop.! Please, the argument that the game wasn't lost is wrong. It was about clock and time outs. 3 more downs (plus the possibility of another 1st down) kill clock . Kick fg. Game over.
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Post by TFB12 on Oct 11, 2017 11:07:15 GMT -5
No guarantee they win the game if Walker makes the catch, by the way. Up 2, four minutes and change. Kick a FG up 5 with probably two minutes left. Would have been up to the defense. You think that's in the bag? I don't. They probably still lose. Would have needed a TD or at least another first down to assure a win. Nobody likes to take that into consideration. People just can't say if he makes that catch they win, yet they do all the time. Can they guarantee that on the next play the ball isn't turned over or a FG isn't blocked or missed? Off course not, that would ruin their blame game... Every time I hear a Pats fan blame Welker for the SB loss I link them to the same loser Cubs fans who blame Steve Bartman for the Cubs losing the World Series.
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 11:14:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 11, 2017 11:14:07 GMT -5
These are the exact dimensions of an NFL field. The numbers are 12 yards from the sideline, and are 2 yards tall. The middle of the numbers are 13 yards from the sideline. As Welker crosses the numbers, his step is exactly in the middle of the 3 in 30, he is at the 29 yard line. That means here he is 13 yards from the sideline. This also shows how wide open he was. The safety knows he was beat and headed downfield to try to prevent the score. When the ball arrives at the 23 yard line, Welker has had to spin 270 degrees from the angle he was running, and is about 1/3 of the way between the bottom of the number and the sideline, meaning he is now 8 yards from the sideline and 5 yards behind where he was when he started his adjustment for the ball at the 29 above. He dropped a pass he got both hands on and should've caught. Was it a perfect pass? No. Did it need to be? No. Was the pass much better than any wes walker rumpswab thinks? Yes. Did he foolishly lay out too early and thus make the catch way harder than it needed to be? Yes. Did he drop a catch he should've caught? Yes. Is that the opposite of clutch? Yes. Pretty simple. Doesn't mean he sucked by any stretch. He was a great player for us. But he tailed off at the end and he wasn't near as clutch as je11 or troy were at the end of their time here. All 3 were very good for us. But plain and simple. That was his fault and his drop. He should've caught it. If he makes that catch, we likely have 6 titles not 5. nobody said he sucked. Question was welker or Edelman. I would take Edelman. He MADE the plays.
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Post by TFB12 on Oct 11, 2017 11:16:22 GMT -5
its hilarious how everyone defending welker starts off by saying how great he was and then ends with oh it wasn't a perfect pass. So he is so great but please make sure it's a perfect pass cause if not he drops it. To funny. If he was as good as you claim that pass should have been easy. When a guy is that wide open, it's up to the greatest of all time quarterback to make a easily catchable throw, not make the receiver spin 270 degrees while moving 5 yards to his backside in a quarter of a second. That's been my argument all along too, Bostonsportsfan111. I'm the biggest Brady Ball Washer around but have no problem saying that had Brady hit Welker in stride, as the route was designed, It was a simple play. But with the bad throw, Welker had to stop on a dime, jump, turn 180 degrees in the air and try and catch a pass that is not only to the wrong shoulder but the pass is too high. Had the ball been a tad lower it would have been more catchable. Just a bad pass over all. Brady made a bad pass on the very next play to Branch that would have given them a first down too. Funny how nobody seems to remember that one.
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 11:21:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 11, 2017 11:21:55 GMT -5
Ok guys it's not one play. The one play exemplifies welker. Edelman was in two Super Bowls they won and Made TONS of plays to help in crunch time. Welker was in 3 Super Bowls and had no plays like that. He did have that one obvious chance...and dropped it.
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 11:24:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by patmando on Oct 11, 2017 11:24:04 GMT -5
When a guy is that wide open, it's up to the greatest of all time quarterback to make a easily catchable throw, not make the receiver spin 270 degrees while moving 5 yards to his backside in a quarter of a second. That's been my argument all along too, Bostonsportsfan111. I'm the biggest Brady Ball Washer around but have no problem saying that had Brady hit Welker in stride, as the route was designed, It was a simple play. But with the bad throw, Welker had to stop on a dime, jump, turn 180 degrees in the air and try and catch a pass that is not only to the wrong shoulder but the pass is too high. Had the ball been a tad lower it would have been more catchable. Just a bad pass over all. Brady made a bad pass on the very next play to Branch that would have given them a first down too. Funny how nobody seems to remember that one. yea nobody Remembers Brady's because he made so many great plays. Wes could have redeemed himself....but he never did.
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Post by TFB12 on Oct 11, 2017 11:31:08 GMT -5
That's been my argument all along too, Bostonsportsfan111. I'm the biggest Brady Ball Washer around but have no problem saying that had Brady hit Welker in stride, as the route was designed, It was a simple play. But with the bad throw, Welker had to stop on a dime, jump, turn 180 degrees in the air and try and catch a pass that is not only to the wrong shoulder but the pass is too high. Had the ball been a tad lower it would have been more catchable. Just a bad pass over all. Brady made a bad pass on the very next play to Branch that would have given them a first down too. Funny how nobody seems to remember that one. yea nobody Remembers Brady's because he made so many great plays. Wes could have redeemed himself....but he never did. Um, no... he didn't. Name one.
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Post by portfolio1 on Oct 11, 2017 11:49:53 GMT -5
Yep, neither plays defense for the Pats. Kinda disagree on these 2 posts. The mcD-welkie offense failed miserably in 2007, then the drop in 2011. Look at above pictures. Edelman at least 2"taller, longer arms. Bigger hands. I'm 6-0 and I would have caught that ball. Welkie was like 5-7. Really small. You don't build your binky offense around a cast off player sorry. It's a nice story. Little guy plays with the big boys. . Brady and manning made him into a star because they were tall and could throw darts to him. YOu had me then you lost me. I bet Jules make that catch. But Wes I think normally makes that catch too.... Where you lost me was Wes as a cast off player. The guy was GREAT. And by the way.... there have been some HOF players that were "cast offs". What happened before NE stays out of NE. What you do now is what counts. Not whether some dumb ass coaching staff didnt see how great you were. ANd just so you understand, there is a long list of special players (HOF and otherwise) who were cast offs... you cant start with Johnny Unitas. That one point should put that unfortunate comment to bed. Oh and by the way, there have been some great small players. It is not size or speed but the whole package that makes you a football player or not. Don't be going Gholston on us, OK?
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 12:07:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by thejuice on Oct 11, 2017 12:07:07 GMT -5
No guarantee they win the game if Walker makes the catch, by the way. Up 2, four minutes and change. Kick a FG up 5 with probably two minutes left. Would have been up to the defense. You think that's in the bag? I don't. They probably still lose. Would have needed a TD or at least another first down to assure a win. Truth to this. True but it probably made it an 85% or more certainty.
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WES WELKER
Oct 11, 2017 12:08:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by thejuice on Oct 11, 2017 12:08:33 GMT -5
He dropped a pass he got both hands on and should've caught. Was it a perfect pass? No. Did it need to be? No. Was the pass much better than any wes walker rumpswab thinks? Yes. Did he foolishly lay out too early and thus make the catch way harder than it needed to be? Yes. Did he drop a catch he should've caught? Yes. Is that the opposite of clutch? Yes. Pretty simple. Doesn't mean he sucked by any stretch. He was a great player for us. But he tailed off at the end and he wasn't near as clutch as je11 or troy were at the end of their time here. All 3 were very good for us. But plain and simple. That was his fault and his drop. He should've caught it. If he makes that catch, we likely have 6 titles not 5. Whatever, you see what you want to see. It didn't need to be a perfect pass, just a good one. Welker was open by 5 yards in every direction. Brady tried to touch pass it instead of ripping it, and he put a little too much air under it. It happens. Welker was sprinting forward at full speed at the 29 yard line facing in. In a 5 yard stretch (from the 29 to the 24) he had to basically come to a dead stop from the direction he was going, spin totally around, readjust his momentum and shift 5 yards to the side opposite he was facing, and keep his concentration on the ball while leaping fully extended just to get his hands on the ball. By the time he lands he is fully half way between the numbers and the side line. It was a hell of an effort he made. It was a good pass. You fail to see that for some reason. I'm not going to get into this old argument again. U see red. I see blue. It is what it is.
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Post by portfolio1 on Oct 11, 2017 12:18:03 GMT -5
Whatever, you see what you want to see. It didn't need to be a perfect pass, just a good one. Welker was open by 5 yards in every direction. Brady tried to touch pass it instead of ripping it, and he put a little too much air under it. It happens. Welker was sprinting forward at full speed at the 29 yard line facing in. In a 5 yard stretch (from the 29 to the 24) he had to basically come to a dead stop from the direction he was going, spin totally around, readjust his momentum and shift 5 yards to the side opposite he was facing, and keep his concentration on the ball while leaping fully extended just to get his hands on the ball. By the time he lands he is fully half way between the numbers and the side line. It was a hell of an effort he made. It was a good pass. You fail to see that for some reason. I'm not going to get into this old argument again. U see red. I see blue. It is what it is. I take both sides of this to some extent. It looked easier than it was for Wes because he did get both hands on the ball - and I do think he should have caught it. Especially because he was a go to player. THey have to make those plays. But TB could have made it a bit easier on the guy. I dont see it as black and white or blue and red. Maybe it depends on my mood!!!!!
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Post by muzwell on Oct 11, 2017 13:05:41 GMT -5
True but it probably made it an 85% or more certainty. Not sure how, when the Giants went right down and scored a TD right after that? If the Pats kick a field goal on the series after the Welker play, they leave the Giants too much time and there's a good chance they still lose. Only way they win for sure is with a TD or one more first down so they can run out the clock.
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Post by patmando on Oct 11, 2017 13:21:51 GMT -5
And welker isnt making that beauty of a pass to Danny hands in that comeback vs. the Ravens like Edelman did either!!!
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